Originally Posted by mleskovar

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_mulligan

Are you still sticking with 0.5% of 2010/2011 E550 owners have pulsating/judder/whatever your call it problem?...

Actually I believe that is what MB is sticking with and they have the data.....don't they? If you believe you are going to trump MB's data you're mistaken. For a tech to spit out those stats you know he was quoting corporate. It rolled off his tongue too quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_mulligan

...By the way, I found another poster (tg4e) that just replaced the brakes because of "pulsations" on a 2011 E550. ...

What a coincidence, so did I!!!! He's on the "other" forum who started a thread "warped disk brakes". You could add him. Interesting statement in his thread starter...." I've always had this problem with all my cars. I know I stop hard and fast, so I've just grown accustomed to having to replace my rotors more frequently. However, it seems worse in the CPO 2010 E550 I purchased in December." Sounds like we can both cite him He even thanked me for my suggestion to bed his brakes. Go figure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_mulligan

...What are you saying about the 30+ posters that have complained????These complaints aren't second hand. Some are truly upset. The evidence/data is their testimony. You don't believe them? Why? You think they are liars?

I'm not saying these people are making up stories about failures, I'm sure they have better things to do and I've also been in their shoes with dealers. You have pads and rotors being replaced and documented so that's hard evidence of failure. I guarantee you "warped rotors" is classified by MB as customer caused. Doubt it? Which part is the culprit, if not both, is irrelevant to the fact that there was a failure and both are replaced anyway yet they specify rotors. The anecdotal part you have to overcome is the why. If the customer pays to have it replaced it's because they caused it. If MB replaces it for free/warranty it's because MB is promoting good will. And they have the work order/evidence to prove why. You can't win. You're saying it's because the parts were either defective or designed wrong and MB is saying it's neither, but a customer failure and we're just being nice when we do it gratis. Of course the customer says "I drive normal and under normal conditions". Their why is anecdotal but MB can show evidence that 99.5% success rate with the part is sufficient to say .5% of the failure is the user's fault by....take your pick...A riding the brakes B late braking C adverse conditions. "It's a common problem in the industry." Your evidence/data is anecdotal and MB's is not. That's what I'm saying. Wrong?

Originally Posted by ImInPA

If all 30 of the owners that have reported rotor issues with the E550 were lumped in with the 10's of thousands of E550 owners that do not have any issues, I would think the percentage of actual problems would be very very small.

Originally Posted by Helmar

From 60mph, gently apply the brakes a couple of times to bring them up to operating temperature. This prevents you from thermally shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps.

Make eight to ten near-stops from 60mph to about 10-15 mph. Do it HARD by pressing the brakes firmly, but do not lock the wheels or engage ABS. At the end of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph and then apply the brakes again. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP! If you stop completely and sit with your foot on the brake pedal, you will imprint pad material onto the hot rotors, which could lead to vibration and uneven braking.

The brakes may begin to fade after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.

After the last near-stop, accelerate back up to speed and cruise for a while, using the brakes as little as possible. The brakes need only a few minutes to cool down. Try not to become trapped in traffic or come to a complete stop while the brakes are still very hot.

Originally Posted by RobbieRob

OMG, this post is still going on, with the same answers??? I have excepted my junk *** rotors for the fact that(I am single with no kids, and have a lot of fun), when I have a large breasted chick in my car(typically every Thurs,Fri, Sat Nights, Sunday Days), I can late brake at speed and the car wobbles so bad that I just stair at the passenger until I come to a complete stop. Then I do it all over again..... God Bless the great plastic surgeons out there, your the best..Silicone is Great/Strippers rule..lol

Originally Posted by ImInPA

Unless more of the 3K plus owners of E550s become members, we will never know. I hope that if it truly is a defect in materials that MB be finally acknowledge it and provide a permanent fix for the E550 owners.

Originally Posted by Arrie

About the brake pad material, I don't think it has been legal to use asbestos containing brake components in the U.S. for the past 20 years or so. Everything for sure now is non-asbestos.

The layer on the rotor. Are you sure you are not scraping a thick dust layer on the rotors with your screw driver? This would be the same dust that covers the rims and makes everything on the front wheels look so dirty.

If it is the dust it has nothing to do with bedding that has been discussed. If this layer would be strong enough for the pad to ride on it then the rotor surface under this scraped pad material would be as new. Was it? I seriously doubt it was. But if it was then Infiniti has invented a brake system that wears only pads while rotors last forever.

I think you can find the same layer of dust on the MB rotors, the very same dust layer that dirties the wheels so bad you yourself decided to replace the pads with better material just like I did. And it seems all the customers here with the warped rotor problems run with the original components, i.e. With the dust layer on rotors and they still warp.

Originally Posted by mleskovar

They all do it to some extent but I'm surprised you can scrape any pad material off at all. It's an extremely thin layer of material mixed in with the rotor surface. I would think that if it were thick enough to scrape off then something is wrong.

Originally Posted by mleskovar

I found that the higher performance pads that dust less also fade less but take more pedal pressure and don't "bite" as well. They also require warm up and I agree a bit noisier. My last Benz dusted so bad it was worth the trade off. This one doesn't but I also drive less and almost never in rush hour freeway traffic that really abuses brakes. The really positive side to more aggressive pads is they're usually rotor friendly and seem to last forever going 4 -5 times more distance than the OEM pads.

Originally Posted by BlackOmega

There is nothing wrong with the brakes. I've actually looked at probably 20 cars with the OE pad and the rotors all look the same. They're not the color of bare metal, they're not blue either, they're more of a black color (same as the pad material).
And while the layer is not thick by any means, it can be scraped away.
OE rotors are so hard that I can't even make a scrape line on a new/freshly cut rotor with my screwdriver at all (the metal of the rotor is harder than that of my screwdriver).
I'll take some pics tomorrow when I have a wheel off.

Originally Posted by no_mulligan

I believe you are wrong by accepting what you heard from a MB Tech in physical therapy session. I don't accept it based on what I've read here from people with real experiences. The numbers don't add up even remotely. You fail to weigh the messages from 30+ people versus 1 tech (that could be walking company line). Their claims are not anecdotal. Any claims that purports to solve it might be. That's why I'm giving you a hard time. You say MB can show this or that and has the evidence. Don't hide behind that. That's like saying the government can show you aliens. Nobody is going to, are they? So, you go around and say things contrary to these testimonies and expect what? All of us to drink that Kool-Aid. ...

Originally Posted by no_mulligan

US sales of E-Class number 62,736 (PRNewswire 1/3/2013) in 2011. If 1 in 20 are 550, that's only 3136 in the USA. Where do people get the notion that there are so many 550 out there?? As I've said,okay to accept facts but verify. So, doing the math, we have 1% here. Can you imagine those not here? The number goes which way? I'd bet on Up! ...

Originally Posted by mleskovar

Glad this thread has diverged into a semblance of civility I am pretty sure the tech was giving party line and where he told me is irrelevant, he's still a tech. As well, I don't think he attached that failure just to the MYs in question. The major point that I was making is that it's a recognized problem by MB and they believe it's driver specific, and not big enough to address and they've come up with stats to back their claim. And I agree with you. You can drown in a river that averages 5 inches of water.



"If" 1 in 20? So let's take a different approach and extrapolate a bit. I agree that just from the small sample you've made it's a heck of a lot more than .5% for the MYs in question. Less say 30 times that or 15% for those MYs and double the number of cars to include MY 2010 (a guess). MB is not going to make an engineering change for less than two thousand failures that isn't mandatory by law when a fix, however temporary, is available. That's 'noise' as you put it to them. One could argue it's a safety defect but the retort would be "they had a known malfunction and continued to drive the car". To get back on track to the original post......without using the "B" word....brake pads and "discs"(their word) are specifically called out as only covered for 12 months or 12,000 miles, whichever comes first. The only recourse you have is to appeal to the dealers for fair compensation for what you consider extraordinary failures. If they run true to course they'll give you an extraordinary 'deal' on a new car and you'll both be happy.

Originally Posted by no_mulligan

...I had SBC brakes with my 2006 E350. That system could fail anytime anywhere without warning. Nobody was killed but many were at the very least scared. All MB did was extend warranty to 10 years on the system. That's it. I'm sure it was a business decision....

Originally Posted by thekurgan

Much appreciated you taking the time

Originally Posted by thekurgan

Still appears to be a nice, even distribution of material on the rotor. That's a good shot without a macro lens. Thanks.

Originally Posted by thekurgan

Still appears to be a nice, even distribution of material on the rotor. That's a good shot without a macro lens. Thanks.

Originally Posted by mleskovar

Yes, I think the pad material you're scraping off is coming from what's in the grooves on the disc. Not uncommon to have grooves.

Originally Posted by MagicJack

2010 E550 I'm on my 3rd set of front rotors and the unsmoothness or 'warped' rotors is coming back.
Bedding, not clamping down on hot rotors -- I've done or avoided all these things and they keep 'warping'. I'm at 80,000 miles

I'm angry at the expense and inconvenience of this. I suspect its the OEM non brake dust producing quiet brake pads. I'm having the dealer inspect the brakes next week. If they tell me I need new rotors and brakes, that's it! I'm putting on non OEM rotors and brake pads on myself.

Originally Posted by MagicJack

2010 E550 I'm on my 3rd set of front rotors and the unsmoothness or 'warped' rotors is coming back.
Bedding, not clamping down on hot rotors -- I've done or avoided all these things and they keep 'warping'. I'm at 80,000 miles

I'm angry at the expense and inconvenience of this. I suspect its the OEM non brake dust producing quiet brake pads. I'm having the dealer inspect the brakes next week. If they tell me I need new rotors and brakes, that's it! I'm putting on non OEM rotors and brake pads on myself.