ferrariyellow44

I am an Audi owner as well as a MB owner, I was just on an Audi forum and everyone always considers MB's to be of lower quality than Audi and BMW.

I just dont get it! My MBs have been far more reliable and better built than my Audis, granted Ive never owned a BMW, mainly because they're for *****, but thats besides the point. So why do people always say this??? Am i missing something!

michael10128

MB had severe quality issues from 2000-2003 at least the ones i owned were garbage. Takes a long time to change perception, look at jaguar..

LawRens

Audi forumers refer to Benz's reputation when it was at its lowest, aka the early 2000's, just as michael10128 mentioned. Compare the quality now, and problems per 100 vehicles.

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story....ct=most_depend
Take a look at the 2011 stats; a lower number is better. Mercedes is #8. Where is Audi? Ah, yes, #20.

http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/ne...spx?ID=2010034
How about 2010? Figures remain consistent for Benz and Audi.

Don't get me wrong, I like Audi, especially during their recent years. But Audi still trails at #3 compared to BMW and Benz. If i recall correctly, Audi, a LUXURY SPORTS automaker, still uses the cheaper front wheel drive platforms for their entry level models? And its owners have the audacity to call a Benz a cheaper car?

EmE247

Who cares what Audi forum members say...?

Now if I had a yellow Ferrari...

Tai230K

Possibly the Audi forum you were on is predominantly out of the states as other countries regard Audi as higher than Mercs.

This is how I rank it:
1) Mercedes
2) BMW and Audi

Europe:
1) Audi
2) BMW and Mercedes

But BMW are for ***** so I regard it close to Subaru drivers.

park423

my 2003 E320 was a big pain, 2010 ML had some bugs, the 07 ML was fine and 2010 E550, so far so good

Wig

My 2005 Audi A6 was a POS. Was very happy to see it go. After that I vowed never to get another Audi. The Audi dealers here are both arrogant and ignorant. The lack of product knowledge is truly remarkable. They also claim to be short of product, and use this as an excuse not to discount.

By contrast, my 2010 E350 has been flawless so far, and the dealership experience was much better.

Now, if only I could afford a 2012 CLS550 4Matic.....

Arrie

I used to think Audi quality is as good as MB until I bought my first MB and realized that what the MB dealer said is true; They are Wannabies both Audi and BMW.

I have driven all of these and no question MB quality is the best and way ahead of Audi's.

Just listen how the door sound when you close it between the cars, or the hood and then wonder how is the rest of the cars built.

Arrie

Where did you get this info?

It is no way Audi is ranked higher than MB in any European country. Audi is more popular simply because it is cheaper to buy and maintain but for quality nobody ranks it better than MB.

A good example of how MB is appreciated is that there are a lot of companies in Europe that do not allow their employees to lease any MB model as their business vehicle, period. They do allow Audi and BMW but MB is a big NO. They think it would send a wrong message to their customers if their employees were driving MB lease cars as it would send the message the customer is paying too much for their product.

CharlyE500

Audi is the most unreliable car ever build and to fix that car sometimes you need to remove the whole front bumper. Not only the parts are expensive, the intensive labor charge. To do the same repair for Mercedes might take only 2 hours but Audi 4 to 5 hours plus very hard to diagnostic. BMW was also nightmare. I had a 745Li beautiful car but in 6 months of time, went to dealer for 10 times and spent $6k. Too many sensors going crazy. If you have a 5 years old BMW, you better prepare to spend some $$$

hyperion667

wow, I am actually happy to hear so many lame opinions about audi.....
I have never liked audi and didn't even consider oneand never really would,
I have seen many a freind over the years with audi's and was never really excited about it for them.....LOL.....
makes me feel good to know our cars are held in high regard
I do really enjoy both of mine

PHML

My 02 ML320...quality was poor...this was due to the merger of Daimer/Chrysler...which led to lower quality materials to cut costs.

Since then...I think MB's quality has grown to levels before the merger.

As for my VW Touareg, which shares the same technology as Audi...it sucks. I've has so much problems with it...and thus the reason to sell it.

ferrariyellow44

Glad to hear everyone agrees! Now I like my A4 and the quality is satisfactory, but the MBs are far superior in just about every way. To be honest, I would buy another Audi just because of how great Quattro is in the snow. Thats pretty much the only thing Audi has on MB. Quattro>4matic

Im just so tired of every forum, except this one, ragging on Mercedes quality from the early 2000's.

mnje350

I had a 1999 Audi A6/2.8 bought new. Beautiful car and I loved the way it handled. I always felt it was under powered and the audio, despite being a Bose system, was very flat.

Besides a high number of warranty issues which were handled with class by the dealer, I had to replace both rear wheel bearings, speed sensors for the brakes, one of the front ones broke when they replaced the rotors, and numerous other small items that ended up costing me 600 or 700 bucks every time I went to the dealer. The problem that annoyed me the most was the LED display fading within about 20 miles of the warranty expiring. Granted I had about 120k miles when I got rid of the car, I still think there were a high number of issues for a "high quality" auto. I am hoping that my Benz holds up better.

I can't say that I am overwhelmed by the quality of Audi. At least the turn of the century models I sold the car in 2005 and did not buy another one. Never the less I loved the ride and handling of Audi. Not better than Benz though. I suppose you can get a bummer of any of the six German brands though.

B6JoeS4

lol, some heavy biases towards MB here. As far as those rankings, that really depends on what you rank them on. For popularity right now, I would say it's Audi>Mercedes>BMW. It used to be BMW at the top but both Audi and Mercedes have stepped up their game over the past few years. BMW used to be the go-to d-bag mobile. Now, unfortunately I have to say that the squiggley little LED's on the new Audis are attracting all of the d-bags.

I'm an Audi guy. I have 12,000 post between multiple Audi forums. I am heavily involved and very well versed in pretty much anything you want to know about Audi. The 04-06 A6's are a reliability nighmare for whatever reason. The new S4's are running 12's with bolt-ons but they sound like go carts. RS4's are breaking into 11's with just NA bolt-ons. I am not going to go saying the Audi is the best and all other suck. I'm sorry that someone told you that. Let me know what forum that is on. Unfortunate with the new squiggley LED's, Audi is attracting some young punks that think their new audi is that cat's meow. It's really polluting the brand the same way BMW owners did with the 335. You do have to admit........early 2000 Mercedes are a nightmare to own without a warranty. However, there are some Audi models in the same boat(think 99-02 2.7tt S4).

I honestly can't think of where Mercedes stands right now. The problem with Mercedes is the complete lack of aftermarket support on all levels. Even on AMG models, the aftermarket support is pitiful and absurdly over prices. I know you guys won't agree with me because you are on a merceds forum now, so you don't see it like that, but unfortunately 90% of mods on this forum are wheels and exhaust. This platform needs a hero! Someone do something crazy and void your warranty. That's what makes a good enthusiast car. I think that mercedes knows they don't really have much of an enthusiast base which is why almost every single E on the road is the same. There are no crazy colors, and almost no wheels to pick from when buying a new benz.

The one thing that I notice about mercedes, is that they really are made to be a confortable car. The E550 under-steers like a fat pig on a slippery hill. However, it's an improvement over previous models. The other thing I noticed is the steering feel; or lack there-of. And what's with the gas pedals on these things? It's like the are brain-dead. I feel like I have to wait a few seconds for it to respond to heavy throttle input, but you can blame that on CAFE bull****. Power is good, brakes are good, comfort is good, refinement is great, handling and steering need some work.

BMW is kind of a dying fad. I test drove a new 550 with my dad when he was in the market, and I thing they REALLY missed their mark in multiple ways. Even with the M package, the steering wheel is like holding onto a straw. The ride is absolute unrefined garbage and the engines are noisy (but so is this new e550 4.6 we have). The new M5 is a catastrophe. 7200 rev limit and the stock turbos are already anemic on a stock tune - anything over 6000rpm. It's a modding nighmare too and they put the turbos and the cats in a perfect place to heat soak the hell out of the engine.

MBCLS550

After a blown fuel injector, blown exhaust manifold, and numerous electrical/engine problems, I was left with a "sour taste" from my 2009 Audi A4. I sold it due to the headaches and bought my W212 E-class. I have to say I believe Mercedes' quality seems like it exceeds Audi as far as reliability but sometimes I do miss my Audi. I do love the A5/S5 as well as the R8 models.

I agree with B6joe in regards to the aftermarket offerings with Audi though, but in the least offensive way I feel Mercedes owners are more mature buyers whom buy the cars stock and prefer to keep it that way. Other than the AMG sport packages I think that a benz with an aftermarket body kit, tuning, etc. just looks gaudy and overdone/out of place (of course there are exceptions). On the other hand, if there were more "affordable" tuning&customization options, perhaps it could stir some interest and introduce some competition in the marketplace.

vladsf

I don't like any cars now days, whether it is mb, bmw or audi. Just got S4 in January and sold it (on dashboard central console, some areas weren't sanded and you still can see those rough lines from manufacturing process, wtf? next is door rubber trim fall off). Also hate my E63, I guess I made a mistake by getting it right when it came out, it is a total mess. Somehow I noticed due to the economics and high competition automakers: mercedes, audi, bmw don't introduce all features on purpose in order to offer something each year. So E63 2009 in terms of amenities is superior over 2010.. But now I see Mercedes is finally offering suede headliner, leather dashboards, etc. next year I bet they will offer rear door shades, rear climate control, electric closing side mirrors. Just like the iphone, they keep introducing small features every half a year or so in order to feed manufacturers and employees. I am sure they could offer everything tomorrow, they are capable. But we have to suffer since something new is coming before you left the dealers parking lot in your brand new car...

K-A

Tell 'em to get their heads out of the water. Audi's biggest problem is their notorious unreliability. BMW's have been heading downward recently as well. M-B's had their a$$es kicked from the late 90's to the mid 2000's, but their new offerings are so on point, that even with some older models dragging them down still, in overall Reliability charts, M-B is still ahead of their competitors, and closing in on Lexus. When the older models get phased out, we should see higher ratings across the board.

listerone

Having owned both a BMW and a Benz,but never an Audi,my experience with the BMW over 30K miles was pretty good and so far with my Benz (6K miles) it's good.My two Infinitis (total 80K miles) were absolutely bulletproof and while they were nice cars they were totally boring.I'll take excitement and an ocasional service visit over reliabable and boring any day.

gohan

my audi was flawless (6 years of ownership), even with all the mods i put in. I sure miss that car...

the bwm was horrible, i had to fix so many problems during my short but super exciting ownership. And since it's a ///M, the repairs & parts doubles that of a regular 3 series

cant say anything about the benz yet, its only got 400miles so far

my ranking(For now)

AUDI/MB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BMW

sotomd

I had an A6 2006 for 5 years and there were no quarter of a year without going to the shop. Once Audi gave me one month lease payment due to tranny problems (CVT jerking). The car was stopped for more than a month in the shop, many audi tech examined the car from Audi oA. After that issue the care never drive as new. Many sensor problems.
Now I drive a 2010 E 350 sport with pano and was in the shop at 10,000 for oil change. It currently has 17,000 and no problems.
I am very happy with my Benz, also I have a SLK 2008, no problems at all.

CEB

These are the ADAC (German Automobile Assn) breakdown statistics for "upper middle class" cars.

B6JoeS4

I'd like to see how our new E550 does as far as reliebility once the milage gets up there. It's got a lot of things against it....

-Direct Injection
-Two Turbochargers
-Accessories that can shut down when not in use (alt, ps pump, a/c comp.)
-Airmatic

Every manufacture has their bad models and certain issues with certain things. BMW has issues with fuel pumps, and audi has issues with CVT transmissions, but I don't think that those are things that should be counted against the brand as a whole. You can't look at just one thing that fails all the time and say BMW is bad. They just have an issue with fuel pumps.

To me, an unreliable car is a car that has frequent different issues. One thing failing repeatedly is just a bad supplier or an engineering error.

El Cid

Scanned a Consumer Reports the other day and they had reliability predicitions for 2012 cars on a single chart. E350 has dropped from previous much above average to slightly below average. However, survey is limited to CR subscribers who own E350's and sent in the survey. TrueDelta shows E350 with pretty good numbers. Never put much stock in JD Powers-they survey way too early after car purchases.
Regardless, no European car is as reliable as an Asian car and I often wonder why not.
As for popularity, I live 25 miles from the BMW factory and still see more new M-B's on the road than BMW's. And this includes the "factory" cars that employees use as daily drivers.
SC no longer allows manufacturers license plates due to PR reasons, so all factory cars have regular plates.
However, the local paper (biased?) has couple of reports per month on how great BMW sales are and how they are kicking other German manufacturer's butts.
Still, I think M-B has about 2% of market compared to about 1% for BMW and about .5% for Audi.
Ironically, some of the least reliable vehicles for European and Asian companies are the ones made in the USA.

Lot of reliability problems relate to all the high tech items in cars now. IMO, M-B's vast number of different models and different variations of each contribute to overall reliability issues.
Regardless I like my car, but cost to own and maintain will always be the downside. That's why I never purchased an M-B when I was driving 60 miles per day.

Live Oak

There is another factor in this "reliability" thing.

After spending nearly $70K on a new car, I will much more likely squawk a minor rattle or peculiar behavior or strange engine noise, which will trigger a "repair" hit. I just won't stand imperfections. And MB always helps with loaners to make it all easy.

OTOH, with a $30K Japanese car, I'll overlook a lot of stuff, if only because my expectations are lower and I hate the the time involved, not to mention a chincy dealer policy on loaners.

So, IMO, the "reliability" measurements are skewed in favor of the lower priced cars simply because of owner expectations and behavior.

(Of course, my last Japanese car, a $40,000 2005 Toyota Avalon, was a disaster: blown engine twice, once with oil all over the road; tranny dying; power door locks dying @ $450 each; wouldn't hold alignment, ruining tires --- and I'm a very conservative driver. "Gee, he said, maybe I ought to get a MBZ!")