K-A

About Run-flats I'll say this:

Where my W212 (on 18's mind you) would make me cringe through certain bumps and potholes, my Bimmer (on 19's) will sometimes comparatively more-so glide through them. Where some bumps I'm used to would bring lots of tire chatter into the cabin on the W212, my car now brings a far more muted sound.

So if Runflats really do still suck, then I can't imagine how well this car would handle bumps with "normal tires".

So either it's simply superior suspension engineering (most likely scenario), but I have NO issues with the Runflats on my car. If they really do still suck as much as they supposedly do, then I would love to see just how well this car handles bumps even without the Runflats.

Moral of the story is: Either Runflats have greatly improved OR they've forced those who use them to over-engineer their suspension so much to the point where you can't notice the drawbacks of Runflats anymore.

MB-JIM

I'm not talking about the ride, I'm talking about getting stranded.

Wig

K-A - I'm not au fait with the different suspension options on the F10. Which suspension do you have, and what were the other choices?

BenzE350

Yes, runflats have improved significantly over the years, but they still no not ride or handle as good as traditional tires. They are also more expensive.

Obviously with all the time you spend on Bimmerfest, you know this is a major topic on the forum. Lots of owners have swapped them out.

K-A

I'm just learning about them myself. From what I understand they were mostly electronically "controlled", and you'd have to get different tech options to change things up. Then I recently learned that for 2013 M SPORT cars only, there's a dedicated "M Sport Suspension" that's all steel and no tech at all (from what I understand, a first in the F10 535i range). I think whatever they did with it is better than what I'd felt from the previous 535i's.

Over smooth roads it might come off as a little more appropriately stiff and tight than the W212 as the W212 rides pretty much sublime for a Luxury Car on smooth roads, but over any kinds of bumps, the suspension/tire/chassis combo on this car just really outdoes the W212.

If anyone recalls, my biggest issue, and at times only big issue against the W212 was how horribly it rode over bumps, which was extra annoying due to the juxtaposition with how greatly soft and luxuriously appropriate for an M-B Sedan it rides over smooth surfaces.

K-A

That's what I mean. BMW owners HAAAAAAAAATE the runflats. But coming from a W212 Sport with smaller wheels AND no runflats, this car glides over road imperfections much more smoothly and quietly. I can only imagine without runflats now....

alloutmk23

K - A - In your eyes you will always have made the best decision. Your car will always be the best.

You contradict yourself endlessly...even though you think you don't..you really do. Go to the bimmer forum dude. No need to justify your decision to us...your always gonna think your right anyway.

I deal with clients like you everyday. I feel bad for them.

No need to sit at your computer for an hour to reply with a thought out "witty" paragraph justifying your comments, to lift your spirit and protect your reputation. Because you can't bulls*it a bullshi**er.....Especially one who runs a company like mine.

Glad u like ur Bimmer dude....ciao.


Sorry mods I couldn't hold it in....that's all

BenzE350

Agreed. My number one complaint on my E350 sport was the horrible harsh ride over any road imperfections. Many folks on this forum disagreed with me.

K-A

I'll do you one better.

In my eyes I always make the best decision. Before it was the W212, and now it's the F10. Sorry if that upsets you. Experiences will vary, maybe you'd hate the F10. Also sorry that upon learning new experiences my views may show different patterns. I wish I could still say my heavily modded '98 Mustang was the best looking car out there, that would show true character.

Same. I started a thread that grew to be pretty huge called "Disappointed in the suspension characteristics of the W212" or something like that. So although people here will try and convince themselves that I'm just trashing the car, I was ALWAYS the most vocal opponent of the W212's suspension characteristics over rough roads.

BM2BZ

i thought this thread is about 2014 facelift. probably better to make a new thread for w212 vs f10 or others .

MB-JIM

I certainly agree that it is about time to stop the arguments with KA. He needs to move to the BMW forums and quit bashing MB's. This reminds me about someone who has converted to a new religion and wants to drag everything along with him.

I didn't mean to digress by bringing up run flat tires but should have pointed out that spare tires will still be in the 2014 W212 gas models.

hyperion667

golfster

It is about the facelift. Synopsis:

• A long-term MB loyalist initially saw the 212 and wasn't immediately sold by the design.
• Being a long-term MB loyalist, he continued with his appreciation for the brand and eventually overcame his differences with the design.
• He eventually purchased the 212, and grew to love it (except for the harsh ride) foolishly thinking, in MB tradition, the MB would remain true to tradition and true to the design, keeping it in production for 7 years without major change (the usual facelifts, yes, but not an abandonment of the design within that 7 years.
• MB, apparently losing desired sales momentum and perhaps marketshare, decides the 212 design might not be accepted by the masses of MB loyalists, breaks tradition and radically redesigns the car mid-cycle, far more than previous facelifts, essentially removing the "touch with tradition" that MB introduced with the pontoon fenders and other elements.
• Realizing MB was more concerned with "design language of today" and less concerned with satisfying the loyalists, the previous stalwart determines it's time to take the single-brand glasses off and look at other brands.
• Also realizing this new face lift will, assuming MB reverts to tradition, be around only 3 years, he surmises the buyers of the facelift will again be impacted by the model change to the 213 (or whatever) in just three years, prematurely dating both 212 and 212.2.
• In essence, MB discarded the loyalist, and the loyalist sought to satisfy his desires elsewhere, visiting a BMW dealership.
• Discovering there is more than one German brand in the mid-size/mid-range premium automobile market, the former MB loyalist sees and falls in love with the BMW 535, and decides to cast his dollar ballot in favor of that car by acquiring a fine sample.
• Now, unlike some of the board members, he has experience with both and openly shares he is happy with his BMW choice and also shares with the MB board his first hand comparison of both.
• The fact that an MB former loyalist now prefers another brand is upsetting to the balance of MB loyalists, kind of a "king has no clothes" situation.

That about sums it up.


KA has been a contributor to this board and kept it active when it would otherwise have little to no activity with the exceeption of the lowered car in front of a graffiti covered wall. So he likes his new car. Don't we all when we get one? Don't we like to share with our commrades? Isn't that why we go to car forums? Yes, this is an MB forum and he is sharing about his BMW. OK, if we don't like it, we have options, such as ignore, or don't click to open the thread, etc.

I'm not such a brand loyalist that I don't want to hear or learn about other cars. My next purchase may be another MB, but it might not. Certainly, i/we can go to the other brand forums to learn more, or we can see the comparison between two popular competing models here. It is kind of like Car and Driver, right here on the forum.

bigben320e

Agreed.

This has run long enough, IMO.

Agreed. It's not saying KA should just disappear as this is entertaining discussion and welcomed, but in normal style/etiquette, once you move on to another brand..it's time to move to the new forum. When I sold my 300M, I posted up my new rides, pics, we discussed the cars for a couple pages, and I wished them well on the 300M forum.

bigben320e

I can agree with all of this except the point in bold.

MB-JIM

I have now owned over forty MB's and none of them were perfect but I enjoyed each one for their good points. I can say the same for other, not perfect, cars I have owned like four Porsches, and AUDI and an Acura. My 2012 E350 is a fine automobile, but not perfect. I can see some nice improvements coming on the 2014 models. I just hope they continue offering the Luxury models since I like a good ride and no low profile tires.

BenzE350

Agreed, no car is perfect. IMO the current E is behind the comparable Audi A6 and the BMW 5 series. But competition is good and hopefully we can look forward to better MB models in the future.

BenzE350

Over 40 MB's !?!

You must get a new ride every year unless you are 120 or so.

I hope your dealer sends you a nice gift every holiday.

K-A

You are my hero, Golfster!

Sums it up perfectly. I will copy and save that eloquent documentation and use it whenever necessary.

I REALLY am surprised that people think I'm trying to get them to "convert", that's the last thing I want. I can either give an honest take from someone who's now had both cars side by side or I can lie. If it makes someone feel better to assume that I'm on some agenda therefore my opinions are void, then whatever helps you sleep better at night.

For the record M-B may have turned me off to the brand after continuous recent product actions, but my views of the pre facelift W212 haven't diminished. I just have different personal benchmarks now.

petee1997

I agree K-A. The BMW is a great second choice. I traded two of them in 2009 and 2010 on E350's.

bigben320e

This is where I thought you were coming from, not bashing MB.

martinlarose

K-A I personally enjoy your posts and find them helpful as I expect to be getting the e550 when the 2014 becomes available..I have had several BMWs and might have a look at the 535 to compare.Who knows.Keep on posting..Sounds like sour grapes to me by others...

BenzE350

Maybe the truth - but certainly not the whole truth.

There is a clear distinction between never experiencing a personal new benchmark versus not acknowledging the benchmark.

IIRC, you sat in and drove the BMW F10 on a number of occasions. However, you always provided long posts on how you preferred the interior style, ride and handling of the W212 over the 5. Now that you own the 5, your views have changed.

K-A

Thanks Martin.

I'm certainly not telling people to go buy a 535i, just sharing my experiences with both cars.

K-A

And?

Actually I always said the F10's interior dwarfed the E's in quality and premium feel. I said that *I* felt a connection and understood the E's interior because it reminded me of the W126 days. Objectively = Acknowledged better interior in F10. Subjectively = "Romanticized" the concept of what I felt the designers were trying to capture with the W212 interior, and how open-feeling it was (like a "Lounge"), etc. Though I always acknowledged that the E's interior felt a bit cold and not coddling enough in some aspects.

I said before that I preferred a more luxurious and soft ride out of my Luxury Sedan, which is why I liked the E's ride. One of the reasons I wanted a different car was because I felt finally ready for something a little sporty again, though without sacrificing a bit of luxury/premium feel. However the suspension characteristics over harsh roads I was very vocal about in how it practically ruined the W212's ride to me. So I take a closer look at F10: Realize it gives me that extra sporty desire I crave, certainly doesn't skimp one bit on luxury and premium interior/tech, and guess what? Goes over bumps MUCH better! What does that tell you? It was basically what I was asking for.

I wrote up a review about the first F10 I saw and gushed hardcore during it about how "tears" were almost rolling down my face when I first saw it, i.e as if BMW designed the car just for me. Then I went to conclude that as much as I enjoyed seeing it and driving it, my E's aesthetic and the M-B bloodline was enough to make me feel happy about my choice when getting back in it.

And, in the past year or so, people have been "calling me out" in seeming like I was trying to convince myself out of switching to the F10 of which I was starting to show more and more of a connection to.

So if you wanna play detective work, then "it all adds up".