JohnAlderfer1

Should I be using top tier gas? I have been getting gas at Smith's (Kroger) because of the discount, but it's not top tier

SDRider

It all comes from the same place.

Donnymac

True but the "same place" produces different blends for different retailers' specs. Those specs are additives to "raw" fuel. It's not just octane, it's the additives, too. You have a precision motor. Run comparable fuel.

Ken B

From today's news:

Cheap, off-brand gasoline is bad for engines, AAA says

"The off-brand gasolines can cause "19 times more engine deposits" than recognizable brands, which have more detergent in their mix. The problem can occur after just 4,000 miles of simulated driving.

"Such carbon deposits are known to reduce fuel economy, increase emissions and negatively impact vehicle performance, particularly on newer vehicles," said AAA."

etc. at the link.

fosterelli

Definitely a difference in fuel formulations from brand to brand. And not all off-brands are bad. Costco is a top tier fuel. http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers/

All of the major brands have proprietary blends - don't ever believe they come from the same place. There are plenty of shortcuts the lower priced fuel retailers can take to keep margins up.

thefisch

Here is the full AAA report.Fuel-Quality-Full-Report-FINAL-1.pdf

Keep in mind that all fuel meets minimum standards. It shouldn't be a surprise that fuel sold with more additives/detergents leaves less deposits. Perhaps the minimum is still good enough.

I have always gotten fuel based on convenience and price and (knock on wood) never had an issue. Glad to hear CITGO is top tier though. They are one of the cheapest around here. Too bad Racetrac isn't listed - those Publix grocery store deals for $10 off a $50 Racetrac gift card have been getting me 20% off gas for a while now.

s140s

I have friends that deliver fuel to gas stations and you would not believe what kind of crap goes in the tank. Everything varies from brand to brand.

Shell for example will have a dedicated set of drivers for that account and their drivers will only deliver gasoline, while off-brands will request a truck, but their last trip might have been diesel. There will always remain about 40 gallons of fuel inside a tanker after delivery and it will be mixed with 7000gallons of the next load those stations order.

I have been told Sams Club orders plain gasoline and they supposedly add their own additives at the gas stations.

Everything varies from market to market,
Chicago fuel terminals for example are still using equipment from the 70s-80s that are well beyond their life expectancy and will often stop working while loading a truck, than the driver restarts the pumps but no one knows what kind of blend is inside the tanker.

jylee

I had been filling my tank with HEB or Valero (top tier). Both gas feel the same on mileage/performance. Another tip, I use an app call gasbuddy, it inform me who has the best price, as gas station do not post premium price on their sign.

El Cid

Top Tier only in all my vehicles! I knew the manager of one of the local fuel distribution facilities (tank farm) and he took me on a tour.
All the gas that comes out of the pipeline is the same, except for octane level (regular or premium) here. Supposedly the mid-grade is mixed at the station pumps from regular and premium. If I remember correctly.
THE difference though is the other small tanks sitting around the facility. The tank truck goes to those tanks and adds to his load with the additives required to make it correct for the desitination. So, that is where Top Tier and the brand name fuel is created.
The driver then goes to the ethanol facility and tops off with ethanol to add 10%.
I view using non Top-Tier the same as I would using regular in my Benz - not good.
I don't buy food at a gas station/conveinence store and I don't buy gas at a grocery store, no matter how much it saves me.

Zavato

Im a convert to top tier fuels. I have an E350 and a Honda Accord. Last year my accord was not running well- I had perhaps 115,000 miles on the accord. I had 2 fouled plugs and an absolutely filthy intake.

BTW, I do not believe regular fuel, if top tier, will cause any damage to the MB engine. It may not perform to absolute potential but the ECU will retard the timing as necessary to prevent knock.

Peachy

My dad has been a mechanic for over 40 years, he says Chevron with Techron really works.

Donnymac

Your dad is correct. Additives matter and he has first hand knowledge to back it up. And, bargain fuels lack the additives.

El Cid

According to the Chevron website, it you use Chevron with Techron you do not need to add Techron periodically. Don't think Chevron is easily available in my area.
I do use Top Tier premium (QT primarily), but still add Techron a couple of times per year. Frequently on sale.

LINKBXQ

Following the link to the report I am surprise brand such as sunoco and gulf aren't listed on the top tier website.

fosterelli

I think whoever told you this part was incorrect. No fuel retailer is blending additives on-site - they lack the facilities and personnel to properly do so.

looney100

Guys,
A lot of conflicting information in this thread - including a lot of incorrect stuff that one guy heard from another that saw something happen once.

I've worked in the industry for nearly two decades - for a major integrated oil company, and have experience with fuel sales, distribution, quality and additives.

To address the initial question, and clear up some misinformation:

1) Yes. You should use top tier fuel if you plan on keeping your car or care about maximizing performance. Top tier gasoline was a standard developed jointly by a number of automobile manufacturers as the minimum detergency standards did not meet their requirements. Long term use of fuels with lessor detergency will lead to accumulated deposits and degraded performance.

2) Yes. The industry shares terminals, and fuel for many different brands may originate from the same place, but the additives differ significantly, and it is the additives that matter when it comes to performance. Just because fuel for two different service stations originates from the same place, doesn't men their qualities are anything like each other.

3)While many fuel trucks will carry multiple products, contamination isn't normally a concern. Fuel tankers have multiple compartments which allow them to carry different products or products for different customers at once. On the trucks used to deliver to service stations, a small compartment would be 10KL or more. Tanker compartments are drained from the low points when deliveries are made, and the vast majority of product is drained. The residue left over is inconsequential when the next load of 10000+L is put back on. What remains in the tank from the prior delivery would be negligible - unless there has been a significant mistake made by the driver. If the drivers referred to earlier in the post have 40 gallons left over in the compartments, they are not doing their jobs properly.

4)El Cid is near spot-on with his post. Though I hope he's mistaken about the drivers adding ethanol separately. I can say for sure this doesn't happen in Canada. In Canada, ethanol is injected (mixed) with the gasoline at the time of loading. Ethanol blending requires precision because the gasoline used to blend with ethanol is sub-octane, and needs the 10% ethanol to meet octane requirements. Too little ethanol and your gasoline doesn't meet minimum octane requirements - too much and you're beyond the 10% limit of most vehicles' warranties.
The pumps and meters used when filling trucks are designed to fill trucks quickly, and therefore don't do a good job of shutting off at a specified volume.

5) As much as I'd like to sing the praises of my particular brand - if you're buying top tier fuel from a major brand, you won't go wrong.

Donnymac

looney100 hit the nail on the head. What he wrote is exactly how the industry works.


Follow his number 5 and like he says - you won't go wrong.

El Cid

looney100: I'll check with the local ethanol distributor, but as of several years ago it was added to each tank truck after gasoline was loaded. I saw them doing it. The drivers don't add ethanol as it is done by employees of the ethanol distributor at his facility.
There are 5-6 different companies in the tank farm and the ethanol distributor has a separate facility close by where the RR tank cars are unloaded. Lot of trucks lined up at the ethanol facility during the day. Also they load some trucks 100% with ethanol and that is taken to smaller distribution facilities to be added to the gasoline there.
This is in South Carolina.

The G Man

I had a Audi years ago that had a lot of carbon build up problem on the valves. I talk to the dealer's mechanic foreman on one of my visits and he recommend using Shell V-power gas. Although the carbon problem was not eliminated, the Shell gas did help quite a bit to keep the engine clean.

El Cid

Unable to contact local ethanol distributor so unable to verify how trucks are loaded.
Also noticed today that local BP station now sells four types of gas: 87, 89 and 93 octane and 93 octane without ethanol. However, the W/O ethanol does not have a BP logo on the pump selector button. It is 40 cents higher than BP 93 (2.49), but BP 93 is always 20-30 cents higher than QT 93. QT is a Top Tier gasoline.

jahquan3

I've almost exclusively been using BP for the past 6 months and I feel their prices are very competitive depending on the location. It's usually about 2.40 for 93 at BP.
However some of their competitors like Exxon are almost 2.90 for 93. It's shocking that there is that much of a difference between two fairly similiar brands.

El Cid

I have contacted BP corporate and prices are determined by local distributors/stations. Called owner of local station and he says it is distributor. Other BP stations also have high prices for premium.
Not sure who it is, but after 20+ years or using BP or Amoco, now using QT almost exclusively. Mainly because of how BP prices its premium locally.

Mrmendoza

Great discussion fellas!

BMerc1

Yes, great discussion indeed. I've learnt a thing or two already. Now if only someone can confirm or not if Costco [Toronto, Canada] gas is good enough for my MB. I always used to get 89 for my 07' VW and never quite had any issues. But then again, that's a VW and this is Merc.

Zavato

Costco gas is Top Tier- its on their web site