K-A

Imo it's a sad day when people buy MB's because they cost less, and that's been the driving force between the E Class this gen vs the 5 Series and the way MB has been taking its brand in general. There's really a reason why the market prices the E350 less and discounts it more, if you ask me, vs a 535i. However results will vary per person. If you like the E more, you'll find it a bargain at its insane constant discount pricing and come out way ahead.

Dema

I can't agree more. People buy Camry because can't afford Lexus, we can see tons of example when people sacrifice own desires because price. I believe that in future when money become obsolete, people will drive BMW only.

El Cid

The E class is priced low because that is closer to what it is worth. MBUSA, DAG and dealers still make a very handsome profit off E class sales, even when discounted. Same applies to BMW, but people are more willing to pay the price for the BMW badge right now. BMW is not worth what it costs.
People buy Camrys because they cost less, but also because they are a much more financially sensible investment. More reliable and far lower cost to own. And they are equipped pretty damn nicely as well.
It's all a matter of how you wish to spend your money. For some it is expensive,flashy cars with "prestige" badges; for others it is big houses; for others, it's for their children, etc.
However, there are many of us who purchase a car for how it makes us feel-and MB, BMW, Lexus, et. al. have been capitalizing on that for decades. Before them it was Cadillac, Lincoln, Packard, etc. We overpaid, but we knew what we were doing.
BTW, money will never be obsolete. Bartering is alternative and that only worked for cavemen.

Benzinini

Its interesting how some from "the other side" seem to imply that all who buy an E class as opposed to a 5 Series only do this because they can't afford to pay an additional $50 /month or so to lease or buy a 5 series? The bottom line is that most seem to prefer the E350 over a comparably equipped 5 series and would probably do the same if it cost more, hard as it may seem to accept this. I for one could afford to drive a much more expensive car but chose the E class because it suits my needs and I prefer it to the 5 series .Period.There are also some that buy Camrys and Accords not just because they can't afford more expensive cars but because it suits their needs just as El Cid has pointed out.It's futile coming on to a MB board trying to convince people time after time that they have made the wrong choice because YOUdeem it so.

Munich77

Could not have said it better. I had a BMW before and the current 5 series did not suit me.

pamiboy

Very true. It applies to most of us here. If you check our initial car buying threads, you'll know that we all have cross shopped the 5 series but found the E class better suited for our needs and desires.

El Cid

I cross shopped Audi 6 and 8, Lexus GS and LS, Acura RL and Infiniti M when I was looking. Did not consider BMW because it has never appealed to me regardless of cost.
Also, I could have just as easily afforded an "S" or an AMG, but not what I wanted.

KEY08

^ concur. I have owned every marquee on the planet at one time or another, because I go through cars like water and am a car geek(plus I'm an old guy). I have had multiple MB, Porsche, VW, British, Japan, Italian, etc. Driven plenty of BMW cars, but never owned one. There has never been an appeal there for me to want to actually purchase one and it has nothing to do with money.

pcsgrp

I went to a BMW dealer to purchase a 5 series some time ago. I had an appointment to have my wife do a test drive to see if she liked it. We both had been working around the house with the kids and it was a very hot summer day so we were in shorts and t-shirts. When I walked in and told them I was there for a test drive, the a-hole weekend sales person told me that "we don't give test drives" With shock I told them that we had an appointment with a specific sales person and were told to come at this time. Needless to say I was blown off so I went to a different BMW dealer, was treated as someone who was going to buy a car, did a test drive and purchased the car that same day. A few days later, the sales person called and asked when I was going to come in and do a test drive. I told him what happened and that I was not very happy about the way I was treated and purchased a car at another dealer. Move ahead to 2013 when I went shopping for a new car. Went to that same dealer and got the run around again. Sales people didn't have a clue about the technical aspects of the 5 series and tried to blow smoke up my rear. All they wanted to do was figure out how much I could spend a month and move me into whatever they had that fit that budget! Of course being retired, I looked a little messy, needed a shave an a haircut but still that is no excuse. Went to a MB dealer looking the same and got the same jerk around so we walked out. The next day went to another BMW and MB dealer. Same experience at the BMW showroom but the MB dealership treated us as a customer looking at a such a car should be treated. Decided to get the car there although it was 45 minutes from home and was very satisfied with the dealership's knowledge, the deal and the service department. Last December when I decided to get a M-class for myself, I decided to go back to a MB dealer closer to me and was treated the same outstanding way. Perhaps BMW trains their sales people differently since I did notice a clear difference between the way I was treated except for the one MB dealership I went to first. Oh, that dealership I went to first, changed ownership and is actually now owned by the owner of the BMW dealership where I went and picked up my 5 series.

ss3964spd

In the 30-40K range where I was looking to stay there simply aren't many V8 RWD 4 door sedans to choose from. So when I was recently shopping to replace my totaled 2005 E500 I had already narrowed the field to the 2011-2012 E550 and the 550i. Cost was not the driving concern but certainly was a factor for consideration. I was actually surprised that the 550i was considerably more expensive.

Based on visuals alone I actually prefer the 550i, exterior and interior. I was a little disappointed in the ho-hum wheels BMW has been fitting to the 5 (boring, and difficult to clean), and really didn't like that they have run flats (had read enough horror stories). Finally, turbos were also a concern - as I'd also read of the issues BMW was having with them. I drove a 535 - evidently a non-sport, and was less than impressed with the dynamics. I crossed the 550i off the list. I drove a NA E550 and a TT E550. The TT felt great once I got it spooled up but didn't feel that much stronger than the NA 550, and for me not enough to deal with potential extra purchase and maintenance costs.

I went to only 3 dealers in person. 1st was a MB dealer, to which I arrived wearing shorts, tee shirt, and flip flops and driving my '66 Impala convertible. Was treated well, and the car drew out the entire used car sales staff. They didn't have what I wanted but they took my name and number. Never heard back from them. Shopped CarMax in shorts/T/flops, (where I drove the TTE550 and the 535i) and was treated well. Arrived at the BMW dealer - from which I bought my E550, wearing basically the same garb, but was driving my honey do pick up truck. Sales guy was initially a little stand off-ish I felt but once he got a feel for me I was also treated well.

Dan

instantfob

Oh that note I just put my 5 series up on leasetrader but I am going keep my garage nicely divided Munich vs Stuttgart

Airmousam

Dont know much about bmw other than 3 buddies having a lot of issues with brand new 3 series a few years ago...one went to benz, one to Infinity and the other lexus...theyve have been happy. A guy I know in CA just got his M3 in yesterday after waiting 6 months. Holy chit instant pants tent...love it!!

K-A

I'm not implying that the everyone gets the E Class only because it's cheaper, but the majority of buyers will almost certainly have that as one leading factor. The market usually doesn't lie in this area, and there's a reason why the 535i is more expensive in actual selling price and doesn't need the same amount of insane incentives. I know someone who just leased an E350 for $399. The cars are given away for midsize economy Sedan pricing, and there's a reason for that, just like there is why M-B did such an uncharacteristically extensive facelift (which gets discounted just like the pre-facelift).

Maybe the current E isn't agreeable to the masses enough to command anywhere near its selling price as much as the 5 is, which makes sense as the 5 is a more agreeable looking car, and didn't need such an extensive facelift, so isn't practically split into "two models" within the same generation. However, that's not to say that people who are enthusiasts of the E and actually DO like it more than the 5, aren't getting an insane value considering they/you can take advantage of the marketplaces pricing of the car. That was the point I made above.

Dema

Move to California and you never will be treated based on what you wear. There are many very rich kids working for Google or Yahoo but dressed like living under the bridge. I would say you get treated in opposite, if you arrive in tuxedo in Mountain View BMW, then more likely you will be treated really poor, do not expect even see a car, but if you wear dirty jeans and t-shirt full of holes, you can expect you will deserve at least a test drive.

wanderfalke

Apples to Apples is the e550 really cheaper than the 550i. Most of the E550's are clicking in at mid 70's and above. What kind of dirt cheap discounts are people here talking about. I had to work for mine (discount) because the dealer knew his were some of the last produced. Mine has a build date of 9/14.

ss3964spd

From my used car shopping experience I'd say yes, unequivocally.

Benzinini

These "insane incentives" of which you state, if they do exist at all..., are the exception not the norm. All you need to do to get an idea how much people are paying is visit one of the "prices paid" threads. I for one am paying over $600/month for my 2014 E, not because I am a bad negotiator, but because this is the price I am comfortable paying for the vehicle. I am willing to bet most here are paying more than you do for your 5 series. the problem here is that you make statements such as " the 5 is a more agreeable looking car" which implies this is a universally accepted fact and those that choose an E over the 5 series are "settling" because they may be able to get one at a fairer price than the 5. My point again is that I would rather pay $600/ month for an E than pay $399/month for a 5 series. The vehicle just has zero appeal to me and possibly some of those getting them at "insanely discounted" rates.
Also, the "extensive face lift" you disagree with seems to be loved by many, and was done not because Mercedes lost faith in the pre face lift W212, but to keep the model more in line with the new C and S classes before the W213 is released. Maybe BMW needs to learn something from MB judging by the recent pathetic sales numbers for the 5 . I understand your enthusiasm for whatever vehicle you are currently driving K-A but you need to ease off on the E class hating a little bit.

instantfob

Don't forget that MBZ allows people to a la carte the features that BMW baked into the pricing.

BMWAssist (mBRACE) = mBRACE is charges monthly while BMW baked it into the car during warranty period

Real-Time Traffic = MB needs drivers to self-subscribe with Satellite Radio Company while BMW baked it in for life. (multi-feed system HD Radio / Sat)

"Free" Service = BMW baked it in as well while MB offers them as optional (BMW cuts back on that now for original owner only... sorry carmax...)

When you add up all these cost. They lease around for the same money.

K-A

An extensive facelift is always done because someone was not happy with something. And if it also had to do with getting closer to other models, then that also shows an uncharacteristically messy about-face design language change that you rarely see from successful premium manufacturers, especially not historically Mercedes. I'm not saying that people don't love it, but that's just how it works. Nobody invests into facelifts like that without there being some problem behind closed doors, and it's pretty well known that M-B felt they had to change things around (losing the top selling spot to the 5 Series worldwide for the first time ever was obviously also a catalyst). Many people also think for the worse, and immediate facelift incentives for a car they tried to slyly market as "the all new E Class" (which also says a lot) shows that, IMO.

I'm the first person to say that a W212 or any E Class should lease for its original price. I think it's pathetic that M-B ***** out its leasing program so much. There are many people paying $400-ish a month (I've even heard less than that) with no money down, for an E Class! I'm not even bashing the car, I'm saying that M-B seems to not have enough confidence in their own cars to set some kind of sales standard. Very short sighted of them. One of the reasons M-B gained its success is because of resale values and how well cars aged on the market place. With the extensive facelift, and insane discounts, they've really hurt the E's nameplate on that front, at least to me. Resale value of the W212 is also terrible due to that.

It's not "hate", there's no secret that it got extensively face lifted, and that it gets leased for prices that some people pay for 328i's or even close enough to fully loaded Accord type cars. That all started with the W212 gen for the E Class.

K-A

What I'm saying is that this E Class, any E Class deserves better treatment than this "fleet car" approach they've taken in order to desperately show higher sales figures for the U.S. Putting the Coupe (that's an "E" in name only) bundled into E sales already makes it a not accurate comparison vs the 5. And then the segment leading discounts and incentives don't do the car justice. As an enthusiast I don't care about sales figures (I'll let corporate worry about that) but the long term regard for a car that stems largely from how the manufacturer treated it. In that aspect, MBUSA has been very short sighted with the W212 gen, IMO.

Another factor to me personally is putting the "Sport Package" on all of them for free, thus detracting the specialness of that look. All proper premium cars have enthusiast oriented packages that you can pay up for to stand apart from the masses of non enthusiasts driving these cars. MBUSA being okay with all E's looking virtually identical this generation follows that "fleet car" mentality. Interestingly enough, it appears MBUSA acknowledges that and has gone back to providing a variety of aesthetic packages and markup for the Sport Package on the new C Class. To me, that instantly gives it a more premium, diverse treatment (and hey, boosts their margins too, so it'll please shareholders). So I imagine they'll go back to that on the next E as well.

GundamE550

Part of the reason why that I've been told by dealers friends is because 2014 is the highest with low trim bare bone luxury sales, I don't think BMW gives you a lot with lower trims.

Germancar1

So much misinformation in this thread it is hilarious.

M

Johnny Rad

Shoe on the other foot this month.

http://247wallst.com/autos/2014/11/0...es-in-october/

aeroconfigs

I'm not happy with MB's recent trend of these small cheap luxury cars like the cla and gla. The cla is ugly to me and just seems like the quality isn't there. I'd agree with K-A that they seem to be trying to stretch down market for sales. Also, after driving the facelifted 212 I wasn't impressed, and was happy to get back to my 2010 model. Their strategy may pay off in the short term but it could induce long term damage to the brand if the cla quality turns out to be as poor as it seems.

schorert1

building a brand isn't always pretty. The design cues from these lower end cars (specifically the "Ipad stuck to the dash" look) will permeate up to all levels. The GLA looked very "cheap" to me, especially with the plastic/aluminum trim bits. I sat in a cla that had striped fabric seats...ugh. but they're appealing to a younger demo.

what they want, is for customers like you to move up to CLS or S class, and some car reviewers say that any MB below $70k just like any car from any japanese or american manufacturer. My wife, not a car buff, won't trade for another E class, but is looking CLS.