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Stainless Steel Brake Line Options for Facelift 4Matic Sport?
I did a search and surprisingly didn't find anyone discussing this.
I'm looking for stainless lines to replace my factory rubber lines on all 4 corners. Previously, I had a W211 facelift 4matic sport model, and I could only get the front two lines. It appears there might be one or more options for all 4 on a 4matic sport w212...
There's a company in LA called "Mr. Hose" that I have had refurb tons of hoses and fittings before. They do great work. If I can't find something pre-made, I will send them some factory rubber lines and have them swap the fittings to stainless lines.
Stainless lines are made with a small PTFE core which is wrapped in braided stainless and then coated with plastic. Rubber lines are made from several thicker layers of rubber and rainforcement. Stainless lines expand less under braking pressure which leads to better "pedal feel". They also don't change size as much over time or with temperature changes. This leads to better pedal feel consistency. They are also much more abrasion resistant.
They do have additional failure modes that rubber lines don't have and they are hrader to inspect for small leaks, which is why you won't find them installed at the factory.
2016 E350 4Matic wagon, 2019 Ford Expedition, 2019 Chevy Bolt EV
if you drive in the rust belt where they salt the roads in Winter, your zinc/steel brake lines will start to rust through in about 10 years and develop pinhole leaks.
whats sick is, Mercedes, along with Volvo, pioneered copper/nickel in the 70s or 80s, all my W124 generation (1985-1995 E class) Mercedes used it,. so did our Volvo 240, 960, 850, S90, and 740 (all from the 80s-90s, all high mileage cars)... those brake lines last *forever*. I'm not sure when Mercedes decided 'forever' was too long and reverted to the cheaper steel/zinc lines.
2016 E350 4Matic wagon, 2019 Ford Expedition, 2019 Chevy Bolt EV
btw, that graphic is for some premium stainless braided lines, there's plenty of cheap stuff out there thats just a rubber hose stuffed inside a stainless braided cover.
I would just get the regular flex lines from FCP. If they ever wear or crack buy new ones and return the originals for store credit as part of there lifetime warranty.
That Viva performance says limited warranty and only if installed by licensed mechanic. Id be doing the work myself so rules me out.
I recently replaced a severely rusted passenger rear hard brake line. The line was so rusted I could not unscrew the fitting to the flex line, had to cut the line then even a socket would not budge it. Thankfully vice grips worked. I replaced the rear part of the hard line with nickel-copper line. I used genuine Mercedes fittings. For the flex line I used ATE from FCP.
I dont have a crystal ball but I will bet if the car is located where there is snow in the winters then the hard lines will rust. On mine I noticed the hard lines are rusting at all the bends and fittings, basically anywhere the poly coating has been stressed/scraped/removed. Its just steel under there.
I looked up the genuine Mercedes flex lines at my local MB parts dept and they are $80 front and $62 rear. The Corteco lines at FCP are looking like a very good option in my opinion.
I cant say I ever drove a car with stainless flex lines though cant see how they would make a noticeable difference.
if you drive in the rust belt where they salt the roads in Winter, your zinc/steel brake lines will start to rust through in about 10 years and develop pinhole leaks.
whats sick is, Mercedes, along with Volvo, pioneered copper/nickel in the 70s or 80s, all my W124 generation (1985-1995 E class) Mercedes used it,. so did our Volvo 240, 960, 850, S90, and 740 (all from the 80s-90s, all high mileage cars)... those brake lines last *forever*. I'm not sure when Mercedes decided 'forever' was too long and reverted to the cheaper steel/zinc lines.
Perhaps it's because my cars were mostly very old that I haven't experienced ****ty steel hardlines. I wonder what the W211 had...
Originally Posted by Left Coast Geek
btw, that graphic is for some premium stainless braided lines, there's plenty of cheap stuff out there thats just a rubber hose stuffed inside a stainless braided cover.
For sure. But I obviously am not buying cheap braking components...
I would just get the regular flex lines from FCP. If they ever wear or crack buy new ones and return the originals for store credit as part of there lifetime warranty.
That Viva performance says limited warranty and only if installed by licensed mechanic. Id be doing the work myself so rules me out.
I will also be installing them myself, but I have probably never used the warranty on any product I have ever bought.
I recently replaced a severely rusted passenger rear hard brake line. The line was so rusted I could not unscrew the fitting to the flex line, had to cut the line then even a socket would not budge it. Thankfully vice grips worked. I replaced the rear part of the hard line with nickel-copper line. I used genuine Mercedes fittings. For the flex line I used ATE from FCP.
I don't think I currently have this problem, but will get a better look soon as I do some work around those areas. I didn't realize that Mercedes had shifted to crap hard lines. I have had late 70s and 80s Mercedes that all probably still have decent hard lines to this day. I have an 86 560SL that had a leaking hard top with water eating away the wooden shelf, both sides of the rear floorboards, and the top of the gas tank. Hard lines are still in great shape. So this area has been off my radar until now.
I dont have a crystal ball but I will bet if the car is located where there is snow in the winters then the hard lines will rust. On mine I noticed the hard lines are rusting at all the bends and fittings, basically anywhere the poly coating has been stressed/scraped/removed. Its just steel under there.
There is a ton of road salt here, but somehow I have avoided any new rust during the time I have owned a vehicle here (my wife had a Subaru and it didn't fare so well). Mercedes has typically done a great job of rust protection and I rinse the entire car off multiple times a week. The W212 does have many more belly pans that block water spray than even the W211 though...
I cant say I ever drove a car with stainless flex lines though cant see how they would make a noticeable difference.
I switch rubber for SS whenever I can, and I prefer them. It's not a huge difference, but it is noticeable.
There is a ton of debris on the road here that gets kicked up under the car.. I have had one rubber line get abraded by something and spring a pin hole leak, but that has never happened to me with a SS line, and I don't see how it could. The road debris here is kind of insane--one time I got a blowout that left a 1.5" hole in the tire and could hear something rattling around inside. The tire shop pulled a chunk of someone's piston out.
btw, that graphic is for some premium stainless braided lines, there's plenty of cheap stuff out there thats just a rubber hose stuffed inside a stainless braided cover.
Why would you put that cheap stuff on your $60k car......
Ya can always get the material, bender and flaring/unions/brazing tools and make your own. Not too hard or expensive really. Or buy quality parts and be done with it.
2016 E350 4Matic wagon, 2019 Ford Expedition, 2019 Chevy Bolt EV
Originally Posted by Quint22
Ya can always get the material, bender and flaring/unions/brazing tools and make your own. Not too hard or expensive really. Or buy quality parts and be done with it.
thats how you do copper lines. you just need the bender and the flaring tool, really. there's no brazing involved. the copper-nickel tubing is quite easily bent, but the bender helps you keep a even radius and avoid folding/crimping.
thats how you do copper lines. you just need the bender and the flaring tool, really. there's no brazing involved. the copper-nickel tubing is quite easily bent, but the bender helps you keep a even radius and avoid folding/crimping.
Yep like I said brazing equipment. Thats only for the fitting at end of the line if required. Also depends on the fitting type obviously. Made many a hydraulic line back when I worked on aircraft, later on on Ships. Really the hardest part is if doing the flared fittings making sure everything aligns properly, if not they leak. Most car brake line fittings I have scene are flared type of one or the other so no brazing required.
Still the point I was getting at is if ya can cut them square and flare nicely building the lines is relatively an easy job. Much easier if ya have the original to copy.
Yep like I said brazing equipment. Thats only for the fitting at end of the line if required. Also depends on the fitting type obviously. Made many a hydraulic line back when I worked on aircraft, later on on Ships. Really the hardest part is if doing the flared fittings making sure everything aligns properly, if not they leak. Most car brake line fittings I have scene are flared type of one or the other so no brazing required.
Still the point I was getting at is if ya can cut them square and flare nicely building the lines is relatively an easy job. Much easier if ya have the original to copy.
The hardest part is just cutting them all the the right length and bending them all in just the right spot, and routing them. Without a lot of experience, you go through 4x the amount of tubing before you get it right. It's not something I really want to do, but if it comes to it, I'll tackle it.
I have no interest in replacing the hard lines because they will almost certainly outlast the car itself.
I replaced my 2013 brake lines from front to back last year early spring, if you are in Chicago and the car is from there, you are already on borrowed time, WCG is right, Copper-Nickel is the way to go. I also replaced all the rubber lines, they were still ok but I was in there and they were 11 years old and the mounts needed replacing.
I have no interest in replacing the hard lines because they will almost certainly outlast the car itself.
Your in Chicago - I PROMISE YOU that the lines will rust out in not too long.....(been there, done that). Go the heck out of Illinois (as anyone with a brain does).
I replaced my 2013 brake lines from front to back last year early spring, if you are in Chicago and the car is from there, you are already on borrowed time, WCG is right, Copper-Nickel is the way to go. I also replaced all the rubber lines, they were still ok but I was in there and they were 11 years old and the mounts needed replacing.
Took a peak at the front ones while working on my washer bottle and they are still fine.
Your in Chicago - I PROMISE YOU that the lines will rust out in not too long.....(been there, done that). Go the heck out of Illinois (as anyone with a brain does).
Really disappointing that Mercedes made that switch, but the lines are still OK for now.
I'm not a big fan of Illinois, but I'm not going to let the terrorists win. I'm staying until I decide to leave for reasons unrelated to the crappy government.
I have no interest in replacing the hard lines because they will almost certainly outlast the car itself.
that could not be further from the truth. You need to take a good hard look at the rears including what's up under the subframe. On my 2012.. Chicago car.. they were the first thing on the car to get rust and rusted through causing brake fluid to spray anytime I touch the break. The car simply is undrivable at that point. To think that your car is special and you're not going to have the exact same thing so many of us others have had makes you simply delusional. Please be safe and get them checked.
that could not be further from the truth. You need to take a good hard look at the rears including what's up under the subframe. On my 2012.. Chicago car.. they were the first thing on the car to get rust and rusted through causing brake fluid to spray anytime I touch the break. The car simply is undrivable at that point. To think that your car is special and you're not going to have the exact same thing so many of us others have had makes you simply delusional. Please be safe and get them checked.
As explained earlier in the thread, that statement was based on my experience with all the other cars I have owned. I didn't realize at that point that they switched to crappier tubing. I'm keeping an eye on them...
Has all the parts I used. I recommend using the genuine Mercedes fittings since they are very good quality. i bought some AGS fittings and they didnt seem to want to compress the line and the machining was just horrible. The Titan iso/din brake line flare tool is excellent.
It looks to me that my drivers side rear brake line has been replaced at some point, it was in much better condition than the passenger side. Both front brake lines look ok. This winter i sprayed both Fluid Film and Surface shield, and even used CorrosionX HD under the car to try to prevent rust. I never bothered trying to prevent rust before, so we shall see in spring if it was worth it.
The undershields do a good job protecting the underside at the front. Seems to be the rear is where road salt gets kicked up on everything. Most things under the car i replaced was due to rust. The front struts, rear shocks and springs, now the passenger brake line. last winter I replaced the rear shocks and they were covered in road salt. Had to replace the transmission pan due to rust.
heres after i sprayed the corrosion protection, removed the wheel liners to get the brake lines: CorrosionX HD is thick stuff but seems to pick up sand and rocks.
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