Wig

Agreed.

Every time a new model is coming, there is a mountain of criticism and lamenting of the passing of the old model. People rush out to get a "deal" on the leftover models.

Then, people slowly realize they actually like the new design, and start to praise it.

Then, after a while, they declare it's the best C / E / S ever.

This has been the way it's happened ever since internet forums first appeared.

Quadcammer

that is fantastic.

Combine that with a nice interior and I'm sold.

BeachBunny

Let's take a look at that.. Factoring in inflation, your $57,000 car in 2010 would be $61,883 in 2014 dollars. So, add in another year and a half of inflation and you're at $85,089 with just inflation and no price hikes from Merc.

Looking at it another way, base 2005 E320 MSRP was $51,000. In today's dollars that'd be $61,820. MSRP on a 2015 E350 is $51,800, so the current E350 is actually LESS than the 2005 was.

So for what you're observing, don't blame Mercedes, blame your Congresscritters and DC politicians.

Alex.currie44

My understanding is the car will be available in the fall of 2016 as a 2017 model.
I am waiting to see the E coupe this coming fall.
It hopefully will not be a dollied up ML but on something other than a truck chassis.

K-A

The main issue with that is how if they increase MSRP, the market responds so swiftly against it that they have to push insane discounts, which are not only an unbecoming look for anything other than a discount-brand, but is horrible for "resale" value which in itself becomes a long lost word especially for a volume manufacturer with a majority lease propensity.

The new C immediately started getting discounts reported to reach the 20%tile, which is nuts for a brand new launch, or any car for that matter. Hot brand new cars should be commanding list price.

They keep intensely discounting, then the market gets used to it, and now they're stuck with being "Mercedes where you can get 15-20% off of a brand new car", so they raise MSRP (as many car manufacturers do, to be fair) yet all that means is that the next gen with the higher price now becomes a new record for discounting. It's a terrible service to the cars.

Basically, what this does is create a very large gap between the MSRP and market value of the car. Back in the day, the E might actually be considered worth paying $50+K as a base price to the larger market, while now, the market has been trained otherwise by the manufacturer themselves.

If that render is accurate, and it probably in theory is, then it's obvious M-B are going back to a W203/W211/W220 likeness in terms of how similar the models look. The W203 and W211 are damn near impossible for anyone who doesn't know the very subtle specific design traits of each to tell apart from a distance (the front is obviously the highest giveaway, but the sides you'd almost have to go as far as noting the W211's taillights are rounded at the corners), and already until you register the proportions, the W205's and W222's are almost interchangeable. The W213 bringing in a resized version of the same design into the mix is gonna make for a helluva family lineage, or redundancy, depending on how you feel about it.

An issue I have with that is how back in the day, Mercedes and BMW were practically boutique compared to what they are now. You already see so much of each individual model that making all 3 look practically the same renders that general body style as ubiquitous as the most ubiquitous cars you'll find on the road.

K-A

BTW, I LOVE those old school classic style gauges. I doubt they'll make it to production, but I love them for some reason. In this day and age, reintroducing analogue and elegant mechanical bits is a great way to add some tangible beauty and richness as well as character and emotion, if not an engaging and visceral, raw effect. I know that's not really Mercedes' MO, but it'd be a pleasant shock if they bucked industry trends and went with a classic and clean analogue setup. The current one is analogue, but the one pictured above on the interior mule looks almost legitimate 60's, or maybe 80's, in a cool way. Adds some depth, imo.

petee1997

All Euro manufacturers can afford to discount in the US market. With the appreciation of the US dollar and low euro currency, the Germans have an extra 25% margin to play with.

K-A

They started the fire-sale model long before the dollar crept back up, in fact it started around when the dollar was at its lowest. I don't think the dollar has much to do with it, other than maybe now they'll start even going further than the 20% that have been pretty common thus far, on many models. It seems to just be their way of business and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they devalued their cars to the market, or were forced to, etc., because the market picks the price based on their demand vs the supply, etc.

Now, they won't lose nearly as much, and will probably recoup a lot of the thinner margins sacrificed when they were giving them away even with a lousy dollar, but the dollars movement doesn't really change their practice (just their profits).

Issue is, when one guy does it, the rest have to follow. So it's kind of a race to the bottom. it's like a Nightclub on a block who doesn't offer cover charge while all the rest have for years. Eventually, they'll likely have to follow suit as the first one "ruined" it for all of them.

fintail

20% common in the absurd fantasyland of southern California, maybe.

Remember, these are volume products punched out as fast as reasonably possible in a monolithic factory, not handbuilt by elves in a hollow tree. The margins are huge, and brand equity is so huge, that if you cut prices by 10% but increase sales by 30%, you'll survive indefinitely. IMO, the mythos of hardline exclusivity has died some in this brave new world, and will continue to do so.

I'd expect W213 prices to creep up at least a few percent, although there will still be lease deals. I also expect a large W222 screen for simu-gauges and other controls. MB hasn't embraced the retro thing too much, maybe not falling for the look, which while it can be cool, is mostly hyped "emotion" via egoistic designers and cookie cutter MBA types. If they really wanted a heritage style, they should go with stacked lights, tailfins, a vertical speedometer or at least the binnacle out of a W111 coupe.

Alex.currie44

Unbeliveable discussion. The only time I have seen such discounts is when I bought my 2009 W211 E350 wagon. 18% but I bought it unseen expecting it to be the same inside as my 2003 E320 sedan.
The de-contenting drove me nuts to the point I couldn't wait to dump it.
Back in the day when I got my first E class in 1987 (W124) and even the second one in 1993 these cars held their value. I traded the 1993 in at nearly 9 years of age and 300000km on the odometer for $9500. If I had the time and sold it privately I could have got 5 figures easily.
Contrast that to a 4 yr old E350 4 Matic wagon with only 55000 km on the odometer for which I got offered $30000 in trade this week. I don't recall the list on the W124 but for sure when I traded it in I got a higher percentage than I am being offered.
The other point I wanted to make is - and this is a personal thing - when the W210 came out I felt they had missed the boat. Never liked the car. In addition a lot of things like remote key open used IR and all those little sensors sticking out of the body looked like after thoughts when overs had RF system.
My guess is on the W213 we may see more of that kind of thinking.

alfred8

this is what's to be expected of the next gen 5 series. a pop up central screen

alsyli

Probably not, actually. Not entirely sure how Canadian to U.S. dollar conversion works, but our 1990 300E (U.S. model) had an MSRP of $47000. Doubt the price went up that much in 3 yrs. And cars tend to depreciate much more per yr in the 1-2 yrs than, say at 7-9 yrs after purchase.

I find the discussion of price creep to be laughable. The W205 C300 is nearly the same size as our W124, has 70 more hp, has much more safety equipment, and, once you add in enough options to bring the MSRP to $50,000, is much better equipped than our old 300E. It's probably not as large inside as the 300E was, but....

The W213 will likely nearly be the size of the short wheelbase W126 models.

Alex.currie44

Can someone explain to me why we have to have a tablet sticking up over the IP rather than in the IP itself? What is the issue here?

Tjdehya

Do you want someone to explain the random wires too?

gmeup

Can not wait for the new E-Class, will buy a E63 so long as it looks good. IMO the w211 was the best looking E class followed by the W124.

Alex.currie44

No., Smart *** I know what they are but pics I have seen of the IP have - as do many of the newer cars - a tablet sized screen sitting proud of the IP lip in place of a screen within the dash. They are built that way and from early pics of the interior of the next E it will have the same feature. e.g. C, CLA GLA

wanderfalke

What is a IP?

Airmousam

Instrument panel

alsyli

Because it places the screen more in line of sight for the driver and also avoids the ugly double hump look of earlier BMW's? Or the more massive dashboards of the S-Class, Lexus GS/LS (the avoidance of which presumably leads to a more airy interior)?

I'm not sure how you've determined the next E-Class will have the floating screen since, based on the spy pics, it looks very much like the E-Class will have integrated screen like the S-Class....

Alex.currie44

Instrument Panel.

PeterUbers

These threads crack me up

These c, e... Whatever classes sell well regardless of a few forum enthusiasts that gripe about a few items

Just goes to show you that Benz generally knows what they're doing ... Exxxxxcccept the cla/gla lol

Alex.currie44

Saw a pic on line a month or two back. The car is not through development until it hits the street so you could be right.
I have never found it an issue to see it in the W212.

alsyli

Not sure if you're responding to my post or not....

You say that it's never been an issue in your W212. And that's sort of the point, right? Your screen in the W212 is probably in about the same place as the floating screen is for the W205 (or in whatever BMW interior is pictured above). It's more of an issue of integrating the screen within the dash itself or having it be a separate screen. IMO, the double or elongated hump that results from it being integrated is really ungainly. Of course, without it being integrated, you don't get the built-in shade to prevent the screen from being washed out in sunlight.

I assume part of the reason the floating screens may become more prevalent in non-flagship sedans is b/c manufacturers can upgrade the screen more easily without having to re-design the dash substantially.

B5chung

+1

Diamond White W212

Personally I've always preferred the double hump dash that shades the screen. The new generation of stand alone screens in BMW and Mercedes look like an afterthought to me. Like they designed an IP an said "Oh we forgot the Nav screen....just stick it ...THERE"