lbgottlieb

I'm a 40yo who's been driving Hondas and Toyota's for the past 24 years. I came to this site after looking into the newly designed 2013 Toyota Avalon - the desire for a larger sedan with very nice power delivery. But after looking into the cost of the Avalon, by nature I then started to look around to see what else I could buy for maybe just a little more. That lead me to start looking into a CPO W212, which is why I'm here.

I'm not here to start a debate on the reliability between a W212 gas engine and an Avalon. But I am still looking for a car that I can keep for a long time - and by that I mean a minimum of 200k miles, if not a lot more. My last car, a '97 Acura CL 3.0 was sold with 218k on it - and sold only b/c the rear wheel-well rust was killing me to look at. That car received synthetic blend oil changes every 3,000 miles, tranny drain & fills every 30k miles, and regular fluid changes for brakes, PS, etc. If a car starts to cost me say $500-$800 or so a year in addition to regular maintenance, I don't get all bent out of shape b/c of it.

With all this being said, here's my question: If I were to take ownership of a W212 (figure a 2012 or 2013), have the oil changed every 4,000 miles (I don't care what is said about the lifespan of synthetic, what am I really saving if the engine doesn't last longer than I desire), tranny and rear diff fluids drain & filled say every 30k miles (I don't yet know the manual recommendation or what the A/B service suggests) - are the odds in my favor that the engine on a 2012/2013 W212 will last me to a minimum of 200k miles?

What I really came here for to begin with was the desire for a Bluetec, but after everything I've read about MB's requirement for nothing more than B5, it just doesn't seem very practical for one living in a B11-B20 environment (northern Illinois). If my judgement seems a bit clouded, please feel free to comment.

ImInPA

I had a Bluetec W212 and now have a W221 Bluetec. With proper maintenance, you should expect considerably more mileage from the diesel. Keep in mind this is the same engine used in the Dodge/Freightliner/MB Sprinter Vans. It is a real workhorse of an engine. In my E, I regularly got close to 40 mpg and with my S (same engine, different tune) i get 37-38 mpg. The real issue with any new car today is not really the engines/transmissions, it is the electronics that generally let you down.

MA-E320

OM642 diesel engines last for a long time. They are used in taxis allover Europe and they can go on and on provided proper maintenance is done. They have some oil leaking concerns that must be addressed as soon as they exhibit themselves.

M272 engines (available in 2011 and 2010 model years) are quite reliable and they are the same as the ones in later W211 chassis. The most miles I've seen in a W211 are 240,000 on a 2008 E350 4Matic.

MY 2012 and 2013 carry the M273 engine which is direct injection. It is too early to speak about longevity in this engine. Early experiences have shown bad injectors and failing fuel pumps.

I personally own a 98 E320 with 201K miles and engine has been trouble free since my ownership. I recently replaced the valve cover gaskets due to minor oil sips but other than that it's been very solid.

lbgottlieb

C'mon guys...you're gonna make me cry.....

Quadcammer

with regular maintenance and using averages, the engine should be fine to 200k

no_mulligan

200K+ miles is a lot to ask for. I'm not sure why that's your goal. Could it be that you demand value or have some psychological separation issues. Doesn't matter I suppose. From what I've read and have seen, $500-$800 repair cost is almost non existent. Try thinking thousands on repairs. At least at the dealership. Can you stomach that? My stepson had a c300 where the seat motor broke. $3K. I'm on my 3rd MB. I have either had CPO warranty or bought new with extended warranty because one failure can pay for it. Because the cost can be so high, As the value goes down factoring time and mileage, I ask myself if it's worth it. There isn't any data now to predict the vulnerabilities of 2012/2013. But some models in the past had balance shaft issues, brake system failure, etc. I have talked to high mileage drivers where they run it to 140K and then sell. Keeping a MB more than 10 model years invites those odd failures affected by time rather than mileage and you could be at least 2 generations behind and taking a $$ hit. Where you live, do you see MBs more than 10 years old zipping around? I've always wondered where old MB cars go. Probably parted because of the value.
By the way, I know about keeping cars awhile. Right now, I have a 10 yr old Honda Pilot with 202K miles that is soon to be retired.
You mentioned power. Try a E550 out and you will learn a new level of difference compared to Honda and Toyota.


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Mr Snappy

Stick with the rice-burners, doesn't seem like you are a good candidate for these cars.

lbgottlieb

It seems like there's a fair amount of early W211s and a score of W212s driving around here. I'm in northern Illinois and work on the north shore - where the money is (so to speak). Most owners around here (I imagine) are those who take their car to the dealer and just hand over the Amex card to pay the repair bill without even glancing at it. They trade-in their cars on a whim and don't get all caught up in reliability or longevity. Teh only W210s I see are those with a fiar amount of rust - just a shame for that design. Maybe what I should really do is reach out to more Illinois Bluetec owners to see how annoying it is to easily find pure-diesel up here.

I suppose I was being naivein my $500-$800/year cost, but I'd only go CPO with the 135k extended warranty added for good measure anyway. No psychological separation issues here, I just like buying things once and having them last a long time. I suppose my goal would be for 10 years. It's just too bad someone hasn't started mass-restoring W124s in their garage....

BTW - Mulligan, nice to see your Pilot at 202k miles. I like ours a lot, aside from some surface rust issues underneath the plastic step sills underneath the doors. I have the tranny drained & flushed every 30k miles due to the rare-but-still-prevalent poor tranny reputation.

RNBRAD

I'll bet these motors will last longer than the body and most parts and also longer than most people want to keep a car. Every Benz motor that is cared for I would expect 200k without issues and likely to see 250k+. My Japanese cars easily reach 200k but it's the peripherals that kill you. The car falls apart around the motor. I just never had any desire to keep a car till the motor is wore completely out. Japanese car parts are extremely high as well.

SoCalCLK

The N/A E350 and E550 engines are solid candidates and should be able to meet your expectations of 200K miles. These engines are tanks.

no_mulligan

Every CPO comes with 1yr/100K CPO LIMITED WARRANTY that begins after new vehicle warranty expires. You can buy extended limited warranty (ELW) on CPO for up to 2yr/135K that begins after the CPO LIMITED WARRANTY . Time clock begins from the new vehicle in service date. So if you add it up, the max is 7 years. But, for example, a 1 yr CPO with 10K and 2nd owner drives 20K per year, the new vehicle warranty expires end of year 3, CPO LIMITED WARRANTY expires end of year 5 and the ELW (2yr/135K) expires end of year 6 even though you are only at 130K miles. You never made it to 7 years nor miles. Run your own scenario and make sure you know what you end up with.


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ScottNJ

If you've always had Toyotas and you want more luxury, maybe you should check out the Lexus GS350. That car will last beyond 200K. My dad had a GS300 that he bought new and sold with 252K with no major problems.

Arrie

I don't know about the gas engines but the diesels run longer than you want to keep the car. Easily 350 000 miles and longer.

I think the gas engine is close to the same but, of course, something can brake in either one. I don't think 250 000 miles is any kind of a problem for a MB gas engine.

Like others have already stated, it is not about the engine or the transmission, it is the electronics that bothers me the most as ifI would keep the car past the warranty or not. I have the CPO car warranty good another year and 5 months and I am seriously planning to extend this the other two years up to 135 000 miles. I absolutely LOVE THIS CAR even though it has its small problems but that is what the extended warranty is all about.

E glass is a tank for a car but it drives very nice. For a car to keep for a long time I would not go with E350, E550 it needs to be.

K-A

If you want longevity and a motor that has potential to have less go wrong, go for a 2010 or 2011 E with the more low-output V6. From my knowledge gained, it seems that motor has less that can go wrong with it, also is not really tuned for high performance therefore has a better chance to just "truck along" for a long span of use.

no_mulligan

IMHO, a 2010 or 2011 puts you 3 to 4 years old and likely close to out of new vehicle warranty. If warranty is important, which OP said "I'd only go CPO with the 135k extended warranty",then you are shorting yourself. Besides, the gas economy hit can mean spending $6K+ over 10 years (15K miles/yr @ 50% highway..see fueleconomy.gov) and that's flat savings without interest!

mbuster25

From everything I hear, all the German brands MB included, don't have as much reliability as Lexus (Toyota)/Acura (Honda) and that is not through web, but talking with owners who've owned both. When it comes to repair, the labor cost can be much higher than the part itself.

I had Lexus vehicles w/ relatively good ownership experiences up to the 190K mark (no major engine repairs, but cars did developed squeaks, breaks in seals, driver seat cushion worn, some radio lights burned out, electrical door or window issues, all expected with age).

All the PM may increase your chances, but it's not always about exceeding the standard maintenance in terms of fluid exchanges. Sometimes it is a design or part failure. Time will tell as the new DI engines need to develop its own history.

Mbenz260e

That would be awesome...I miss my 260E sometimes, though wish it had been a W124 300D...

mleskovar

Overkill but that's your call. You could save the money for other repairs. I recently traded in an '01 C320 with 185K miles that was still solid, looked and performed great. If I had to pay for the maintenance I did on it I would be broke now. Nothing major but a lot of little stuff that annoys.

Other manufacturers' DI engines have shown a propensity to coat the intake track and valves with carbon gunk that must be removed through costly ($1K+) procedures every so many miles (15k-25k?) to maintain tune. Some have extra injectors just to clean the tracks and others have fiddled with valve timing to reduce the problem but I haven't heard if those efforts work. I don't know if MB has anything special to combat this phenomena or if they'll even have the problem and would like to hear about knowledge in this area for MB if anyone knows.

boltonblue

I can only speak to other engines in the MB line but...

I have 213k on my 98 ml320, 178k on my '03 S430, and 173K on my '01 E430.
They get oil changes the indicated service interval which since I tend towards highway driving is around 12-14k miles.
All of the engines are in great shape and running strong.
The ML had an alternator changed around 195K, the E430 got a water pump at ~165k, not an operational failure but the bearings were a little sloppy and we already had the belts off.

The seals are a little leaky now so towards the end of the service interval they might need a quart of oil.
None of these engines have been pampered.

listerone

Currently being on my second diesel I'm now a firm believer and can't see myself ever again driving anything else.I have heard about the B10-20 situation in Illinois and have been curious about it.Perhaps you can,in some spare time,contact a few MB/Audi/BMW dealerships in the Chicago area and ask them what their manufacturers are saying about the situation.

listerone

I'm now about 50K miles into my two German cars after having done 100K on two Infinitis.With the Infinitis there was one service visit not related to routine maintenance whereas I'm about to book my seventh non-maintenance visit for a German car.

lbgottlieb

My concerns about the use of biodiesel led me to join the VW TDI forum. Ironically someone there posted this brochure from Mercedes. It would appear that MB is washing their hands of the entire situation, though at least they're trying to steer their owners to the correct fuel.

rufmb

Unless you operate a Taxi service in Germany with your own Mercedes maintenance shop, stick with Honda/Toyota. As someone pointed out, there is no $500-$800/yr maintenance on luxury cars. I don't fix my cars myself and I only let go of my beautiful Audi A6 recently after several years of $1-3K fixes when the latest estimate came in at $6K)

Also, due to the general problems and obsolescense of electronics (as someone else pointed out) and interior degradation issues, the luxury car past 10yrs/150K miles is no luxury car anymore. You have to get new wood (pardon the expression) and re-upholster. In 2020, even 20inch display for the back-up camera will be std equipment.

C280 Sport

It will last forever if you keep it up. I don't see why 200k would be a issue or even close to 300k Just remember this is no jap car and the upkeep is higher on them as it is a premium car. Synthetic oil, premium fuel, parts are more expensive, service is every 12k miles and its more then just a oil change. Breaks and inscurance will cost you more as well. I am just putting this out there for you now so you don't buy it, complain the entire time about it(Like my neighbor) If your on a budget and money is tight I will tell you right up front a E Class is not for you.

SoCalCLK

Well said. I don't want to get into a theoretical discussion on how many view Jap cars as appliances, but there are certain costs and expenditures that come with owning an E-Class, good or bad, it's the way it is. The point is, if you take care of your Mercedes, then the engine should last you for many years to come, and well beyond 200K miles. I for one would rather drive an E550 for 200K miles than a Jap car for 20 miles, but that's just me.