Blinking Brakelights
Blinking Brakelights
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Good read here: (scroll to the very bottom of the page) http://articles.mbz.org/lighting/amber/
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Orange County, CA
E350
Good read here: (scroll to the very bottom of the page) http://articles.mbz.org/lighting/amber/
That is a very good summary!
I have always been a big proponent of amber turn signals, and that was one of the reasons why I did not (and will not) consider the 2010 W212, W204, or any other vehicle (MB or not) that has RED TURN SIGNALS. Sure they're LED, and sure they're bright... but they are situated so close to the brake lights (sandwiched between them) that it can be very confusing to the drivers behind you and cause their braking reaction to be delayed (in accidents, even milliseconds can count). VW's and Range Rover's current red blinkers are terribly designed as well... even worse than the W212's IMO!
The NHTSA's thinking (on this issue among other things... such as their mandated crash test conditions) is archaic, selfish, and unrealistic. In fact, much of the U.S.'s vehicle laws and conditions are unrealistic and/or outdated (such as CA's regulation on foglamp use only with headlights).
Actually, many things North American organizations do and regulate don't make much sense at all (or make "less" sense than changing)... the most predominant example I can think of is changing from the Standard System of Measurements (which only a few countries use, the U.S. being the main one) to the Metric System (which most of the rest of the world uses).
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From: Norcal
43
Eh, i've seen a good amount of w212's around lately, and i have not been confused between their brake lights and turn signals ever. Especially at night, when you see more LED's on one side than the other blinking? lol...
In fact, i've been staring at them in awe at how great they look. But i guess that's just me, and MB enthusiasts if i may be so bold to add.
In fact, i've been staring at them in awe at how great they look. But i guess that's just me, and MB enthusiasts if i may be so bold to add.
Out Of Control!!
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I used to be impressed by how "M-B-ish" the older models tail lights were, like the 211, where the bottom row was lit up for normal lighting, then the turns were amber, and the brake-lights engaged the large TOP half, very safety conscious, and makes use of the whole lighting structure.
Then the 221 comes out and only the tiny bottom row is lit up for both regular lighting AND braking, very unneffective and doesn't make use of that big lighting structure. The cars to follow got the same lazy approach.
Just chalk it up to things that I feel M-B has dropped the ball on. Full L.E.D's are cute and all, but clearly some cost saving had to counter the extra costs of them, as the lighting units in terms of delegating different actions to different areas on it have actually gotten much simpler.
Then the 221 comes out and only the tiny bottom row is lit up for both regular lighting AND braking, very unneffective and doesn't make use of that big lighting structure. The cars to follow got the same lazy approach.
Just chalk it up to things that I feel M-B has dropped the ball on. Full L.E.D's are cute and all, but clearly some cost saving had to counter the extra costs of them, as the lighting units in terms of delegating different actions to different areas on it have actually gotten much simpler.
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Joined: Oct 2009
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From: Sweden
W166 ML350 BT
Still it's strange why they bother to make a different version for the US market when the row version would have worked fine, even better...
I remeber it was a lot of anger at the E60 forum when the facelifted BMW 5-series got from orange to red turn signals in the US.
I remeber it was a lot of anger at the E60 forum when the facelifted BMW 5-series got from orange to red turn signals in the US.
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Out Of Control!!
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Orange always seemed "Euro" to me too. Red looks cleaner, as it monotones the colors essentially, but definitely can't be safer. Given a choice, I'd say Orange would win out to me personally in terms of what I'd prefer.
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Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 518
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From: Orange County, CA
E350
I wonder the same thing, as it would cost more for MB to purchase lower volumes of both colored LED bulbs from the supplier than one larger volume of a single-colored LED bulb. If the LED bulbs are pre-built into the tail light housing (as I suspect), then it's even MORE COSTLY for MB, as now they don't only have to worry about 2 little bulbs, but 2 completely different tail light housings (all due to different blinker colors). Also one must factor in the additional cost/hassle/effort into separating, assembling, and controlling 2 different part numbers meant for several different countries as well (one wrong shipment could spell disaster for a vehicle production line).
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 518
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From: Orange County, CA
E350
IMO I don't think it would be a big issue, as 2 vehicles (1 with red blinkers, 1 with amber) would look exactly the same with the blinkers OFF (the blinker lens is clear for both tail light assemblies). The only time you would notice a difference is when the blinkers are lit... which is exactly the time you WANT cars around you to notice your blinkers. If amber blinkers gives my vehicle a higher visibility to other drivers (whether 5% or 50% more), then those are the blinkers that I want.
And honestly, I think amber blinkers look MUCH BETTER than red since all blinkers (front, mirror, rear) would be the same color (amber). I personally think that mis-matched blinkers (amber front/mirror + red rear) looks extremely tacky... like a guy wearing a lime-green shirt with a pink & brown striped tie.
Last edited by chokaay; Mar 9, 2010 at 08:47 AM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Yeah agreed. I dunno what the 221 S-Class has (can't remember), but I know the lighting of the (pre face-lift at least) tails is pathetic to me. Giant structure, yet only the thin little bottom row lights up, even for brakes! Why don't they still use that top half as the proper "WARNING! I'm Braking!" effect. The bottom tiny LED's just get a smidge brighter when you apply the brakes as it is, a backwards step from the previous generation.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 518
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From: Orange County, CA
E350
Yeah agreed. I dunno what the 221 S-Class has (can't remember), but I know the lighting of the (pre face-lift at least) tails is pathetic to me. Giant structure, yet only the thin little bottom row lights up, even for brakes! Why don't they still use that top half as the proper "WARNING! I'm Braking!" effect. The bottom tiny LED's just get a smidge brighter when you apply the brakes as it is, a backwards step from the previous generation.
The S-Class wasn't the only one that did that... the current SL, C, E... basically all recent "face-lifted" or changed cars use their tail light LEDs as brake lights too (ie: no completely separate brake light). However you are right, the S, SL, and a few others only utilize the bottom bar in the whole tail light assembly, which "wastes" the upper portion. Looks a little "classier", but utilizes less "real estate" which MAY potentially help reaction time from drivers behind you (no testing has been done to my knowledge).
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 27
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From: Socal
'07 E92 328i, '10 E70 X5 (Wife's)
I used to be impressed by how "M-B-ish" the older models tail lights were, like the 211, where the bottom row was lit up for normal lighting, then the turns were amber, and the brake-lights engaged the large TOP half, very safety conscious, and makes use of the whole lighting structure.
Then the 221 comes out and only the tiny bottom row is lit up for both regular lighting AND braking, very unneffective and doesn't make use of that big lighting structure. The cars to follow got the same lazy approach.
Just chalk it up to things that I feel M-B has dropped the ball on. Full L.E.D's are cute and all, but clearly some cost saving had to counter the extra costs of them, as the lighting units in terms of delegating different actions to different areas on it have actually gotten much simpler.
Then the 221 comes out and only the tiny bottom row is lit up for both regular lighting AND braking, very unneffective and doesn't make use of that big lighting structure. The cars to follow got the same lazy approach.
Just chalk it up to things that I feel M-B has dropped the ball on. Full L.E.D's are cute and all, but clearly some cost saving had to counter the extra costs of them, as the lighting units in terms of delegating different actions to different areas on it have actually gotten much simpler.
+1
I used to associate this unique feature as being strictly European; one bulb/cluster for the night time taillight and a 2nd bulb for the "brakes applied" light. To me, this is a better way of distinguishing taillights from a "hey, I'm stopping" situation.
Especially on the 221, it doesn't make any sense to me at all that MB would not utilize the upper portion of the taillight cluster for anything...it's just dead reflector space
My older (07) BMW still has the dual function setup, but as of late, the 5 and 7 redesigns are heading toward this single LED stoplight/regular taillight function. Seems like everyone is heading toward this fad after Audi first started it
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Socal
'07 E92 328i, '10 E70 X5 (Wife's)
And honestly, I think amber blinkers look MUCH BETTER than red since all blinkers (front, mirror, rear) would be the same color (amber). I personally think that mis-matched blinkers (amber front/mirror + red rear) looks extremely tacky... like a guy wearing a lime-green shirt with a pink & brown striped tie.
Mismatched turn signal lights look VERY domestic IMHO. GM and Ford come to mind with the orange fronts, side markers in the mirrors, and then the RED rear turn signals. Looks tacky...
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
+1
I used to associate this unique feature as being strictly European; one bulb/cluster for the night time taillight and a 2nd bulb for the "brakes applied" light. To me, this is a better way of distinguishing taillights from a "hey, I'm stopping" situation.
Especially on the 221, it doesn't make any sense to me at all that MB would not utilize the upper portion of the taillight cluster for anything...it's just dead reflector space
My older (07) BMW still has the dual function setup, but as of late, the 5 and 7 redesigns are heading toward this single LED stoplight/regular taillight function. Seems like everyone is heading toward this fad after Audi first started it
I used to associate this unique feature as being strictly European; one bulb/cluster for the night time taillight and a 2nd bulb for the "brakes applied" light. To me, this is a better way of distinguishing taillights from a "hey, I'm stopping" situation.
Especially on the 221, it doesn't make any sense to me at all that MB would not utilize the upper portion of the taillight cluster for anything...it's just dead reflector space
My older (07) BMW still has the dual function setup, but as of late, the 5 and 7 redesigns are heading toward this single LED stoplight/regular taillight function. Seems like everyone is heading toward this fad after Audi first started it
Yeah, I just can't get over the W221's structure, pretty ridiculous IMO, huge lighting structure, but most of it is dead space when it comes to lighting. W221 E, W220 S, etc. have literally use from all areas of the taillight.
The face-lift 221 S I think makes use of the whole structure if I'm not mistaken, but it's now either fully lit up (like a Christmas tree mind you), and when the Brake is pressed, it just lights up brighter, better than before, but still could be more clever IMO.
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Joined: Jan 2011
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Anybody know where I can order this Euro version with amber blinker? I am shipping this vehicle in less than a month and this red blinker light is illegal in other country and will be rejected during inspection.
Thanks for the help in advance.
Thanks for the help in advance.
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Joined: Jul 2008
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FJ Cruiser/E350
Exactly what I was thinking. I think it looks great. Plus, not really a big deal to me either way.
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
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From: Canada
2011 E350 4Matic Estate in Mystic Red
The NHTSA's thinking (on this issue among other things... such as their mandated crash test conditions) is archaic, selfish, and unrealistic. In fact, much of the U.S.'s vehicle laws and conditions are unrealistic and/or outdated (such as CA's regulation on foglamp use only with headlights).
Super Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 519
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From: Chicago and NorCal
Titleist
Perhaps I'm driving without noticing such turn inicator colors, but I can't think of a new, mid size, mid market car with amber lights. I will have to be more observant on the way home this evening.
