unr1

why does Mercedes make it so expensive to have adaptive cruise control?

it's like they are milking it until it becomes a standard feature in a few years

I love the E-class but I would love it even more in a base model with distronic and use that 10K somewhere else.

Lanzz

I agree. I ended up with a Premium 2 because the gap between P2 and P3 was huge and included many features that I would never use. I liked the W212 approach better, with Driver Assistance as an option that required P1 (I think) or at most, P2.

c4004matic

Drive pilot has additional sensors such as the grill camera which are used by the other sytems in the P3 package, ergo, you get them all in one shot since there is no real way to separate them. The lower levels have less sensors which are enough for auto brake etc. Personally I love the packages. They lower costs considerably compared to piecemeal ordering. A good example is the E 43, in itself an expensive package, if you fully load a C300 to match a fully loaded E43 the difference in price is less than 10k. For ten k you get a much more powerful engine better brakes better suspension upgraded interior etc.

Mike__S

The issue is P3 is chock full of a bunch of stuff that is not really needed and many would just as soon not pay for. This is the issue here. And, there is a core of Driver Assist functionality that is quite important, and ancillary features that could be packages as Driver Assist Plus. If in doubt, review the German order guide.

Something else must be going on. I believe the source of one shoe fits everyone marketing mentality has its origin in the dynamics of the dealership/manufacture relationship, as opposed to the customer relationship with either the dealer or the manufacturer and particularly nothing to do with providing customers lower "costs".

All manufactures use comprehensive JIT (Just in time) order systems with each of their suppliers. This has significantly lowered the cost of manufacturing complex custom orders, especially for high value items. Custom order lead times might open up slightly in some cases, but costs would not increase significantly. Opening that system up to the customer would not place a significant burden on the manufacture or cost the customer all that much money. Unless some third party had incentive to do so.

The increase in costs are at the dealer level. It would place a burden on the dealers. They might have to actually know the product and carefully work with every customer in the selling process. Complexity for dealers is not in their interest and they have made some very clever arguments to the manufactures to keep things simple and, at the same time, maximize the dealer and the manufacturer's profits.

Dealers sell cars. The rule of thumb is if you come in and they cannot sell you a car, they figure that walkout is gone for ever. Most use what is called the 'program sell'. A very specific set of questions and trained responses to guide the prospective customer into closing a deal or quickly revealing to the sales person that the customer is not worth spending any time with that day. It is best to disengage and roam the floor looking for another dance partner.

If you parry their direct questions that constitute this process by not giving a direct answer and redirecting the conversation to questions you have, just count how many times they will try to put you back on track by repeating, usually completely out of context, a question you have chosen to evade. The program sell is a decision tree, and without concrete answers the sales person does not know how to interact. (like a normal human being)

I realize not all dealerships are run that way, but the majority of them are. That as deeply affected (or infected) the buying experience for the vast majority of customers. The majority of front line sales people know little about what they are selling beyond their study of the order guide and Maroni label. But, they have the program sell down pat.

It is one thing to sell a particular model of Honda in five flavors or a VW in three flavors or a Subaru in four flavors, but with the consolidation of dealerships into maybe 100 "auto groups", of which maybe 15 groups sell 50% of all cars (a guess) this mentality and these selling tactics have spread into luxury car sales.

If you have a simple product lineup, it is easier to train staff, of special interest since retention of sales staff is maybe 10-15% industry wide. It is easier to floor a limited inventory selection and simple to dealer trade inventory. Trade-ins become easier to price. No special nuanced knowledge is required by sales personnel other than the psychology of the 'deal'. It is known that really good sales people follow the hot new cars, freely jumping from brand to brand over the course of several seasons. These high performing individuals do this because they love the 'deal', not the brand.

Now, luxury cars dealerships ought to be different. Yet, what has happened is large dealer chain owners have gotten together (The "National Sales Meeting" at some golf resort) with each manufacturer. The dealers have educated the manufactures as to how dealers can package "value" levels in a way to maximize everyone's cash flow, including your cash outflow. (the cars are packages, but you are bundled, in marketing speak) What happens is they put together these bundles that breakout into neat monthly payment steps for the customer.

The sale persons fundamental job is to discover your price point, by speaking in terms of monthly payments. Oh, well for $75 more a month we can'... and the customer at some point stops sliding chips to the center of the table. This price step technique secures for the customer desirable options in a carrot and stick manner that has become the latest marketing ploy of the industry.

The dealers know what options customers want, so they bundle less essential options with them. The classic MB example was the long standing W212's $4380 heated seat option. Of course, with the W213 heated seats are now a separate option. Only because the hot item for everyone today is Driver Assist, which is stuffed as a $11,000 option instead of a $2600 stand alone option and maybe another $1200 for added, but non-essential functionality. The C-Class recently had its order guide rewritten. You guessed it, Driver Assist, once a stand alone option now comes only in Premium 4. What was $2600 is now a nice, mandatory $5600 picked out of your pocket, a sudden $3000 swing that happens to give the owner a bunch more "stuff" too, want it or not.

The end result is customers may not get exactly what they want, but they can get it quickly, no vaseline.

c4004matic

I have visited mb.de and others. Ordering a car on those is a nightmare, everything is a la carte and the price is outrageous.Why is it that a car built in Germany costs 50% more when sold in own country before taxes? The other big problem with so many options is reliability, it is much tougher to do QA on a product that comes in seven different options than one.

Mike__S

Not only can still you get cloth seats, but for the longest time windup windows were standard in your E class or 5 series in Europe. Freedom of choice? I thought America was built on freedom of choice.

One thing you will also note is mb.de provides the potential buyer about 10 times more information about the systems and options. The car buying public is simply more serious about the process than the size of the wheels and the horsepower. The German driver's attitude about technology is far more sophisticated than the average driver here. But, I digress.

If one takes the time to actually price out a similar car on the mb.de, the price is roughly the same as in the US. Do not forget to back out the 19% VAT. That tax may sound bad, but we pay 9.5% in my neighborhood, with pot holes after every rain, rough roads everywhere and no livable option but to own a car. We may make it though this sixty year period of car infestation in America, but the lack of viable transportation options has always been a worrisome burden for many.

The European market is vastly different than here. The consumption taxes at 19% automatically cause owners to keep their cars as long as possible. If I recall, a close German friend has only had four cars in forty-five years driving. I doubt he has driven over 150,000 miles in his lifetime. Buying a car is a really big event in your life there, not a Saturday afternoon necessity. Dealers make sure they have enough profit from every sale to stay alive, too.

There are also engine displacement and now CO2 license fees to contend with. Fuel tax is high enough to actually keep roads in good repair. There is even a bit left over to subsidize a portion of the excellent public transportation infrastructure. All choices freely made and supported by the EU public.

But, hyperbole about 50% greater prices, the opportunity to become well informed and decide exactly what you want in your 40-70k car is hardly a nightmare. It is the German way, my friend.

ua549

Europe has excellent transportation infrastructure because it is ultra compact compared to the US. Germany with ~80 million people is smaller geographically than Montana with ~1 million people. In the US we use our cars much more than Europeans use theirs.

chillysyrup

Yes, I noticed what has been mentioned above about non-North American Mercedes configurator sites. I do think that whatever the reasoning Mercedes has in not providing these systems a-la-carte will not matter for much longer as the customer will expect these to be provided as standard safety equipment. If Toyota and Lexus can do it, surely Mercedes can as well being a safety conscious brand.

Dashoto

For $3700 (list price from P2-3), the value is right. A lot of what you gain is in Active assists. Hard to say when you would or wouldn't use those safety assists.

Distronic, steer assist, and speed limit pilot are the main on/off stuff. I don't use speed limit pilot.

But for me it's very much worth it for the Distronic, Steer Assist, and all the active safety stuff baked in. 3D parking cameras are nice too.

Mike__S

As early as 2000, it was said if everyone in Germany drove their cars at the same time, all roads would be bumper to bumper traffic!

Mike__S

They have packages, but complete individual order option is German consumer law. I think you are correct that some additional safety features will be mandated in EU. In the states they may not be fully mandated by the government, but you will at a minimum get a hefty insurance discount if you have them, while non-asset cars will gradually see increasing liability rates.

c4004matic

I lived in Germany from 1986-89. Even then there was bumper to bumper traffic very often, particularly on the autobahn. Every year when summer vacation time came along the autobahn was frequently a parking lot, people would even get out of their cars and chat! People tend to forget that Germany is a fairly small, very densely populated country. In those days the sales tax was 14% I think its now 19!!!

Proeliator2001

US has about 85 people per square mile. Germany is nearly 600 and UK is about 660 people per square mile (hence our tiny houses compared to your sprawling multi thousand square feet pads). But you guys have massive areas of the country where hardly anyone lives. Lovely quiet roads there. But you also have sprawling megs cities, so traffic hell there. UK isn't quite so polarised, we have big cities and quiet rural areas but it's all on a smaller quainter scale.

So if car ownership per capita was equal you'd expect our roads to be 8 times busier than yours. But most people live in cities where bulk of roads are or live within an hour or so commute time. Interlinking roads are long but not as densely packed in as city roads. Looking at road network length per 1000 population, US has about 22 kilometers of road per 1000 people, UK has 6, Germany far less, before 3. So Germany is definitely packed. But a fair chunk of your 22 km per 1000 are long cross country roads, thousands of miles of them. If we ignored those types of roads on both sides of the pond id guess traffic levels were fairly even.

Now back on topic, merc marketing and those responsible for picking which bits we can and cannot buy in which market need shooting! No option of leather (real or fake) here unless you go for the sporty set up. No cooled seats. No electric blinds (at least not the side ones). It's not a hot country but why not the choice? No 3d burmester just the basic one. Our teeth may be crooked but that doesn't effect hearing! We only get the sports grill here too, no option of the chrome grill and three pointed bonnet badge. I find it odd, fine to have packages to make it easy to option the car but at this price point your owners are used to ordering their meals exactly how they want them, their not the large fries and drink bridge.

ua549

Configurations have always been country specific. The US does not get many options that are available in other countries.