El Cid

I am speaking about the US market, not Canada and not Europe. It does cost more to service diesels here than it does for comparable gas cars.
MB/DAG commercial vehicles are mostly large trucks, not cars. Are there any diesel taxis in US? I've never seen one, not even an American diesel.
The sole advantage to diesels is their higher MPG and that really doesn't matter to most Americans truth be known. The ones who do care about it, purchase the Asian and American economy cars that cost less to purchase and have much lower cost to own.
Why spend $10,000-30,000 more for a "luxury" car if you are looking to save money? Especially with gas at $1.28 per gal. and expected to come down soon.
As for resale, I would guess that diesels have less return on investment than gas in US. They are higher on used car market because they cost more to start with.

looney100

The economics are much easier in Canada. The E250BT is priced lower than the E350, and last time I visited the service station to fill up, diesel was 13 cents/litre cheaper than gasoline.
Fuel economy in the E250 is incredible. It was an easy call, didn't even consider a 350 or 550. (In the market for an E63 for myself).

listerone

Diesels,IMO,are beautifully suited for America's (and Canada's) wide open spaces.I've been driving them for 6 years now...with 90% of my miles having been traveled at 70mph.From the top of Mount Evans,Colorado (14,100 feet above sea level) to the flat,sea level stretch of I-95 from NC to FL...and in the -40F/-40C nights of Central Quebec...they've all performed flawlessly.Of course not all Americans (or Canadians) spend a lot of time at 70mph and that,IMO,is part of the problem.Diesels aren't particularly well suited for short commutes to the office or the supermarket.

Also,many Americans (and Canadians?) remember those horrible GM diesels of the '70s and the billowing black exhaust from the Volvos and Benzes of the 80's.

Arrie

I must disagree with your statement about diesel suitability for short commutes to the office or supermarket. Diesel cars show a bigger benefit over gasoline engines in fuel mileage during city driving with frequent stops. This is because of the way higher torque the engine gives with low rpm meaning you don't need to overly gas it up to get going like you do with the gasoline engine car.

listerone

I get to Quebec (Montreal and points north) on a semi regular basis.I'm always struck by the fact that I see more Bluetecs,TDIs and "d"s in 6 hours of traveling Autoroutes 55 & 10 than I see in a month traveling the roads of NYC and Boston (which I do regularly).

listerone

When I say that I'm thinking more along the lines of long term longevity.As you surely know diesels take longer to reach optimum operating temps than do gassers...diesels run "cooler".And "cooler" is seldom a good thing for any internal combustion engine.In the long term,at least.

Arrie

You worry too much about the engine temp. Europe has run diesel for the past 30+ years in big cities where people do short commutes and it has never been an issue with engine life or anything. Of course the engine temp has to do with the engines performance but I don't think any diesel with any temperature will perform worse than a comparably sized gasoline engine with the optimum engine temperature.

Hifidude

All I know is my local MB mechanic, who used to run the service dept at a nearby stealership, has gone totally diesel with his family's cars (4 diesels).....and that's enough endorsement for me.

El Cid

Since he has his own garage, I am sure his cost to own is not the consideration it is for most of us.
Glad there are people who like diesels, but lots of people don't and don't want them. It's all a matter of choice.

shortspark

I went through this exercise of diesel vs gas three years ago when I bought my ML350. I did the pro/con thing and the gas version won out. Diesel motors are known for longevity with some people saying it takes 30,000 miles to break them in totally. I put on 8,000 miles a year on my cars and trade when the warranty runs out so "longevity" was not a factor. Ditto gas mileage for the same reason. I live in the sticks and seldom venture on interstates where a diesel eats up big chunks of highway, rather, I drive 90% country roads.

Besides these factors, I also do not tow or haul anything. Although the gas version and diesel were rated about the same for tow weights, I realize the diesel tows much more effortlessly. But again, it was a non factor for me. Also, at the time at least, diesel was much more expensive than premium, not to mention the additional $1500 increase on the sticker price for diesel.

So, why do I want a diesel this time around, especially if I trade for an Eclass? Because in 50 years of driving I have never owned one and my curiosity has the best of me. Stupid reason I know but has anyone purchased a diesel just to try it?

Abrown3mtg

Diesel quality, cost, and biggest being fewer model and feature offerings put me out of the market (4matic was an absolute must for me).

I have had a few diesel trucks and definitely see the benefits, cold weather also does play a role as diesel is harder to start in severe sub zero environments....

El Cid

Diesels? We don't need no stinking diesels. Sorry, couldn't resist. This is a parody of the line from movie Sierra Madre. Actual line is: "Badges? We don't need no stinking badges" for those who aren't familiar with it.

looney100

We've started our E250 Bluetec 4Matic in -25C weather without a block heater and with no problem whatsoever.
Cold weather operability is not a problem.

DerekACS

Yes, another diesel myth dispelled. I have yet to read of any MB W212 diesel owner complaining about hard starting in sub-zero temperatures.

There is so much misinformation on diesels !
The Japanese manufacturers of Hybrids have been especially active is spreading misinformation via printed advertisements; Toyota has probably been the most aggressive with full page anti-diesel ads in magazines such as National Geographic.

audi40

Got my A6 TDI in August 2013 and was immediately "hooked" on diesel for all the reasons mentioned previously. Got my wife into an ML350 BT less than a year later. Not going back to gas anytime soon...

Abrown3mtg

I wish I could have found a diesel 4matic. That would have been my first pick.

Opinion on diesels and cold weather starting where based on several trucks I owned. I don't doubt the Mercedes fired right up though. I feel the newest releases of vehicles have resolved many of the issues, however it still warranted mention as I DID consider it personally.

ChuckinTucson

I know recently that the price of diesel was higher than gasoline in the US, but not sure what happened, but yesterday in Arizona, diesel was $.50 cheaper than the lowest priced gasoline, and today here in Los Angeles, diesel is $1.00 less than the cheapest gasoline.

Arrie

So, what is the price for a gallon of lowest grade gasoline in your area?

E 200 CDI

Toyota have a little problems in Europe, they don't sell so much cars here as they did before.
Now Kia is bigger than Toyota in Sweden for example, and that is beacause Kia has understand that good Diesel engines are very importent.
We don't care about gasoline Hybrids, we drive Diesels.
Toyota has not understand that yet..

Hifidude

I'm in Southern California....gases up yesterday with diesel @2.85 gallon. For comparison, regular was at 3.89.

It isn't always this far of a spread, but in my area gas is nearly always more. A full buck is crazy though.

Arrie

So the diesel is at the same price level as most of the country. It is the gasoline that has been jacked up probably by taxes. They cannot do this with diesel as the trucking industry would go nuts over it. Then, if the regular was $3.89 then premium had to be something like $4.10?


It is no brainer what type of engine should be used in California. If we take an E350 gasoline model that gives you 26 MPG on highway it means cost / mile is 15.8 cents.


E350 with a diesel engine gives you 38 MPG that equals to 7.5 cents / mile.


Diesel car cost / mile is only half of the gasoline car cost / mile. And in city traffic the difference is even bigger as the fuel mileage difference gets bigger.


California is what Europe used to be and somewhat still is with the fuel price difference between gasoline and diesel. Wonder when people in that state wake up and start buying diesel cars...

DerekACS

Unfortunately, the reality is, as El Cid stated above in post #26:
"higher MPG.....really doesn't matter to most Americans."

This seems to be especially so with luxury car buyers who for the most part want the largest HP gas engine that they can possibly afford. In terms of conserving fuel and reducing emissions, the wasteful attitudes of most North American drivers stand in contrast to Europe.

thefisch

Never owned a diesel myself. Some of my impressions of diesels are old stigmas. I remember 20 years ago that only a few stations offered diesel fuel so it was harder to find. I also remember driving through the clouds of black smoke from diesels in front of me trying to quickly press the recirculate switch (still see that happen sometimes but not nearly as often).

Today, I know many friends who have diesels and none of those old stigmas still apply. Saving on fuel is great especially if you drive a bunch of miles and fuel is more expensive in your part of the country. Most people don't look at mpg, they look at how much they pay at the pump. Regular gas is 10-20 cents cheaper than diesel in my area right now and most will not want a diesel because they see the fuel as more expensive. They don't have the brain cells to do the math and factor in mpg.

But the gas savings are always not enough for everyone. I drove a Prius for 8 years a never got below 45mpg and often hit the high 50's. I spent $600-800 a year on gas. My first year with my E550 I spent $1,400 on gas driving my normal average amount of miles. The smile on my face when I drive my car is worth every penny.

Arrie

Well, I didn't mean just luxury car buyers but in general. But the fact is that there isn't many diesel car models to choose from either. For a "non-luxury" family car it may be VW only that sells diesels? Is there someone else?


They should do some ads educating people about the fuel cost / mile and get people's heads away from just thinking about the price of a gallon. And in California there should not be even education needed as it seems diesel is way cheaper / gallon than gasoline.


I don't think it is the wasteful attitudes of American drivers either. Diesel cars just have not been on the market here as gasoline price has been so low. And the old diesel myths still weight lots in the scale, myths that have nothing to do with the reality today.

DerekACS

You are correct - there is not a wide choice of diesel models to choose from in North America. At the low price end, there is the Chevy Cruze. Then it's the VW Jetta/Golf/Passat TDI and in the mid-upper price bracket, there is Audi, BMW and Mercedes with very limited choices.

Unfortunately, old diesel myths do still exist, especially in the US.