Avilly

Jack McCarty

NO PANO FOR ME . . .
I totally agree about the negatives of MB
Pano roofs. They add 200 lbs of weight OVER the center of gravity. As a direct result, Pano wagons drive weirdly because they’re top heavy & often make popping & creaking sounds as the bodies flex over curbs & potholes. Headliners often have been removed to find the rattles & clean the drains.
Sunshades don’t block the heat & road noise
is more pronounced. Pano glass is ONLY
tempered, NOT laminated, with risks of exploding glass - see Consumer Reports
verdict on pano roof dangers. MB regular sunroofs are terrific / in owning 5 MB’s with
classic SR, i’ve never had issues. Recently, I test drove a 2011 E Wagon with Pano @ MB Stevens Creek / San Jose. The CARFAX showed 3 service appts. for noise & leaks UNDER 30,000 miles! Finally, the Headliner had to be pulled out for repair under warranty.
MB: this is not the best / it’s NOTHING!

Mr.Fly

You’re too hard on pano roofs. Yes, they creak, but I solved my creaky pano roof with help from a YT video in about 30 mins and some hand tools; it’s not difficult. The car that went in three times wasn’t done right, and that isn’t the pano roof’s fault. And a little extra weight on top isn’t ideal but it isn’t crazy either. It’s still much better than a raised car, such as any SUV, and the W212 isn’t a sports car anyway.
The advantage of a pano-equipped car is that one can have a fairly bright cabin, especially if the interior is dark colored. The feel of the vehicle is bright, airy and cheerful with the pano shades retracted during the day. Dare I say it’s at least halfway to a convertible? It is subjective, and YMMV.
BTW, none of your car’s glass, except for the windshield is laminated. The pano roof isn’t, but neither are the side windows.

Avilly

Hey Mr. Fly, can you share the YT video you used? My whole roof was replaced by MB (warranty) and after about 1.5 years it started to pop again. Thanks!

retna7

Anyone know the proper torque specs for the bolts?

Headliner really isn't that hard to drop.

Basically two massive holes in the headliner itself make it easy.

Just take your time and carefully remove the trim.

Took mine out to add alcantara.

Hardest part was getting the headliner out of the rear passenger door, a step that's not required to tighten the bolts.

Mr.Fly

Try . It's an amateur video, so you'll probably need to be somewhat handy and improvise as you go along. However, this was the video that guided me along.


My workshop manual* says 7Nm (5.16 ft-lb), for the "Screw/bolt, panoramic roof frame to front/rear bracket". There is also a "Screw/bolt, panoramic roof frame to body" at 10Nm (7.38 ft-lb). 10Nm is the highest torque figure on the list for "Panoramic roof". In practice, I torqued the bolts up snugly with the palm of my hand, because I couldn't use the torque wrench due to the lack of space (only lowered the headliner). I will say it felt more than 10Nm, but it could have been the awkward angle. Nevertheless, the roof has not creaked again, and has never leaked, so I consider that a success.

* The workshop manual is from here, which I found out from Alex from LegitStreetCars. Alex has a 25% off code, good until June 7th: ALEXEMOMAY.

cetialpha5

Also when doing the repair, use loctite so the bolts don't loosen again.

The official MB repair manuals are the WIS which you can buy a knock off copy on eBay for about $6.60.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Latest-2019-Mercedes-WIS-ASRA-EPC-Service-Repair-Workshop-Manual-Full-version/123679649919

Otherwise MB sells access for $60 for 24 hours of access.

https://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/subscribe.jsp

retna7

fiveeleven

My 2014 E63s started to make noises from the pano roof when going up inclines at an angle at around 40k miles, and then steadily got worse from there. I'm at 50k now and I got to the point where a bumpy road would make noises. Always sounded like the glass panel was going to crack. After reading this thread and watching the video, I did the repair last night and it took about 2 hours... most of which was spent trying to get my fat hands in the tiny space to get at those bolts.

A few things I learned:
* To pull the grab handles off, just slide off the retaining plastic bit with a small flat blade screw driver, and then push on the handles towards the outside of the car. They will pop off easily.
* There are lots of sharp metal bits on the other side of that headliner. Be careful so you don't slice up your hands
* Use locktite and then give it a good 15 minutes to cure before driving around and trying out the roof repair
* I pulled the crap out of the headliner and it looked pretty deformed during the middle of my repair, but it snapped back in place and didn't break. So don't be too shy about yanking on it as needed. As stated in the video, the several velcro bits will make a terrible tearing noise as you're pulling the headliner away, but rest assured nothing is actually ripping
* All 6 of my bolts appeared to be on tight when I got to them, and it took a bit of cranking to get them loose. I was a bit worried that maybe it was something else since the bolts were on tight. But I loosened them up, put locktite on, and screwed them back in and tightened the crap out of it. (There's no way my torque wrench would fit in there, so just hand tightened). Happy to say, no more noise, so it's definitely from these bolts.

Thanks to deadcivic for posting that video and previous posters for their helpful comments. Was able to do this myself and saved me obscene amounts of money from having to visit the dealer.

FireBall

Thanks DEAD CIVIC,

I followed your video/advice and solved the popping sound issue in roof of my AMG E63. I used the same tools and it took about two hours, as you stated. The popping noises are now silent; hopefully for good.

Cheers!

Rehabguy

First things first. As many other posters before me, thank you so very much for making that video, Dead Civic/ 666Miguel99. I watched it multiple times before I finally pulled the trigger and went at this job.
My '14 E63 (34K) started making the infamous "Pano Pop" about 3K ago. It got to the point that it would make noise by simply driving over uneven pavement. So, followed the instructions on the video and improvised as I went along.

This video helped with a tip about removing the roof handles. 666Miguel99 has a separate video on how to remove them, but it is absolutely unnecessary to stick a screw driver and pry the tabs. Simply twist outward after the securing tabs have been removed. BTW, the plastic that the securing tabs are made of is sorta soft. They get marred even with with plastic panel removal tools. Be somewhat gentle with them.
After watching this second video, be thankful you don't have to do this job on a wagon.

I purposely threw all the bolts back in soaked in Loctite and let them "cure" over night. I reassembled the whole thing 14 hrs later. I too felt most of the screws were in there pretty tight.... Specially the rear most ones (which I strongly suspected were the culprit). For me, it was the forwrd two screws on the passenger side that felt the most loose.

I just want to add: I am not sure you really have to remove the C pillar trim. For me, when removing the SRS tabs, a bit of the tab broke off on both sides. After removal, I wasn't really able to make my roof liner come loose as 666Miguel99 did on his video. I think this job can be done without having to mess with this step. Fortunately, the SRS tabs clicked back in very positively in spite of the parts that broke off.

And, lastly, I found that using this low profile rachet was a life saver https://www.ebay.com/i/382648949115?...SABEgJFP_D_BwE. I was completely unable to get a traditional rathet (as suggested in the video) in the space to remove the rear most screws.

Thank you again and best of luck to others out of warranty taking on this task.

Stuttgarten

I'm going back to this older thread as I plan to tackle this pano sunroof noise problem this weekend. It's gotten really bad. For those who did the repairs themselves, I have a few questions which are not clear in this entire thread.

1. Do sun visors have to be removed, mine is not a wagon?
2. Do all roof handles; left and right need removing?
3. Do I need to remove A,B, and C pillars? And does this apply to both passenger and driver's sides?
4. Video referred to 3 bolts that needed proper torquing, but other threads said there were 6, what is it?
5. Confirm that liner need not be totally taken down.

Thanks a lot.

cetialpha5

Didn't have to touch the sun visors.
Yes, the roof handles on both sides need to be removed.
I believe you are referring to the B pillars which is the one in the middle between the doors. The bottom piece doesn't need to be removed, just the top pieces.
There are two sets of bolts, one of the 3 is in the middle and the other 3 is in the back. There's actually a few more that have that blue tint on them, but I don't those need to be tightened but I did those anyway.
You don't need to totally take the liner down, just loose it enough so that you can pull down a couple inches which is all you need to reach the bolts/screws with a ratchet. As in the video it's surprising that it's just held up by Velcro. When you're done, you just push it back up again and it's like new.

I just put loctite on the screws before putting them back in but it hasn't been that long so we'll see how long it lasts. It's nice that it now doesn't make any noise going over ramps and certain potholes.

Rehabguy

1. No
2. Yes
3. Only B pillar top 1/2 covers need to be removed (as stated above). Refer to my post above for why not try and mess with C pillar. Yes, both driver's and passenger's sides.
4. 6. 3 on each side.
5. Liner is not totally taken down.

It isn't a difficult job. Again, refer to my response above and order that small ratchet (if you don't already own one). It'll make your life a whole lot easier, and for me, I wouldn't have been able to complete the job w/o it.

fiveeleven

The above fix is definitely worth your time. Just a follow up that it's been almost a year since I fixed the roof by redoing the bolts with LocTite, and it's still quiet after 9,000 miles.

Stuttgarten

Today, I spent about 1.5 hours doing the job and used Loctite, waited 6 hours for it to cure, but no luck, popping noise not gone. I tightened those bolts real hard, so not sure what to think.

Rehabguy

That's very unfortunate. When I performed this "procedure" on my own car I went over the YouTube video posted by 666Miguel99 (about 20Xs) and all comments I read were positive. Are you sure you re-torqued the screws pointed at (refer to min 3:13 om linked video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bstJ...ature=youtu.be

Stuttgarten

Yes, I torqued all six screws using a T30. There are no other screws as these are very obvious. I didn't use torque wrench, but I tightened them using a small Craftsman ratchet with an extension on handle.

nota_amg

You should use a torque wrench. There is a reason they have a torque spec. Too loose or too tight can cause noises.

Rehabguy

Is the popping sound exactly the same as before "the fix"?

Rehabguy

I agree with that, but space is VERY tight. It was pretty tough getting a small ratchet in there.

retna7

There's two more screws in the front....right at the A pillar.

Is the popping noise in front of you or behind you when you're driving?

Stuttgarten

You probably could get a torque wrench in the center and rear areas, but front might be very hard unless you find a way to lower liner further which could entail removing sun visors. But what torque value would I use. Also can I unscrew screws where Loctite was used?

Popping sound is coming from center area where screws were not that tight when I removed them yesterday. And yes, noise heard is the same as before.

UPDATE: About 30 minutes ago, I drove to store and car didn't make that popping noise. Last night it was. So, this situation as of this moment is very fluid.

cetialpha5

Wasn't paying attention to the torque spec, just put them on really tight. I just figured the noise was from the flexing of the body. If they're on tight, no more flexing of the body.

Stuttgarten

I can report that roof noise didn't occur today. I'm trying to figure out why noise occurred only once after repairs, but that was it. I have a theory and I'm curious what you guys think. Is it possible that pano sunroof was out of place prior to repairs. Once repairs were done, it was under pressure to go back to original right position, and movement up and down my driveway, helped it snap back in place. And now since it's positioned correctly, noise is not repeating. Just a wild guess!