MBNUT1

Now you've gone and done it...

K-A

No prob. I don't want to go to far with it here, to save from ruffling any feathers as of course people here chose the E Class, but my 535i with the *right tactful options* I selected (a must) is on an entirely upper level from the either of my pretty well loaded E350's. I've never connected with a car so well before, but opinions will vary. I think part of that is because I was driving the "wrong brand" in that my inherent nature must feel more connected to BMW's values than Mercedes', and again, that will vary from person to person. Feel free to PM me and I'll send you some more extensive "reviews" I did.

Nuru

OH c'mon, go ahead and give us all the technical details. Those of us who just bought another Benz, would love to hear it. Honest opinions are always welcome.

K-A

People get real sensitive on that here, hehe.

I'll just go ahead and say that compared to what I was used to, the car feels more luxurious, quiet, and vastly more sporty. It's amazing in how it feels like it "shrinks around you" when you start to really get on it (mind: the 2013 M Sports come with an ACTUAL fixed M Sport suspension and no active crap). The interior has some richer materials, the car goes over bumps MUCH better than my E's yet at the same time is stiffer around corners, and road surfaces that made my E's shutter and get loud my 5er just glides over. Even something as simple as the standard sunroof is on a different level. I loved my 2010's Pano but my 2011 had a standard sunroof which was small, had a manual cover you had to pull, and made a horribly crude noise when opening or closing. My F10 has an electronic cover, the sunroof itself is much bigger, and it sounds a lot "classier" when opening or closing.

Electronics and iDrive on really on another level, etc. I just really enjoy the car, as it gives me what I love the 212 for (comfort, luxury), but IMO steps it up and provides a more dynamic experience via those BMW sport roots still imbedded in there (mind you, many purists criticize the F10 for feeling too much like a "Mercedes" or "Lexus" but I think I was essentially the target market for this chassis.... a Mercedes guy who wanted some BMW "roots" but without losing any of that Mercedes like comfort and luxury.

I think the reason this makes sense considering these cars are comparably priced is because the F10 is essentially an over-engineered chassis for this segment. In one part, it pisses off purists because they want the 5 to be a "bigger 3" but on another, as a luxury car, you get the 7-Series chassis shrunken down to fit a 5-Series body, and that same chassis is used as the basis for the Rolls Royce Ghost. The F10 boasts an incredibly outstanding 37,xx nm's of torsional rigidity (compared to the W212's even very high 29,xx nm's of torsional rigidity) and IMO you can feel it in how robust and isolated this chassis is. Simply put: The F10's inherent chassis base has to carry all the way up to the RR Ghost, hence its ridiculously high weight for this segment, yet as well hence its ridiculously high strength and isolation for this segment.

Oh, and you've never experienced a TRUE "Sport Mode" until you experience the 5ers with "Sport Auto Transmission" option. Not only does it make the already amazing ZF 8-Speed even more aggressive and snappy, and not only do you get MUCH nicer paddles with a flat black/aluminum mix (VS the dainty gloss plastic pieces in the Mercs), but the Sport Mode is an ACTUAL Sport Mode. It is very aggressive, holds revs, and maximizes the engine output in every gear. It is a night and day difference than Comfort Mode, and literally feels like another car in Eco Mode. I found my E350's Sport Mode's to really not do much, except give you a first gear and hold revs very unnoticeably slightly more. My 5ers does the same, but it also makes the throttle engagement much snappier and quicker, shifts much faster, holds revs waaaay higher (too high sometimes actually) and changes the entire steering weight (makes it heavier). On cars with Active Suspensions, of course it also changes the suspension behavior.

I have the 535i with the N55 I6 motor which is perhaps my favorite motor in the world (and has won a "Best Engine Award" every year since its inception). Not only do I get over 30 MPG on the highway, but it hits its max torque at only an astounding 1200 RPM's. And it is TORQUEY. It feels like a big V8 around town. I can get it sideways in "Sport + Mode" (which is yet another Sport Mode those with M Sport and/or Sport Auto Trans get, which gives you "Dynamic Traction Control" that makes it so you can get loose but not dangerous) with no problems. My brother actually said it "feels too violent" when I did that. On top of being more low-RPM geared for very usable power, it still has a high Max RPM for a Turbo car, at 7K. IMO nothing sounds more exhilarating and sublime than the BMW I6 Turbo at high RPM's, it is a mix of buttery smooth yet racey grit. Sounds like those video game engines that they literally try and make sound like "race cars". Speaking of smooth, as usual, IMO the unique type of smoothness the engine provides is almost unmatchable. It's a very unique motor with a very unique personality, which I like (you can't find an I6 barely anywhere these days).

I wrote a very extensive review on the Bimmerfest forums, if you search under my name and Threads I've started (something like "2 months update review" or something like that).

Hope that helps you guys. Now everybody will hate me.

FYI the F10 facelift is coming out for 2014 as well (they're REALLY waiting till the last minute to reveal it) and unlike the E, it will be extremely subtle, which is another reason why I went to BMW. I literally felt offended for trusting M-B designers who drastically about-face changed i.e lacked confidence in the original W212 design which I defended and grew to love so much. IMO a Premium Brand shouldn't look like they keep not trusting what they themselves are doing. BMW on the other hand don't want to mess with the F10's winning formula much so will just further enhance the original idiom of this car, but not enough so as to date or "offend" initial buyers, IMO that's the perfect facelift formula. I'm thinking of jumping into a facelift F10 if I deem it superior enough to warrant switching from the 2013 I have now.

K-A

Oh, and I forgot. There's also a "DS" mode which those of us with SAT (Sport Auto Transmission) who have paddles, get as a 2nd form of Manual shifting if wanted (either by the Joystick or the Paddles). However, best thing about DS is that it is its OWN thing, i.e not related to the actual "Sport Mode" which is engaged by pressing a button. So if you wanted to really maximize performance, you put it in the already very aggressive and bonafide by engineering methods not marketing methods, "Sport Mode", and THEN "DS" mode (clicking the joystick to the left) and you have Sport/DS mode which makes the car pretty much shift as aggressively as possible and want to practically redline every gear.

My favorite part however, which again ties to the sporty roots of the brand, is an purebred "Manual" mode. If you click the joystick into "DS" mode, and then engage one of the paddles or joystick shifts, you now are in a manual mode where the computer WILL NOT interfere with, UNLESS it needs to help you. It is very non intrusive and only intrudes when you're about to do something possibly damaging, and even then it lets you get away with A LOT. I find it ads yet another very fun personality flavor to the car when I'm in the mood to feel more "connected" with it. Of course it's not as connected as a true manual, but it's as close as you'll get from an Automatic car.

JingerE

So thats what it was haha i noticed last time i drove my friend's 2008 535i he kept saying "switch to ds switch to ds."

Dear K-A, how is the car in terms of reliability?
I plan to keep the car for at least 6~7 years from now

K-A

Lol. Yeah, DS ONLY controls the shift speed and patterns, then the Sport button of course controls shift speed/pattern, gives you a 1st gear, holds gears higher and longer, heavies up the steering, gives you snappier throttle response, and with Active Suspension cars, tweaks the suspension settings. It's really the most comprehensive Sport Mode I've ever seen, especially considering you can combine S with DS, and then even go into a true Manual Mode if wanted.

As for reliability, that I can't comment on. I do know that the 2011's were short of disasters in terms of having lots of electronic problems later cars haven't had. BMW were kind of on the bleeding edge of tech on the car and seemed to perhaps rush some stuff out. The W212 was the opposite, not bleeding edge but everything was tried and true and rock solid.

2012 F10's seem to be better, but it seems 2013's are the F10's to have, and I wouldn't recommend getting an earlier one. Slight tweaks here and there have gone a long way, and some members who had '12's and got '13's commented on pretty vast improved overall feelings. It also got a new iDrive which is outstanding, compared to the COMAND I was used to. Of course, COMAND is easier to use and very intuitive, but the small screen and harsher graphics are simply less elegant, and of course it is vastly less comprehensive. iDrive is almost too comprehensive though in that it can get overwhelming and annoying, so I do like COMAND's basic logical simplicity, which aligns with Mercedes' strategy.

I'd think you should be fine for 6-7 years regardless. If you did choose the F10, I'd say just get the extended warranty for extra peace of mind to cover you for all those years.

boylston

My local dealer has 2014's on the lot, marked at $3,000 off sticker.

jmatero

Drove home in a brand new 2013 E350 Sport last night. $11,000 off MSRP, 24months/12k miles, with scheduled maintenance and tax <$500/mo. (Only CA DMV out of pocket).

Dk grey, P1, rear spoiler. MSRP $57k, sale price $46k.

Very happy!!!

thenew3

Wow, that's a great deal! Sounds like they are already clearing out the 13's

JasonMayes

Wow, those are huge discounts. You guys must have MUCH more dealer incentives than we do in WI or the midwest for that matter.

Nuru

Congrats on the vehicle1 P1 with what - details we need more details!

Ok for some reason you lost me with 24 months/12k miles? Thinking cap may not be on today?

Nuru

Thanks K-A, I hope BMW has gotten it together with respect to their maintenance record over the past few years. I totally agree with you on the releasing new features before their time just to be first to market. A few of my relatives have had the recent models of 3, 5, and 7 series and their stories are legendary at gatherings - Braggig/complaining, bragging/complaining, LOL!. ,

I have read in the past where BMW has gone ahead and recalled a number of cars for repairs, i personally prefer for the Manufacturer to do this when it is necessary.
I dunno about the 1 series cars
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...91I0TZ20130219

So has MBenz
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012...for-fuel-leak/

5 series in the recent past.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercoh...9000-vehicles/

lbgottlieb

For those such as myself who are looking to become CPO buyers, this could be turning out ot be a very important thread. I'm finding used pre-face lift W212 prices in the range of those who are snatching up some very good deals on new 2013's. I'm not suggesting that these cars won't hold their value, but I'll bet that it might become much more difficult for a dealer to justify their price when the new ones are going for discounts such as this - even after going through the CPO process.

jmatero

Narrowed my choices to E350, 528i/535i, GS350. All great cars in their own right. Despite the similarity in dimensions, the Lexus was the most nimble... It felt like a great sized car and easy to park. And for $53k, it was equipped brilliantly. The 5-series proved a strange beast. I never quite felt a personal connection to the car. It felt massive... wide... Behind the wheel. And looks so much like the 3 now that I have difficulty telling them apart. The ride was nice, but in the end it really lacked personality... And I'm a BMW guy saying that. The E350 is not perfect by any means but it was the most comfortable to me, had the most distinctive personality, and looked the most masculine of the three. And as my first Benz, there is something magic about seeing that hood ornament each time you get behind the wheel. I also find the command system the easiest to use... And appreciate the redundant buttons on the dash and while idrive has improved, the icons still don't make sense... Particularly on the nav screen. All great cars though!!! My only nitpicks driving off the lot were lack of eyeglass storage, no guidelines on the backup cam screen, and no MB Lightning Cable yet.

jmatero

Oh sorry.... That's the lease! 24mon, 12k miles/yr.

Nuru

sounds like you are down to the Lexus and us, well we are a friendly crowd (ok most of the time) and if you choose us, we will supply a lot of tips!

jmatero

You guys won for sure! Love my new E350. I also want to say that KA's F10 exterior is the only way I would go with the 5series... Msport pkg. should be standard.

jdhoang

Offered $5k off MSRP for 2014 E550. OF course sales manager came out and gave me usual sales spiel about how it's a brand new car that hasn't been built yet, ya da da.. They didn't bother to counter offer so I guess they don't need the business. Thought this wasn't unreasonable as someone posted on Edmunds they got $2k off invoice with USAA and MBCA discounts.

Oh well - there are five/six other MB dealers in the area.

ImInPA

I prefer the F10 BMW with chrome surrounds around the windows. Helps break up a rather boring profile and adds a little pinache. The FL E looks great in person. I really think that when the new C and E come to market, the MB sedan range will be far more tied together.

K-A

Hahaha. "Brag/Complain", that's a brilliant description of the BMW culture. I haven't found much to complain about yet, but my nature is to be nit picky and complain, so "Brag/Complain" will surely describe me as well in the future.

jmatero: I too would only buy an F10 with an M Sport Package, BUT, I would have never gotten one if the M Sport was standard. One of the things that tired me of the W212 is how you can't have one that stands out anymore, they ALL have the Sport Package (which was once called an "AMG Sport Package" when M-B used to charge for it) which now is simply the generic/standard which everyone from enthusiasts to soccer moms will have. Yes it gives the W212 a better all around presence on the road, as you don't see any "duds" as the pre-facelift Sport looks great, but on the other hand, an enthusiast like myself sees myself way too often, and I feel it diminishes the presence of the car as it gets normalized.

The F10 follows the way I like German manufacturers to go about. The standard body is elegant, simple, a "clean slate", fit for those who want to buy into the brand and have the qualities of the car, but not make any statements. Then you can pay up for the M Sport to make your car stand out more, be "alien" on the roads, you can walk up to a group of F10's, or be sitting in traffic in a row of them, and feel your enthusiast bones ticked because yours is the "M Sport". I couldn't get that out of my E, unfortunately.

Also, I feel these brands should take pride in their "M" or "AMG" looks. To give out the AMG look for free, it makes it more unspecial to me. I think BMW charging for the M Sport Package means they acknowledge you need to WANT it to get it, and those like me who do, will happily pay for it. I'd rather pay for a Sport Package and have it be more unique than not pay for it and have it overly blend in, JMO.

no_mulligan

Wikipedia...Modern definition of "enthusiasts" are adventurous, constantly busy with many activities with all the energy and enthusiasm of the Puer Aeternus (Peter Pan Complex). At their best they grab life for its different joys and wonders and truly live in the moment but, at their worst, they dash trepidatiously from one new endeavor to another, too scared of disappointment to actually enjoy themselves. Enthusiasts fear being incapable to provide for themselves or to experience life fully.

Wikipedia...A snob believes that some people are inherently inferior to him or her for any one of a variety of reasons, including real or supposed intellect, wealth, education, ancestry, power, physical strength, class, taste, beauty, nationality, et cetera

You really can't enjoy what you drive if too many around you have the same thing, huh?

OldBoldPilot

Can't help you with the rest of it, but eyeglass storage is right down between your legs -- in the little cubby at the front of the seat. At least, that's what I use it for (the cubby, that is )

K-A

Nope.

I'm a fan of variety and diversity. In the realm of cars, anything remotely "affordable" to enough masses and with a good track record will be ubiquitous. It's up to the manufacturers to support those like myself who would like to be set apart from the hoards as much as possible, those willing to pay a slight premium for it even. It keeps things fresh, interesting, and attracts various people to a brand. It's boring when everybody gets the same packages crammed down their throats therefore making every car look identical to one another.

It isn't about being able to "afford" these packages as they are only several thousand, if that, more than a standard fare version, however it's about supporting those who are enthusiasts of the model, therefore would like to see different variations conveying what various people are buying the cars for.

We're all driving popular cars, however what sets apart Premium brands from "Economy brands" is that they stray away from the "Fleet look" as much as possible. They disguise how many of their cars are out there by conveying a passion by way of letting you equip what are accessible cars, "un-accessibly". It's all in the mind (and there are performance benefits to it as well, so it's tangible), which of course is all that really matters.

Nuru

Thanks for the clarification