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If it really was a wiring issue, why does getting on the gas bring it back to life? And why does it only happen when cornering at high speed? Sorry OP but it just seems odd that lateral g force is the cause of an electrical/wiring issue unless that force causes issues with the drive belt and/or alternator pulley that creates a drop in voltage. Do you a way of monitoring the voltage while driving to see what happens when cornering?
Many years ago I was driving around with a failing alternator in a Honda and the car would start to stall when the power dropped and revving the engine would get the alternator output to power the car until I could get out of traffic. Still not an issue effected by cornering, but your issue just feels like an overall electrical system issue and the warnings you are getting are just symptoms of a drop in voltage.
It isn't so much the getting back on the gas that clears it up as the fact that the car going straight again. The problem occurs if I am on the gas, brake, or coasting. If it were a voltage issue alone, stop and go traffic, stop lights, etc would likely cause the same issue from my logic. If the g forces come into play and bring the symptom to light, my thought is that a harness is getting crushed or harness is twisting, or otherwise being stressed that is not in any other situation.
By no means am I arguing. Your logic followed mine, however with a new battery that is full and testing good, this seems unlikely to lose communication throughout the network in such an isolated circumstance and in no others.
I wonder if the tow away protection system motion alarm is triggering itself under a short and causing a temporary shut down of some systems when you are cornering. Kind of grasping here, but it's function is as a motion activated disabler.
I wonder if the tow away protection system motion alarm is triggering itself under a short and causing a temporary shut down of some systems when you are cornering. Kind of grasping here, but it's function is as a motion activated disabler.
This is a totally new idea for me and one I have not investigated. Is there a sensor of some sort in the car that triggers it? If it operates based on cutting communication and shutting other functions/modules down, it could make a ton of sense!
I finally got the car to fault in a controlled environment without a load of systems shutting down. I cleared the car with Star than did about 10 or 12 decent speed loops in an empty parking lot. The first light to turn on was the esp. I immediately rescanned the car and the 2 codes causing this where: chassis can bus off and can instable.
Looking at the diagrams in WIS, really wiring the can network seems illogical. There are too many modules attached. This is as far as I got for the night. It's nearly 1 am and I need to be up in 6 hours for work.
In the first round of faults (over the last week or so since I'd cleared them, prior to this test and attempt to narrow it down to a smaller number):
As follows, this is the full list from the car:
Central Gateway:
U001988: Interior Can Communication has a malfunction: Bus OFF
U103288: Chassis CAN Communication has a malfuntion: Bus OFF
U118000: The interior CAN Network management is unstable. _
U118200: The chassis CAN Network management is unstable. _
also
C16800: Communication with the electronic ignition lock has a malfunction
C15500: Communication with the instrument cluster has a malfunction
I ran through the guided troubleshooting on the CAN Network. While I don't fully understand STAR, I ran through everything and got green check marks. I did receive a few red x's along the way. They were:
1.) Chassis CAN bus OFF fault (red x)
2.) Internal Fault - following the troubleshooting link indicates to check the wiring between the b24/15 yaw rate sensor for lateral and longitudinal acceleration to control unit N30/4, electronic stability Program unit and repair and replace if necessary. If the line and connectors are OK, replace component b24/15 yaw rate sensor for lateral and longitudinal acceleration.
3.) Interior CAN bus OFF fault (red x) - did the tests for both can bus off ones (short to ground, short to positive, short to each other, and got all green checks and the verbiage "not present" which I'm guessing is good but "not present" could be bad as I don't know STAR that well...
4.) Drivetrain Can bus off fault (red x)
Does anyone know where the yaw rate sensor is located in the car and where the esp module is located? Better yet the run of the wires? I have seen the electrical diagram but a 2d, electrical engineering schematic does not tell me much.
Being that this while potentially coincidental is at least pointing towards the same location as the first system that faulted. Perhaps a short in this location could be the root of all the problems. (I'm crossing my fingers as this is a massive needle in a haystack). I've considered taking this to the stealership, but know they will put in and charge me an arm and a leg for a sam and who knows what else but it's unlikely they will fix it the first time and I will be in 5k before they actually find the problem (meanwhile naturally not refunding the labor/parts that were not necessary).
I could likely find a second w212 E550 of matching model year to pull/test some of the higher dollar parts from before replacing them as a troubleshooting option before dumping big dollars on parts.
Last edited by Abrown3mtg; 10-13-2016 at 02:27 AM.
I finally got the car to fault in a controlled environment without a load of systems shutting down. I cleared the car with Star than did about 10 or 12 decent speed loops in an empty parking lot. The first light to turn on was the esp. I immediately rescanned the car and had a chassis can bus off, and can unstable as the codes.
Looking at the diagrams in WIS, really wiring the can network seems illogical. There are too many modules attached. This is as far as I got for the night. It's nearly 1 am and I need to be up in 6 hours for work.
With all of these issues, while cornering, I'd definitely look at the lateral movement/yaw sensors. I believe they used to be located on driver's side, under rear passenger seat. Should be in a housing or have some kind of cover over it. Not sure if that's still the case with the W212.
I've also seen them under center consoles. Beware, I think there should be a lateral movement sensor AND a yaw sensor.
Could anyone confirm the location of the YAW sensor and the ESP module in this car? I want to check the connectors and wiring in between them or potentially replace the YAW if necessary. (60 bucks on ebay).
Thank you konigstiger, as always, your posts prove incredibly insightful. Either you are the biggest enthusiast, greatest asset to a dealership, or the most overlooked opportunity in AZ!
I'd been looking for a more descriptive description as to how to access. (E.G, remove battery/tray, access from underneath, etc, or remove seat, remove center console, etc). I guess it is time to start exploring if anyone hasn't accessed these themselves.
I did notice in the intro 212 diagram the data transfer rate for each system. Does the dealership have some sort of attachment for STAR that allows them to be tested as such (or is it buried in the normal star clone computers)? having seen the break down of each system, it may end up something worth paying to have identified if indeed further tools exist to monitor these rates.
Checked and cleaned the connectors on the yaw rate sensor, felt like one wire was suspect to spliced and replaced it. Time will tell if this is the fix. I still seem to get an internal fault result when testing the yaw rate via star but codes clear otherwise. Tracing that wiring will be a nightmare. Next step is replace the yaw rate sensor itself.
Could an internal fault in the yaw rate sensor cause can network communication issues or result in the "can off" fault on misc systems throught out the car?
I'm not typically seeing the yaw sensor as one of the faults. I know the sensor can affect multiple systems but can it create instability or lack of communication in the network?
I am pretty close to tossing that part at the car, as I'd like this resolved before the snow hits the ground.
That said, if an internal fault in the yaw could not result in those other symptoms, I should likely pass and investigate other options.
On a different token, I had the central gateway not respond in time and give the red exclamation point when I did a quick test in star. Ithe tests ok in actuations, but under control units, when I try to connect to the module, it seems it will not.
Situational and how I attempt to test that moduke appears to yield different results.
Than scan again and all is well.... strange things lately... and lots of lost sleep.
I know the cgw appears to be in the passenger footwell, behind a metal insert. I believe I found the right one and checked connectors but am thinking this isn't the case. Anyone have a concrete location or photo of access? I'm damned determined to fix this myself. Money is tight enough to make it worthwhile so I can retain assets for more fun items!
Last edited by Abrown3mtg; 10-23-2016 at 05:31 AM.
10-12-2016, 04:12 AM
