alloutmk23

Not a fan of the 5 series exhaust tips...they are very dull.

But maybe you just had an epiphany, and somehow they are better or more functional than the current W212 exhaust tip setup??

Maybe the tips have something to do with the car being more "eco" friendly and green??

There has to be something you can say to make them look appealing!!!

ddeliber

Alright, all this talk about the F10 got me thinking back to my decision on why I chose the w212 vs a 535 (both CPO). Thinking about what I liked more (and less) about the 535 etc.

However, the one thing seems to be missing in this very interesting discussion is some details on prices. Now many of you may roll your eyes, but most people do care about how much things cost. Granted much of this discussion is about opinions on appearance and feel, but IMO it is important to understand what I am paying for. Even if I had millions to spare I would still look at what I am getting for my money.

In terms of CPO (quick touch here since most of what is being discussed are new but this is still relevant):
-What I noticed was that similarly equipped 535s were a bit more expensive new (in 2010) than the E350, but similar Es were slightly more expensive than the 535s as CPOs. Now there are tons of factors that go in to this including location, availability and list pricing strategies, but this is what I thought when I was looking. If I am right, the E350s hold their value better, and both suffer extreme depreciation (like all high end cars). I don't know if this will translate to the 2013s, so take it for what it is.

Back to new:
I simply went and built one of each and loaded them both up. This has nothing to do with K-As car, I just put almost everything in both builds.

Bottom line the 535 came in at $81k and the E was $75k (similarly equipped - not everything but almost). I know that this is not really a fair comparison because not all options are available on both cars plus they are simply different cars. I just thought it was interesting so I did it. I attached screen caps of the builds but for some reason I couldn't get the E to provide a detailed summary of all options on one screen, you'll have to trust me that they are similar or you can build one yourself.

A couple unique items I noticed:
-The 535 has the dynamic handling pkg at $3.5k and there is nothing similar with the E.
-No adaptive braking, pre-safe brake and hold for the 535 at least that I could find.
-535 has M sports pkg at $2.9k - now from the description, this is just 19" wheels and increased max speed (changed speed limiter?). Is there anything else that I am missing here? I thought there was more to it based on what I read here. You can obviously get 19"ers on the E and they are on the build I put together, and I don't plan to exceed 130mph, but that is just me.
-No heads up display on the E.
-No 360deg camera for the E, but I believe that it is going to be available in 2014 with parktronic opt.
-no real active lane and blind spot assist in the 535. They say active, but they describe it as a light in the mirror and a beep.
-535 has dual multicontour seats ($2.4k) where only the drivers seat was available on the E (at least I couldn't find it) ($750 driver multicontour+ $450 for active ventilated on both). However, judging solely from the description it doesn't look like the bmw has active hugging (side bolsters that move as you turn the car), but the E doesn't have the "imperceptibly raised and lowered" feature of the 535.
-couldn't find keyless go on the 535.
-There are significantly more options (combinations) for the 535 vs the E, but they do seem to be more expensive in comparison.
-the 535 has what they call individual composition at $5.8k which I did not include in the build. I wasn't exactly sure what it was but from the configuration it looked like appearance options only -difft leather, trim and wheel options along with the shadowline exterior trim. I believe that there are special order leather/trim packages for the E as well, but I didn't include them either.
-Does BMW really believe that it will cost $2.3k for 2 extra yrs of maintenance, as that's what they have listed? I know this sounds like an opinion, but I thought I'd include it here as the extra 2 yrs on the E was more like $620 (I included 4yrs in the MB build to be comparable)

I am sure that there are more differences I am sure I missed several, but at least it is a start.

There are obvious places that significantly affect the price on both cars like the 19" wheels and things like night vision and other options that are not that common. It is just a matter of preference here - but I am only pointing out pricing.

petee1997

In K-A's defense, when we buy a new car it is always better than the previous one. Since most German cars are a work in progress, this new 2013 BMW must have features and performance that are superior to the 2011 E he traded. Just like the 13 MB is better than the 11 model.

I may not be as vocal as K-A, but I think my new CLS is the nicest car I have ever owned and compared to my 11 E350 4M, the difference is like night and day. This will wear off soon and the car will be just that, a car.

In a couple of years from now K-A will be trading his current car and he will post here how superior it is to the old 13 model. That's just the way it's supposed to be. We all think the same way but some of us simply don't show our enthusiasm as much.

K-A, enjoy the new ride. It's only new for a very short time!

golfster

Petee, You always contribute with a sense of balance and class. I, for one, appreciate it.

K-A

Thanks bud and you as well. The GL is actually really nice (the new one), which says a lot 'cause I really disliked the old one.

Agreed, and nowhere here have I disagreed. One has to be extremely sensitive to think that I'm trying to trash the E simply because I'm being honest about how I feel the F10 compares to it. Again, I've pointed out things from the F10 that bug me too (double handle pull, HVAC coming on when the car does every damn time, doors don't sound as crisp and solid when you close them).

Well, Petee. In theory what you're saying is true, and you're spot on about me and this situation in one sense, but once again to coddle your own zone of comfort you assume you know things about someone you might not. Let me explain:

I've had 6 new cars in the last 4 years, the "newness factor" doesn't really pollute my train of thought so much. For example, there were quite a few things I missed from my W211 when I got my W212, and there are some things from my W212 I miss from my F10.

One thing I am very good at, is realizing what is a superior product to me, plain and simple. "Newness wearing off" isn't so much a factor to me, I can adore a car forever if I keep it nice and sharp looking.... it's other products that can worthily get my attention that might do the trick.

Aside from that, of course there's that sense of euphoria from a new product, and as you very well know I have no reservations to show adoration about something I truly appreciate. However, even with a newness factor I can realize if something is "bad" or "good".

I'll give it a whirl: Round exhaust tips are sportier and more timeless looking than square ones, they're more of a classic BMW trademark (though they were usually on just one side and dual tips together before), and the black-chrome look is a unique-to-BMW feature.

How'd I do?

BenzE350

Wishful thinking. What icon best describes your feelings...

1.

2. :

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8. :

9.

10.

Wishing everyone a happy weekend!!

Quadcammer

holy ****, all this drama over what are two ho hum middle of the road quasi luxury sedans.

who freaking cares if the kid likes his bmw. I certainly don't care about his overly long, ridiculously metaphorical "critiques" of the styling of these things.

Wig

Oliverk - we don't care about your opinions on the W212 forum. All you ever do is come on here with negative, sneering remarks. If you don't have anything positive to say, then don't come here.

K-A

Get over yourself dude. You are the most self-conscious/self-absorbed crankily prematurely-old sourpuss on this forum.

I get it, nothing but a Ferrari or Bentley matters to you, everything else is a "waste of time and emotion".. in which you enter the forums of such "unimportant" automobiles to try and remind everyone about. Maybe one day you'll have that Ferrari or Bentley so you can stroke your own artificial ego some more.

bigben320e

I will take 5 and 7. Then put 10 last? LOL.

rufmb

You'll have to stop talking like this when you get your Bentley, I believe English is needed in that other forum, before they accept you.

SolidGranite

K-A couldn't be more right about the F10. The engine, transmission and handling capabilities are all superior to an E350. It's not even close really. On top of those 3 major components you still have considerably more options and toys to play with in an F10 too. HUD!!! Gosh I'd love to have that on my 550!

It all boils down to different strokes for different folks. Mercedes isn't going after the same crowd as BMW and vice versa. A Merc will give you more reliability, simplicity and that heavy feeling of riding down a turnpike on air. Given the added complexity of the BMWs you'll have less reliability but more fun. Just all depends on what you're looking for...

Nice car K-A. Hope to see you back in a Merc soon!

K-A

Thanks bud and well said!

Yeah, I am a total believer of HUD now. Just the other night I put it into "Sport" to feel that awesome responsive effect, and let it loose a bit to get onto the Freeway, before I knew it I was at 95 and wouldn't have even noticed unless the HUD wasn't there in my face! Also it shows Nav directions and just looks really cool.

Hope you're enjoying your whip as well!

Gsc

Where have I been, K-A picked up a BMW! Wow. Enjoy it to the fullest!

K-A

Thank you.

Okay, I found something on this car that is SURE to get even some of the staunchest critics approval, considering how many times I'd read about owners peeved about W212's not getting this in the States....

.... FOLDING. MIRRORS.

petee1997

We have had that in Canada as standard equipment for a number of years. It doesn't serve much purpose.

I use it to check if my car is locked. My alarm and locking is on silent.

It's really a feature for Europe where some of the streets are very narrow and this facilitates the parking.

Arrie

Folding mirrors really are made for parking garages where there is very little room between cars. Now, I'm talking about European garages where room between cars normally is much less than here in N.A.

I'm not sure why this is a standard feature in Canada as for car parking it is the same as U.S.

BenzE350

Can't please everyone. A current F10 owner started a thread on bimmerfest complaining that this is the WORST CAR EVER. (Yes in caps)

Lots of hyperbole.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=669540

220S

Once upon a time, there was a little girl named Goldilocks. She went for a walk in the forest. Pretty soon, she came upon a house. She knocked and, when no one answered, she walked right in.

At the table in the kitchen, there were three bowls of porridge. Goldilocks was hungry. She tasted the porridge from the first bowl.

"This porridge is too hot!" she exclaimed.

So, she tasted the porridge from the second bowl.

"This porridge is too cold," she said

So, she tasted the last bowl of porridge.

"Ahhh, this porridge is just right," she said happily and she ate it all up.

After she'd eaten the three bears' breakfasts she decided she was feeling a little tired. So, she walked into the living room where she saw three chairs. Goldilocks sat in the first chair to rest her feet.

"This chair is too big!" she exclaimed.

So she sat in the second chair.

"This chair is too big, too!" she whined.

So she tried the last and smallest chair.

"Ahhh, this chair is just right," she sighed. But just as she settled down into the chair to rest, it broke into pieces!

Goldilocks was very tired by this time, so she went upstairs to the bedroom. She lay down in the first bed, but it was too hard. Then she lay in the second bed, but it was too soft. Then she lay down in the third bed and it was just right. Goldilocks fell asleep.

K-A

Looks like you guys took that folding mirror thing too seriously. LOL. I agree it's pretty pointless (but welcome). I just remembered so many people here complaining about not having them on MBs here anymore.

Cal

Didn't know the W212 didn't have folding mirrors. I thought they all did since all the MB SUVs I've owned (including the ML W164) had them. As you know by now, on the 5er, you can program it (aftermarket) so that they fold/open whenever you lock/unlock your car.

Agreed for the most part. However, they are handy in any crowded parking lot where people (and possibly their carts, strollers, etc) are zigzagging between cars looking for their own car. Folding mirrors always save potential damage in these scenarios. They are more useful than they appear.

Wig

Predictably most of the debate is between BMW and Audi. MB seems to appeal to a slightly different audience.

MB should resist the urge to go more 'sporty', because that is Audi and BMW territory. MB is risking alienating its traditional fan base.

K-A

I DID NOT KNOW THAT!! Thanks for letting me know. There are so many "toys" on this car I'm still learning about.

You know, the thing about mirrors are.... I kind of like them sticking out for the sake of potential door dings. I feel that perhaps sometimes they can "block" the ding that would otherwise have gotten to the door?

Yeah, right now the big debate between Audi/BMW drivers is definitely between Audi/BMW. Audi has become the sportier, more hardcore, more "connected" alternative, i.e winning one-track-minded magazine tests (who only care about how sporty and rough a car feels, apparently). BMW has gone so far luxurious and coddling with the F10, that many BMW purists have been turned off, and Audi (and even Lexus with the GS in some senses) are waiting with open arms. BMW's tactic however has worked in a different way.... they got someone like me to jump ship and gave me what *I*, coming from an M-B but seeking some BMW sportive DNA, wanted.

I agree that M-B should resist the urge to go "sporty", because that isn't what M-B is about. M-B should maintain CAPTAIN OF THE LUXURY TEAM. I don't care if the E handles more wobbly than the 5er or A6, I didn't buy an E for tight turns, but what I DO find unacceptable is when that same E with those same handling characteristics rides less smoothly than an alternative, and that's IMO what M-B should keep their focus laser-tight on.

hyperion667

I'm jacking this thread with pictures of my 07-new to me ride

K-A

I was considering one of those. Then I considered myself to re-think the 991 as that's where my heart really was.

.... then I decided to keep the extra cash in the bank and Lease a 5-Series.

Congrats, big upgrade from the Targa and a Porsche 911 TT is the epitome of timeless.