trimix

Can i get an opinion on the which is a better or the differences between the Mercedes 2013 E350BTC and the 2014 E250BTC4?

I am looking to upgrade my 2005 e320cdi.

Thanks for the help.

Trimix

DubVBenz

The main differences you'll find are the engine. While the newer one makes similar figures on paper, it'll never perform as well (as evidenced by the 0-60 times) and finding a tune that'll make it perform as well as a tuned 6-cylinder will be impossible (I've been searching). Couple that with an already heavier car , and it'll be significantly slower than your 320. Even the 6 Cylinder will be slower thanks to the weight, but at least it'll get greater gains from a tuning box or ecu.

In terms of everything else, I really prefer the facelifted W212. Updated infotainment, refined interior with better looking switchgear. More modern looking exterior.

I'm a 211 Bluetec guy. I want to upgrade as well, but the 212 pre-facelift just has an extremely outdated infotainment system and cheaper looking interior. The 212 facelift (with the 4-cyl) diesel seems to be a big improvement looks-wise, but I just couldn't bring myself to get a slower diesel than the one I already have. However, the mileage will be significantly better than either previous 6-cylinder diesel MB has sold.

I really wish they'd put the revised OM642 240HP diesel in the facelift. Had they done so, that would be my next car, rather than a 535D or 221 Bluetec.

trimix

So if you had a choice which one would you go with? I really like to upgrade my 2005 e320 cdi but i just can not wrap my head around 4 cylinders. I also drive a Sl600 so having a car with 8 cylinders less does not really do it for me. Do they make tunes for the E250?

DubVBenz

They do make tunes for the E250, but they won't net as much as a tune for the E350 will.

The W221 Bluetec has revised heads and a different turbo, so stock it makes 240Hp/455 FtLbs, but it also weighs about 800 lbs more.

Honestly, I'm probably just going to go with a F10 2014/2015 535D when the successor is released. It already makes 250ish HP and 410 FtLbs, is inline, has a universally praised 8-Speed ZF, actual shift gate and responds pretty nicely to tunes. I'm just hoping BMW worked out the carbon buildup issues they had with the earlier twin-turbo version of that engine. I personally think the interior of the F10 is nicer than the W212 of any year as well...

DubVBenz

For some reading regarding the BMW 535D (equivalent to the 530D in EU), here you go

http://jalopnik.com/2014-bmw-535d-th...iew-1466759461

Here's what DTUK claims: http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/...-258ps-us-spec

I've been running a similar tuning box on my OM642 bluetec for 5 years without major issues.

DubVBenz

This is what they claim on an E250 : http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/...f-stage2(crd-t)

Note, that's the european version that starts out with an additional 15HP to begin with. They didn't have the US-Spec listed.

Phoeny

Hi,the answer is one: if the displacement is a prerogative,take the v6!
But if you're looking for a dailydriver with a good mileage the 250 is not that bad: the EU spec I'm driving has 204bhp and 500nm( 7g tronic PLUS with manual mode),in terms of performance it takes 8,1 sec from 0-62mph and the robust torque is enough to overtake even with a loaded (passengers + full trunk) car

trimix

My daily drive is a e320 cdi with the Kleeman KD box . I have been very hesitant to upgrade to the E250 due to what MB did to the engine. Like taking out cylinders. I am just trying to get a feel if people are disappointed with the e250 lack of power. The e320bt is cheaper but the 250 has more bells and whistles.

DubVBenz

Stumbled on this while looking at E250 tuning options: http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/perfo...tuk-map-3.html

Looks like owners are reporting all sorts of limp mode conditions. I'm guessing the engine already has about everything that can be wrung out of it already extracted.

Don't know why MB dropped the 6-cyl e-class. S is simply too big.

DubVBenz

I'm sure it's an adequate, if not excellent driving experience, but definitely a step down if you're coming from a 3 liter version.

trimix

Its like ever time i think 4 cylinder diesel i think VW rabbit .

What a huge mistake taking the 6 cylinder out of the E-Class maybe its time for NON MB product.

beejAMG

not diesel but, I have a W212 E250 to replace my W211 E320, not much difference when it comes to power especially when the turbo kicks in. but i can double the petrol consumption if I wanted to, and based on that, id say its not a huge mistake but a smart move. if you want fast, get the 63.

CEB

Mercedes didn't drop that engine. MBUSA decided that the dismal diesel sales in the US needed a change. The smaller engine (still considered large in europe) is a robust engine that outlive most of the other bits on the car.

The best way of deciding that is to drive the 250 and compare it to the 320. I think the OP will be pleasantly surprised.

For the majority of drivers, the diesel is dead in the US. It makes no difference if it was VW that screwed the pooch but it killed diesel in the average US driver's mind.

But back to the topic - drive a 250 back to back with your car. If you like the 250, then look at, but don't drive, the 350. If you think that the 350 interior and exterior is good, then drive it .

But remember - a test drive can be deceiving. A new (or new to you) car will be nicer than your old one. You'll be impressed by the new features and you'll drive the car harder on the test drive than you normally would.

When I first drive a new car, I pick a route that has speed cameras so I don't get tempted to speed and focus on the car. Once I've narrowed it down to a couple of cars, I drive them on routes that don't have speed cameras. It might be an odd way of test driving cars but it has worked for me.

DerekACS

Your comment, "the diesel is dead", is simply not true for the North American market. There remain many 1000s of loyal diesel drivers, who appreciate the extra efficiency and the longer range for diesel powered vehicles. In Canada, for example, more than 60% of all MB SUVs sold have diesel power. MB will soon be adding more diesels to its North American line-up, e.g.. C250BT sedan for Canada and USA and C250BT4M wagon for Canada. With the introduction of the new GLC 300 SUV, there remain many would be purchasers waiting for the 300d version.

Having owned three versions of the diesel E Class (2008 E320, 2013 E350BT and 2015 E250BT4M), perhaps I can offer the OP some feedback.

First, the rationale for MB switching from V6 to I4 twin turbo. Two reasons for this decision: 1. to increase the CAFE and 2. to offer 4Matic as an option with diesel. The major reason why the E350BT sold in such few numbers was the lack of a 4Matic option for North America.

As for comparing the performance of the E350BT to the E250BT4M, around town the E250BT4M feels faster off the line. With negligible turbo lag and 4Matic, the E250BT4M easily out accelerates the E350BT to 50 kph or 30 mph. 0 - 60 mph is no contest with the E350BT pulling ahead. For highway passing situations, the E350BT is quicker, but not by much. On wet roads or in snow, of course, the E250BT with 4Matic is a much better handling car.

When comparing fuel economy, especially highway driving, the E250BT (RWD or 4Matic) is considerably more efficient than the V6.

The post facelift chassis (MY2014+) also offers a number of improvements, both exterior and interior: front and rear LED lighting, upgraded chassis structure, improved steering and transmission, better ride, upgraded dash components and Command system.

As others have said, it's best to test drive both the E350BT and the E250BT before you decide.

CEB

The Canadian market is far different from the US market. Canada is far more "European" where the automotive market is concerned even if the regulations are aligned with the US.

Diesels have always sold badly in the US. Their reputation is that they are noisy,stinky and pollute. Cadillac did their best to kill it in the 80's with a miserable junky diesel stuffed into a Sedan de Ville.

There has always been a loyal following of diesel (like me) in the US, but our numbers are insignificant.

Reading the VW forums it seems that there is a huge backlash amongst all but the most loyal dieselites.

I stand by my comment that diesel is dead in the US - with the exception of the loyal few and manufacturers will need to decide if it is worth it to support that demographic.

Me? I'd love 250 4matic wagon. I'd drive that thing until the wheels fell off.

Av8r3400

I got rid of my '12 Passat TDi for a '12 Mercedes V6 gasser due to the unreliability, poor fuel economy and lack of power from the little diesel in that car. I have been driving diesels exclusively since the 80s. They are great engines and very efficient, by design, but the modern "pollution control" requirements have destroyed nearly all advantages that diesel engines used to have.

Pretty sad, really.

looney100

I have both a 2014 E250 and 2015 E63.
Let's reframe this discussion and ask how well the E250 executes it's designed purpose. I would say nearly flawlessly. The fuel economy is unmatched in a vehicle of that size, the acceleration is more than adequate, I have never felt that I needed more power to execute a passing move. The ride is extremely comfortable and virtually silent, even at highway speeds.
To judge this car by its 0-60 times is simply wrong. We might as well start criticizing it for its poor off-roading capabilities or inability to tow an RV.
If you want a performance vehicle, buy an E63. If you want a comfortable, practical, unbelievably fuel efficient cruiser, the E250 is your car.
I enjoy driving the E250 almost as much as the E63 - but for completely different reasons.

When deciding between the two vehicles, you'll have to consider fairly different styling, price difference, and some very nice features available on the 2014 that weren't available in 2013.

Phoeny

Looney100 got the quid!
The 250 bt 4matic is a perfect cruiser and let me tell you how amazing the LED headlights are: far more accurate and powerful than the good old xenon lamps,driving by night is a pure pleasure and the automatic bright lights are really useful.
Fact is,in EU many people would choose a bigger engine( the 500 v8 is the perfect match imho) but gasoline price and an extreme high taxation (ie. in Italy you pay an extra tax over 250bhp) are forcing us to buy diesel engines...unfortunately.

DerekACS

Very well written and so true !!!

DerekACS

Your LED comments are spot on ! It amazes me just how many W212 sold in the United States do not have the amazing full LED package. In Canada, a W212 MY2014+ sold without the LED package is exceedingly rare. I could not imagine buying a W212 without the full LED package. You said it best: "driving by night is pure pleasure."

looney100

Well, the E250 is really my wife's, though I do end up driving it plenty. A truly enjoyable vehicle.

Phoeny

I think that is related to the different mentality: in Italy we tend to buy premium cars with a lot of extras,so MB offers a Premium pack with almost everything in it(it costs a lot); instead in Uk you'll find 90% of the w212 with normal headlights...
Due to the fact I'm shortsighted,I'll buy only full led equipped cars.

@looney100: in that case I'd rather take the AMG eheh. Thanks

jonUF02

They both sound boring... get a 550.

navlancer

I'm a newbie. I've owned gas vehicles my entire life, engines big and small, turbo and non.

I just picked up my CPO '14 e250 4matic in DC yesterday, and did the 4 hour drive back to New York.

Listen, I get it if you are spoiled, and love the power/performance a larger engine. But I have no complaints. In my four hour drive home, which included some stop and go traffic, some winding roads, all within pouring rain, these are my first day experiences in practical situations:

*Power when you need it to pass, change lanes, especially to avoid the stone chips throwing big-rigs.
*I paid at the toll both cash, as was back up to 80mph before I knew it
*I had no idea I was pushing 95 at one point, grinned to myself and hit the brakes (because speeding is wrong!)
*Not that it matters in this thread, but I love the blind spot assist feature. Need to figure out how to tune the lane departure feature a bit
*And the fuel economy, my gawd! I mean, its why I bought the car in the first place, but to experience it first hand...

Now, if I could drive on the autobahn everyday, me and my heavy foot would need a bigger engine. But Day 1, the car was everything I expected it to be.

Looney 100 nailed it.

DubVBenz

Glad to hear it. Care to share how much you paid and how many miles?