Kabra

I have 70K on my 2014 E350 Sport and see I need to have the transmission fluid replaced. Dealer quoted almost $700. I see it's not a trivial job and wondering if an independent shop can do this and what I should expect to pay? Anything to watch out for?

KEY08

I think my Indy charged me $425 or so for the transmission service. It takes a while to complete the service.

Stuttgarten

Local dealer charges $549, so I'm waiting on MBUSA summer discount coupons

zeemob

I went to my dealer last month and requested to have the 70K transmission fluid service done on my 2012 E350. Upon completion of the job and checking the receipt, I noticed that only 6 quarts of fluid was added instead of 10 (plus new filter, gasket, drain plug, 6 screws, misc shop supplies). This lead me to believe that the torque converter was not drained which holds roughly 4 quarts of oil. Upon inquiry the SA confirmed that they normally do not drain the torque converter here. I told her well as per Mercedes WIS AP27.00-P-2702W, the torque converter has to be drained. If you don't drain the TC oil, the contaminated oil just recirculates back and mixes with the new oil. That doesn't seem like something Mercedes-Benz would suggest? I would like to bring my car back another day and have it redone properly. She said no problem. I went in next week and they redid it correctly. No charge. Took them 5 hours where initially just drain and refill took them 2 hours.

$550 with my dealer. I used a $150 off $300 service coupon that was floating on Facebook. So I paid roughly $400 for mine.

LALALAND

From my understanding the prepaid maintenance package will cover the transmission service. I'm planning to buy the prepaid package after my current package run out. Per the service adviser, I can not buy another package before my current one is all used up. Per this forum, you can buy the service package before the car hit 8 year or 80k miles. 3 services for $1600 or 1700 (not sure current rate) is not bad when it include the transmission service.

Do they clean the solenoid filter when the do the transmission service? Can I tell them to do it and pay the difference/additional cost?

Mud

There are 7 solenoids in the conductor plate - removal/screen cleaning are not included in typical transmission fluid/filter service cost.

ChrisB

I just so happened to have the 3rd A service (A3 called up on the on-board computer) done today and had the transmission fluid replaced today because it has been 9 years since the car went into operation.

The mileage on the car is 90,000 Km (say 60,000 miles).

7 liters of blue transmission fluid was charged to me ... not 9 liters.

This leads me to believe that the torque converter was not drained or not drained completely.

I googled one of the references above ... and found this ;
”March of 2003, M-B released a bulletin re 722.6 and 722.9 transmissions, advising a one-time-only transmission fluid change at 64,000Km (40,000 miles). This is to remove any particles that may have accumulated during break-in.”

We recently bought the car used ... we know The car was maintained by Mercedes for 4 years for about 48,000 Km (30,000 miles).

I now wonder if this one time full flush to remove break in particles has ever been done. Since it was not serviced by a Mercedes shop since 4 years / 30,000 miles.

I wish I had read this thread before dropping the car off yesterday. I could of at least quizzed the Mechanic. Maybe insisted on a torque converter draining as well.

I am certainly no expert and I am not a DIY kind of handy guy. The Independent Mechanic seemed to be conversant with the “no dip stick”, “temperature being important” things I have read.

The transmission fluid change was $ 557 Cdn + tax (say $ 420 USD).

Not something I want to pay twice for ...

Any thoughts or advice?

Mud

Others can do as they wish but no way I'd do a "one-time only" fluid/filter change on any transmission, regardless of what was printed. I suspect that info may have been superseded.

Regular change of fluid and filter ensures that the regular accumulation of normal metal and clutch disc wear is removed. If these are ignored that debris can accumulate within the valve body and it gets trapped in there, requiring removal and disassembly/cleaning, plus possibility if clogging up the solenoid screens.

I drive less and go 30k but I believe most intervals are around 60k. But my point is that although the service is not cheap, in the long run it's worthwhile.

Stuttgarten

Chris, I'd call dealer and tell them about Mercedes WIS AP27.00-P-2702W, where the torque converter has to be drained accordingly, as referenced by "zeemob."

kajtek1

I did 5G servicing on car ramps like 5 times before I've got lift and than when 7G servicing come.
IMHO no mechanic will take time to drip fluid from your transmission and per my experience dripping it overnight can gain additional 1l.
When you just open the converter plug, let the ATF run and close the plug, you are going to have lot of fluid still left on converter interiors.
So I strongly advise to DIY the job. It is hard only 1st time as you will need a scanner to read temperature, ATF pump and set of stands, but the results will be very rewarding.
Did dealer indicate cleaning the magnets?

ChrisB

The internet research I did seemed to say that the full system drainage was a one time thing to deal with wear in particles.

I would for sure do regular transmission fluid changes - every 3 years or 60,000 Km.

Just struggling here, to figure out how bad the service I got from the Indi Mechanic was.

Converter not drained fully? Magnets not cleaned? What else??

What kind of deficiency has been left - are these things too important to leave for another 3 years or 60,000 KM???

If not doing this procedure properly is going to lead to a premature failure of my transmission ... then spending another $ 500 to $ 700 within a week on doing it again & properly ... may be a good investment.

My extended warranty will not go on forever.

Is this full procedure know to all mechanics? - why would an MB service rep say they don’t do it??

Would I be entitled to challenge the Indi Mechanic??

kajtek1

7G transmission had recommendation for fluid change at 40k miles and then "for life"
7G + has different recommendations for different chassis, but most of them every 70k miles. Change was about year 2010, but don't take my word for it.
I did both of them at the same time and 7G+ has filter with fine elements, even the outside shape is the same with 7G filter.
Now, how many mechanics used 7G filter in 7G+ transmissions?

s140s

You can always measure the amount of fluid drained and refill with the same amount.
I use a barb fitting adapter with proper thread size that screws into the drain plug hole, few ft of clear pvc hose and modified atf bottle cap(barb fitting through the cap, and nut on the inside).
If I drain 5 liters of fluid, I gravity refill the fluid and on the last bottle i have another person squeeze the bottle to pump all the fluid from the hose while i quickly,remove the hose, plug the hole with my finger , then screw in the atf drain bolt. If you did not notice any ATF leaks, this will save time and hassle of running the car, measuring the temperature, draining etc. plus you dont need any fancy tools

On my 211 CDI , when I change the oil, I drain ATF into 5qt paint mixing cups which have Milliters on the side. I refill same amount through dipstick hole and call it a day.

Its not rocket science, if your car doesn't loose ATF and the transmission works just fine, refill with the same amount that is drained. 100-200ml differance will not cause any issues, factory manual states, that the car needs to be level when you drain the excess fluid after reaching the proper temperature, not all lifts are leveled, doing this on jackstands I guarantee you will not get it perfectly leveled and there will be 100-200ml variance in case its not perfect. Shop manual is great but common sense is another great tool. Most mechanics do whatever takes the least effort and I guarantee everyone that its not done perfectly by the book every single time.

kajtek1

DIY inventions are unlimited and when I spoil myself to a lift, each method that works >> works period.
I know from experience that you never can drain everything from anything and manuals are always on safe side.
So when manual called for 9 l topping off and than draining the excess, I put 8l and still got couple of drips once the oil warmed up.
As long as it works, heck with it.

S-Prihadi

On my G7+ there is no plug on the torque converter to remove oil.
Anyway, I find mercedes WIS is odd, its revision does not show a revised number.

Older AP27.00-P-2702W of 2004 ( 14.10.04) does not show oil to be removed from torque converter
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...ter-change.pdf

Newer AP27.00-P-2702W of 2017 ( 12.09.2017 ) required oil to be removed from torque converter and also auxiliary oil pump if for ECO start stop cars.
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...ter-change.pdf

Sure we should use a logical method based on what production year is our car, but it would also be unfortunate to a DIY-er if someone advice a WIS number without telling the year of the document and somehow the DIY-er googled and got an older out of date document, but exact 100% same WIS number

I think WIS number should change if there is a revision or add a Rev1, Rev2 ID number or something like that to avoid such mistake.

BTW, how many versions of AP27.00-P-2702W are out there ?

.

kajtek1

Are you sure you don't have the plug?
I run into that in the past, that even professional mechanics judged the car as no plug, only becouse there is no inspection cover at the very bottom.
Due to servo for parking brake, W212 and I guess all newer cars have inspection cover moved to the side like 7 o'clock looking from the back.

S-Prihadi

I believed I was told about no drain plug by my friend's workshop ( not MB dealership workshop) but he has access to MB WIS and MB is his specialty.
Let me check with him again soon. His workshop handle my car.

Looking at my photo files I think now I realized that , why the 2017 WIS version requires the aux trans oil pump to be removed ( I have ECO start/stop ), that aux pump is where the old inspection port were at 6 o'clock.
Its not the servo for the parking brake, it is aux trans oil pump.

So removing aux trans oil pump could be the only way to access the torque converter and assuming it has the drain plug.

Aux oil pump on W212 https://mbwis.net/en/doc/7031106
Aux oil pump on C205 https://mbwis.net/en/doc/7051985








The WIS to drain oil from torque converter, non ECO start/stop and I don't see the year of the document
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...-converter.pdf

Thank you Kajtek1, for ringing the alarm bell for me.
August of this year I will change my trans oil again, just to make sure I can get the torque converter to drain, if it never got drained on Aug 2018.

I did trans oil change on Aug 2018 at 10,773 KM old , assumed 4 years 2 months old the trans oil was. This is a used car at 9,562KM old when I got it on May 2018.
It is a June 2014 year production and I simply assumed it never got trans oil changed since day 1.

I plan to do the E400 trans oil change actually per 2 years or per 20,000KM. I will not use any lubricating oil pass 2 years of service , regardless of low mileage.

Specific for Engine oil, it is 6 months max service life or 5,000KM. This is a good bad habit
.

kajtek1

Don't have photoshop to edit the picture, but what do you think the square gray thing with a hole in the center is? Just above red circle?
Never had a need to investigate it closely, but what aux oil pump is for?

S-Prihadi

I am sure that gray thing is a rubber cover, most likely inspection port which you mentioned as 7 o'clock. Need to pry it open next time and see what kind of viewing is available towards the interior.
The Aux Trans Oil Pump is due to ECO start/stop engine kill during say traffic stop, so trans oil pressure is maintained by this baby electric pump when engine is sleeping during ECO stop.

I really hate ECO start/stop, I always disable it anyway and overall it has few extra hardware which make certain service/maintenance more difficult and surely adding extra failure points.
01. This baby aux trans oil pump
02. Extra small battery at the trunk
03. Relay system for small battery at the trunk <<< this one I worry not the merely the mechanical parts but the overall algorithm/software if somehow it gets corrupted, tracing it will be a nightmare

.

Mud

I also don't care for ECO stop/start, fortunately my 2011 doesn't have it. I always turn it off on other vehicles. Adds a significant level of complexity to already complicated systems.
Yes that's a relocated inspection plug on the bellhousing due to location of aux oil pump.
Incidentally that pump is on the vehicle CANBUS and can be viewed (codes, etc) through the TCM module.
In all cases, a good first check especially for intermittent issues, is the transmission connector and harness. Look for clean connections and undamaged wiring.

kajtek1

I love ECO stop due to lot of long-time red lights on my home route and now am annoyed when it will not engage.
So far nobody reported any bigger trouble with it, while trunk space for small battery is not a problem.
I am annoyed with trunk space taken by spare tire I am carrying, the trunk closing mechanism, than I removed the convenience sack and still my cooler has hard time to fit in the trunk due to handles for rear seats folding.
Even the car has fuel tank fitted under the floor, it is harder to pack suitcases than in W210, who had fuel tank inside the trunk area.
My 2 cars with ECO stop have 185 and 130k miles, so they are "experienced" .

Mr.Fly

How does this thread participants feel about flushing the transmission by using the transmission oil cooler, like ? It seems to me that this method will flush most of the ATF from the torque convertor.

kajtek1

Why flush, when you can drain?
Flashing has several potential dangers, while is wasting lot of expensive ATF.

S-Prihadi

I think if the bottom of the oil cooler is not much lower than trans oil pan, most of the oil in the cooler will also be drained when oil pan drain ( and the plastic snorkel ) is removed.

Sunnyslope48

My preference would be to use the last connection for the fluid returning to the transmission, if that doesn't make a huge mess capturing the old fluid. If that last connection at the trans makes a mess, the last previous one would work very well. I do it this way on my Chevy diesel truck and it works very well.