kingofire

I had a day off today from my real job and since i own a garage, I spent the better part of monday morning there and decided to do an oil change. I used a K&N oil filter(KN-7004) and 8 quarts of Royal Purple 5w40.

Let me tell you the difference is amazing. The car is a lot smoother, quieter and the car accelerates a lot more freely. When I bought the car I had this annoying lifter tick at idle which was more evident if I turned the music off. This is now resolved and there is absolutely no ticking at all.

I just started this thread to let all you MBworld.org W212 owners know that there is this oil out there that will smooth your engine out and give you a buttery smooth ride while giving your car the maximum protection it needs.

Disclaimer:- Anybody who will not keep this motor for over a 100,000 miles does not need to spend money on "boutique" oils as any dealer oil be it Mobil 1 or whatever will sufficiently protect the engine by following mfg. recommend oil change intervals(10,000 miles or 1 year).

htn75

Any hints on the DIY oil change? This is my very first Merc. Thanks

kingofire

Well you could make it very easy if you buy a Mityvac or a Shureflo system. You just put a suction tube thru the dipstick housing and let the suction take over. What makes this an easy oil change is the fact that the oil filter is on the top! Just lift the front lid of the engine bay and the oil filter is on your right. Just make sure you replace all 3 "O" rings, and you are done. Since we are on the filter topic, I used the K&N this time but the next time I just ordered a Mahle oil filter since it has a better seal. It is that simple and I did it in 15 minutes tops.

When I do change this oil out in a year, I will be getting a used oil analysis and will post it in this thread!

mg-E550

What is/are differences between royal purple and mobile 1? Thx for posting this

qarl

So no bottom drain plug? Top access only?

What are the part numbers for the o-rings?

qarl

Oh... and two thumbs up for Royal Purple... use it on my Lotus and my previous 911. Same for their transmission oil.

kingofire

Royal Purple is made from "true" synthetic base stock which is a Group IV synthetic. Group IV synthetics are classified as PAO's which stands for Polyalfaolefins. These are man made synthetic in a labratory and the oil molecules are uniform in structure. They last longer, burn cleaner and leave little to no deposit. Since MB requires a 10,000 mile interval or 1 year, these are perfect to use. Royal Purple's claim to fame is their patented "synerlec" additive that is touted by Royal Purple to increase horse power, increase film strength(improved high pressure performance) which indirectly decreases friction and lastly micro polishing property. Micro polishing is important because it reduces drag in an internal combustion engines. When you look at camshafts after using royal purple motor oils for a while, you will notice that they have a "mirror" finish to them. By polishing the shafts they tend to run smoother and decreases drag and friction, hence running cooler. Here is a picture to illustrate the micropolishing aspect of Royal Purple.


As for Mobil 1, it is now considered to be made from Group III basestocks. Group III basestocks are severly refined conventional oil. They also run cleaner in a combustion engine but obviously not as pure as Group IV basestocks. Since the molecules are not linear/uniform, the film strength is not as good as those from Group IV. With that said, I believe that Mobil 1 0w40 and 5w40 basestocks are made from Group IV aka PAO. Why do I think this? First the price of buying either weights is more money than their other flavors. Secondly looking at their product data sheet, their pour point is insanely low, something like -45 degrees or so. To achieve this low of a pour point no highly refined conventional oil can accomplish this so I have to believe that it is a PAO based. Unfortunately Mobil will not divulge information on what they use for basestocks and emails have been futile as all they will tell me is that it is proprietory information.

Hope this helps.

kingofire

You can use the bottom drain plug if you like. The pain in the *** part is that to access the drain plug you have to remove 6 or 7 nuts that hold the cover in place. It just makes the oil change a little more cumbersome and longer. So I just use the Shureflo system. No need to worry about changing the drain plug gasket as it doesn't come into play. The oil filter kit comes with all the gaskets(o-rings) and it is accessible from the top. It is in the front of the engine cover. Just lift the front hinged engine cover and look to the right. You can't miss it.

mac911

The problem is Royal Purple iS NOT approved by Mercedes-Benz.

One's engine would probably be ok, but you could have warranty issues, as it is NOT 229.5 spec.

I'd at least stick to spec during the warranty period.

Royal Purple told me that to meet spec you have to even buy your additives from a specific source.


Even after warranty, I'll probably stick with Mercedes spec only.

The one thing I will say for Royal Purple. I have seen oil analysis of the product. They certainly do put more additives in the oil than most on the shelf products, so the money is buying something extra, just not sure if it's worth it/needed, especially when not approved.

Eurosport

you know how much it costs to even go through the approval process? it's not worth it for Royal Purple and other small companies...

220S

There are a lot of very good (and expensive) boutique oils out there. RP, Amsoil, Brad Penn, etc.. All will have pics and testimonials that prove they have the better product. And maybe that nice purple color will make your mind tell the rest of you that your motor's now running smoother than it ever could with any other oil in the world.

This has been going on since the dawn of time.

fwiw, one caveat is the concern of high ZDDP levels and modern day cats. e.g., one reason AMG recently went to 5W-40 M1 with their M156 motors is due to their current emissions systems. It has less ppm of ZDDP than 0W-40 M1, but AMG and M1 both feel protection is more than enough and yet at the same time the cats won't be damaged. (Plus the oil has more resistance to acidic moisture due to higher content of ethanol in current US fuels.) It's always a trade-off. Components change, fuel changes, EPA rules change, etc., etc..

Pick your poison. None of it will kill you. Or your motor.

As for a Mercedes, the engine will outlast the car anyway. You'll be dumping the car for a lot of other reasons, and not because of a bad motor from the oil you choose. I'll give anybody $100 if they can prove that their motor died or lost performance prematurely due to a particular brand of modern motor oil.

BPhillyBenz

Thanks King - Good info.

petee1997

Amen....My car always runs better after it's washed, must be the soap.

JoeVal

Sorry to bust the balloon, but Shell GS58, a refined fossil oil that was available at least since 1957, had a pour point below -40 degrees and a fairly flat viscosity curve. This was discontinued due to limited use vs high cost to process, however it was superior to synthetics with big stabilizing molecules which started to wear out in six months of use.

On another vein, I appreciate the reported micropolishing action of Royal Purple plus an extended list of additives in it but, what is the result of minerals -specially metals, sulfur and water- in the oilways at the time of changing motor oil? I'm not sure I want those extra filings floating around the engine and pump. As for corrosion protection, that's why I'd like to see an analysis of the used oil.

kingofire

mac911-Yes Royal Purple is not approved for MB 229.5 spec but this is because they don't want to pay to get the testing done and pass on the costs to the potential customers who now pay more per quart. For "boutique" oil companies this is considered suicide. I pay $7/qt to get Royal Purple 5w40. It is expensive as it is, no need to price it out of people's price point. People buy boutique oil's not because it meets specs but because they know it will exceed them. Plus I change my own oil, if I have a oil related issue, I assure you MB will never know I used out of spec oil.

220S-I agree with you in a sense that Mobil 1 or any approved MB 229.5 oil will protect my engine well after other parts of the car are falling apart and/or corrosion takes place(very hard to do on German cars). It is well known that MB engines are very durable and bullet proof that many don't know because they associate MB with Chrysler. The problems with MB's have always been that it is the other areas of the car that start falling apart and it does take an arm and leg to fix.

I have tried pretty much every oil that I have been able to get my hands on and I can tell you without a doubt that Royal Purple has this unique ability not only to quiet an engine but the motor seems more responsive. Another thing I have noticed is that Mobil 1 0w40 actually makes my motor sound harsher and louder. This is not just a phenomenon that happens to me but a LOT of people on other forums have experienced also including bobistheoilguy.com a dedicated site for motor oil nerds(yes I am one too).

It is true that ZDDP will and may reduce the life span of modern cats but I personally believe its only true for older cars. Older cars have a lot more blow-by combustion waste that can burn oil and lead to evaporation of phosphorus thru the cats. One thing people neglect to mention is that in a modern day engine it is hard to poison cats because base oils are better, ring seals are better, tolerances are very narrow and blow-by is all but none. Without blow-by and lack of phosphorus purge thru the solenoids and out thru the cat there is very very small to nil chance that you can poison cats. Granted engines last forever nowadays but if I want to err I will want to err on the side of the catalytic convertors rather the engine.

I honestly don't buy boutique oils because they are better at protection but I buy it because I honestly do see a difference in how my engine sounds and performs. A lot of people call it a placebo effect but I am known to be **** about cars and engines and I go as far as going for an hour drive with radio off and I'll will just listen and understand how my car is performing, not just the engine but the whole car.

Sorry for the long answer!

JoeVal- I hear you about shell oil but I look at the values in a whole to configure why I believe that Mobil 1 0w40 is a true synthetic oil even though I only gave you one parameter. For example it is also BMW LL-01 approved. BMW's require an oil to meet their standards so it can endure a 15,000 mile oil change intervals. There is no conventional oil no matter how refined it is to become Grp. III synthetic that can handle 15,000 OCI's. It also meets Porsche approval list 2002. It also meets probably the toughest standard being the European standard and their longer drains since oils in europe costs an arm and a leg to begin with. This standard is ACEA A3 B3/B4.

Here are the values from the Mobil 1 0w40 from their PDS
Mobil 1 0W-40 ValueViscosity, cSt (ASTM D445) @ 40º C75@ 100º C13.5Viscosity Index185MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684)31,000HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683)3.8Total Base Number (ASTM D2896)11.8Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874)1.3Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981)0.1Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92)230Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052)
0.85

As for the micropolishing aspect of Royal Purple oil, the micropolishing particles are so tiny that you would not be able to see them under 100X magnification loop but more importantly they would not be able to breach the insane film strength that Royal Purple is so brash and proud to display in their Seq IVA test(4 ball scar test). It is a bogus test when it comes to "real life" performance of the oil but it does prove that it has a stong film strength. As long as the oil filter does its job anything else left in the oil itself will have no consequence on the engine as it is not able to penetrate the film strength of ANY oil as long as it meets API requirements.

As for used oil analysis, I agree. I get an oil analysis done on every oil change I do and my first oil change in about an year will be no exception. I love reading the report and see how my engine is doing. I am intrigued though as to how you would find corrosion protection from an used oil analysis.

Jon2007E63P30

So gents. EDIT (It's late and I missed that this is NOT the W212 AMG forum... I am sorry. The below is for AMG M156 engine)

The oil is 229.51 requirement.

there are 2 and 2 only.

Mobil1 0W-40 European Formula
Mobil1 5W-40 ESP (Emissions Systems Protection)

Anything other than this leaves you in Warranty trouble if it comes up.

Having said all that, I do not believe that many other oils may be as good or better than Mobil1,.

I have 61K on my E63 using the 2 oils above. Never a problem.

Changing the oil is like any OLD car except the plastic panels under the car and the 9qts of oil.

The oil filter should be removed FIRST. There is a valve which opens and drains the filter oil. Techincally there is also a drain plug on the cooler, but I have never heard of anyone opening that.

I have personally changed the oil on my car 6 times. I am the "old man".

220S

fwiw, I was on bob the oil guy forums for a long time until it just got so esoteric and ridiculous that it wasn't worth reading anymore.

I do a UOA with every change (either with LN Engineering or Blackstone.) I've owned many oil/air cooled dry sump motor P-cars (964 and 993) and currently still own a 993. I used to use dino oil back when syn was evil and bad The old original Kendall racing oil, the green stuff from the Bradford pools, and then Brad Penn (reportedly from the same pool.) A few top end jobs on those motors but due to valve guide material and not the oil. Scoping always showed everything nice and clean. And always changed the oil after every big track day anyway. Car performed very well on whatever brand of oil it was eating at the time. Never could tell the difference in performance based purely on oil. Etc., etc..

Modern syn oils are excellent. No motor will die using any poison you feel like using. This oil stuff goes on ad nausea and has been for decades; and every car forum in the universe. After a while it's just like, who really gives a sh*t anymore. Oils and manufacturer's recommendations/approvals change constantly. EPA rules change constantly. Fuel changes constantly. Etc., etc..

fwiw, the issue with cats and ZDDP and the switch from M1 0W-40 to M1 5W-40 was something AMG announced not too long ago. It was their (and Mobil's) conclusion, not mine. Which is why I posted it as a 'fwiw' caveat.

I drive a car with the 6.2L AMG motor. Tappets are quiet with M1 and will still be indiscernible even if I switch to a boutique oil. How quiet is already quiet? Exhaust from the N/A V8 is nice and loud compared to the V6 and so I won't hear anything anyway.

Keeping tabs on my UOAs and the OCIs will be my guide to my oil decisions. Plenty of additives in modern syns and I can get tired quick of paying $6-7 a can for any extra additives that are debatable as to their necessity. Kinda like a lot of products out there, not only motor oil. In the meantime I'll use the 229.51 approved (M156) M1 oil.

Like I said the boutique oils are very fine oils. RP, Amsoil, Motul, Redline, etc.. I just don't need them personally. And neither does anybody else and particularly in respect to driving everyday grocery getters that are barely driven hard. But hey, although I know I won't die drinking a Bud Light, that small batch micro brewed red ale certainly does taste a helluva lot better.

Cheers.

kingofire

220S, I agree, BITOG has gotten a bit esoteric AND ridiculously dumbed down but I have made good friends there. I pay Terry Dyson good money to analyse my UOA's and he told me to not put Mobil 1 0w40 in my E350 because it somehow shows a lot more wear metals in MB's. He sent me a lot of "confidential" data points via powerpoints and charts that show this very well. He wanted me to use either Castrol Syntec 0w30(German Castrol), Royal Purple 0w40 or 5w40 or Red Line 0w40. I decided to go with Royal Purple 5w40.

I do agree with you in a sense that any spec'd oil for this car will work and give me years of trouble free experience. I just prefer Royal Purple because I can get it for the same price I'd pay for Mobil 1 0w40 or Mobil 5w40 Formula M.

220S

fwiw, my last UOA says "surprisingly very little wear metals." Whatever.

The problem with "confidential" data points is that, well, it's confidential.

If people could come up with black and white conclusive statistical data that one modern high quality oil is far superior over another modern high quality oil, then that producer would have hit the jackpot. The fact is, no one can. Hence we have dozens of oils to choose from, contentious forums like btog.com, and numerous labs all contended to be under "better" API guidelines and testing rules than anyone else on the planet. And a dozen companies all marketing their motor oil as the Holy Grail of all oils.

Everybody and their monkey has proven that XYZ oil is the best and also the worst. Just like every good quality commodity out there; it has to be marketed as the best. What other choice is there? How about: "Use our Golden Liquid Snake Oil, the second best oil in the world."

Whether it's expensive water from remote virgin springs or expensive oil with additives only known by a few rare chemists in the world, bottom line is use what you feel good about.

EDIT: just for the record, and so you don't get me wrong, I have nothing against any of the boutique oils. They are all excellent motor oils and I've used all of them in the past including RP.

My car is still under warranty and the 6.2L motor is an expensive proposition. I will use the approved oil if for that reason alone. M1 is still a quality oil, and I can guarantee my motor will no doubt last longer than the car itself, nor will the performance be diminished in any way whatsoever by using any of the current 229.51 approved oils.

RT66BOB

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON RED LINE PRODUCTS?

Dema

Picture is amazing, it looks like the oli increases life of your engine twice or more. I wish doctors made something like that for our body motor.

kingofire

Could you post the UOA? Do you use Blackstone Labs for analysis? I ask because whenever I see their comments on top, half the time I laugh because they say some of the stupidest things in their comments section.

I am very **** when it comes to wear metals. This is one reason I use Terry Dyson as a source. I used to have abnormally high iron levels in my Acura TL well at least by my standards(Iron was in the 20's at 7500 OCI's). Terry told me to change out the air filter from Honda to a Fram and that the wear would come down significantly. According to him Honda's tend to restrict air flow with their own air filters and this can cause a spike in Iron. Well lo and behold, the next OCI at 7500 miles my Iron level was at 7. So I tend to listen to him.

I understand what you mean by confidential data. It irked me too when people would post UOA's with confidential information and wouldn't tell us what that was. Now I understand why he does it. You just have to talk to him and it all makes sense.

This is my last reply to you as I don't want to go back and forth about oil as it is similar to talking about religion, no one ever knows who is right and who is wrong. Obviously you are doing things that is working for you and I whole heartedly agree that if you use MB spec'd oil the engine will probably outlast the whole car. I do things differently because I love to try new oils and how the perform and it keeps my hobby fresh and exciting. Thats all there is to it. I love listening to my engine and the feedback I get from it leads me to make my own choices.

I am glad there is another "oil" guy to go back and forth with.

kingofire

Red Line is a top notch company. I have talked to Dave the head tech at Red Line in California numerous times and he is as straight shooter as a person you'll find. There is never anything left to guess when it comes to Red Line. Nothing is proprietory information to them. I am leaning towards using Red Line 5w40 or 0w40 the next change. Being that I am a "thick" oil guy, I will probably go with the 5w40. Their add pack is amazing and you can't find a more shear stable oil right now. Red Line is very much like Royal Purple in a sense that their oil really smoothes out the engine as well. They use high levels of molybdenum(anti-friction) compound and it shows in real life applications. The only down side is the cost. RL 0w40 is at $10/quart right now. The 5w40 is not far behind at $9.50/qt.

Use it and your engine will run like a sewing machine.

vicv

Just went to change the oil in my wife's 2010 E. Pulled the splash panels like our 2004 and . . . no drain plug. Found out on the internet that it's a top-drainer. Ok, done and did. But how do we DIYers reset the service maintenance monitor? Nothing in any of the literature with the car, I couldn't find the pdf file online and the car kept its secret even though I did quite a kabuki dance on the computer. Any suggestions?

Many thanks!

220S

Here you go...