Mitch105

Non airmatic cars. It say dampers are adjustable. But is this automatic only?
There is no way to set them firm or comfort right?

c4004matic

Correct.
The non airmatic cars "adjustable dampeners" is simply confusing verbage for variable ratio shocks. There are no driver selectable suspension modes. The cars still have the dynamic mode switch but it only controls shift points and steering effort. I like the "steel" suspension it offers a nice combination of sport and lux. If you opt for the comfort model its a little more compliant than the basic setup but also a little more rolly polly. On the E43 (standard airmatic) the different suspension modes are not that different, comfort is firm, sport is a little more buttoned down and sport plus more buttoned down still. However, its never truly harsh, what seems to be "firmed" mostly is rebound, it never feels like you are driving on square wood wheels.
Having driven both the C class and E class with airmatic, the E is noticeably more refined and smooth overall, much like the whole car. The biggest difference between the E and C is how much "bigger", in a good sense, the E class drives, feels and operates.

joshg1001

This is what happens when we let the marketing department run with using terms like "adjustable". Most sophisticated suspensions do this automatically anyway but doesn't it sound better to your ears? lol

Proeliator2001

That's not correct. Non airmatic have normal and sport settings for the suspension, with sport noticeably stiffening the suspension. Eco and comfort is the softest setting, sport and sport plus is the stiffer setting. Was the same on my old w212.

Mitch105

Yes, but we cannot adjust them right? We cannot for example set an individual setting for comfort or firm. There is nothing in the displays that show adjust for suspension. Only for steering, transmission and throttle correct?

Proeliator2001

I'm sure mine shows spring/shock icon when I move through settings, can't remember if it's in the individual selection though. I think it must be, as the throttle/engine/gearbox is one setting, steering another and then there is suspension. I'm check tomorrow to be sure.

vic viper

Check your SA-Codes:


SA459 - Steel suspension with variable damping

SA677 - Avantgarde standard suspension

SA482 - Springs for higher ground clearance

SA489 - Airmatic

SA485 - Comfort running gear



Only SA489 and SA459 have Active variable dampers.

c4004matic

There are 2 ways to have an adjustable suspension air or magnetorrheologic. Steel springed e class vehicles have neither. What they have is variable dampening shocks which vary their dampening according to the amplitude of the load, there is no "selecting" in the process. On the E class only airmatic cars can vary the stiffnes with the dynamic select button.

vic viper

No, vehicles with SA459, variable damping have the same shock system as vehicles with Airmatic

c4004matic

from the MB tech website:
In the SPORT program, the steering and – in the case of vehicles with AIRMATIC – suspension are stiffer and more sportily attuned to each other, providing more agility and dynamism, a more spontaneous throttle response and modified gear change points

The only way the variable dampers could be manually selectable is if they were air shocks with the corresponding pumps etc. In effect airmatic minus levelling. Is this the case? Im certain they are not ferrofluid shocks.

vic viper

SA459 aka "ADS" is pretty much Airmatic without leveling, altough Airmatic takes things one step further by combining different air chambers in the bellows together with the variable damping to enhance the feature.

Shock stiffness is altered through electric acuators placed on the shocks, I cannot confirm that they are ferrofluid type dampers, but I am sure they are not air controlled.

Proeliator2001

This is standard on all UK E class (this is the AMG line model, baae model (SE in our market) doesn't have the 15mm drop but still has selective damping).

"Selective" passive damping.

Like I said, put it in sport and the ride is noticeably firmer and the car more resistive to roll. It's super easy to vary damping of plain oil and air shocks, you don't need airbags or ferrofluids, just vary compression and rebound orifice sizes.

Also, it adjusts stiffness depending on road conditions. In comfort, it floats over large undulations but immediately settles level again without the 'boat at sea' feeling you'd expect to get with the initial softness. In the sense its adaptive not just passive. Not active, it's not reading ahead, but then neither does the airmatic without the magic eye system.

c4004matic

Interesting.... ferrofluid shocks are simplee on and off there are no bellows. The fluid simply changes viscosity when electricity is applied. We need more info on the system. I still suspect they are simply variable rate shocks. Any schematics available??? It could also be a system that somehow controls variable rate shocks. On the 300 I drove the button had no effect on the suspension.

Proeliator2001

Here you go. You'll need to translate.

http://m.mercedes-benz.de/techcenter/agility_control/detail.html

Like I said before, super easy to vary damping by changing orifice size and this is exactly what's being done by the system via use of a bypass. I used to design large civil aircraft landing gear so have a background in shock absorbers.

vic viper

I know how ferrofluid shocks work, the bellows I was refering to was the air bellows with Airmatic, the front system being a single unit strut and in the rear a separate shock and bellows.


Here is a block diagram of the Airmatic system, note for example the front right Y51y1 and y2 damper valves

vic viper

Give me your VIN and I can tell you what kind of shocks you have.

Proeliator2001

Here's a video for you, older system but basic principle is the same

https://youtu.be/fDL9V8562Yk

The only difference is that the system shown there was entirely passive with no user selectable change. The one on the w213, and w212 before it, allows the driver to bias the system, from what Vic says by use of an external piston which varies damping, presumably by opening up/closing damping orifice in a bypass line. Select sport and the orifice is reduced, the max delta from baseline to fully active is reduced but the ride feels sportier. Left in comfort the orifice is enlarged (possibly by use of metering tube, moved by the actuator), the delta between baseline and fully active is as big as possible so the ride is soft but firms up under large movements.

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ua549

Page Translation:

Comfort on all routes.

The damping system ensures balanced driving comfort by optimizing rolling behavior, damping effect and stabilization according to the road surface.

The AGILITY CONTROL system offers you a high level of driving comfort by selectively adapting the damping system to the road surface. Continuous scanning of the ground improves the roll-off comfort with small impacts and the damping effect and the stabilization of the vehicle in the case of relatively large impacts. The AGILITY CONTROL system combines the flexibility of a selective damping system with the effectiveness of a passive damping system. The comfortably tuned conventional spring / damper system is equipped with an amplitude-dependent damping function as a standard feature. The function module of the selective damping system consists of an elastomeric piston, which provides a bypass for the parallel flow of the oil stream parallel to the conventional damper plating. Thus the damping effect is reduced with small impacts in the range between +/- 10 mm. In this way, the rolling comfort and the scanning behavior of the landing gear are significantly improved. In the case of larger chassis excitations, the full damping function is activated by the selective action of the damper.

ua549

My E300 VIN is WDDZF4JB6JA305470. What shocks do I have?

Mitch105

Wow lots of interesting knowledge here. My conclusion here in Canada and probably USA is that non airmatic cars like mine do not have any adjustment dampers. That is we don't have the steel springs with variable dampers. We just have steel springs like any car and we can change the steering, throttle, and tranny. That's why I find the ride too stiff and regret not waiting for airmatic.

c4004matic

Ergo they are simple variable ratio shocks. The dynamic switch has no effect on their operation. My German is pretty basic but that is what I had figured out by reading it. Note they are not run of the mill Monroes from Wal-Mart they are a more modern sophisticated version of the good ol type. Many manufacturers use and have been using these for a while now.

Proeliator2001

It's not clear from that text but I'm telling you, again, that for a fact the suspension IS adjustable between a comfort and a sport setting. Why aren't you getting that?

Having checked in the car today, there is no Individual setting for suspension so I guess it's linked to steering or engine selections (didn't check which as it was only a short journey). It most definitely adjusts between comfort and sport as is stated on mb websites when changing dynamic mode but I do find it odd it's not individually selectable. I prefer comfort most of the time but put it into sport if cross winds are high on motorway as it stops car feeling restless.

I'm sure there is a far more noticeable change with airmatic as the spring rate changes as well as damping, but you can have adjustable (2 stage only) damping in plain shocks which in both stages are variable dependant on rate of change of compression and/or extension, albeit from the videos I posted it looked to be a coarse change from low to high dampening. I thought maybe they had a metering tube/pin that gradually varied damping which was actuator controlled but it sounds more like a simple spring loaded bypass that closes off under higher pressure thus increasing damping to help reduce wallow/ro

I'd​​​​I'd love to see cross sectional drawing or hydraulic schematic of the damper/system to see how it works.

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petee1997

Wrong!

c4004matic

Not trying to diss you at all. We are just trying to figure out how "agility control", which from the video is variable rate shocks, has evolved into a electronically controlled system. Mercedes and most automakers are known for their "newspeak" to muddle the issue whether something is a new system or simply a new name for an old one. Many are simply variations of existing systems. One example is the E63 suspension, its pretty much airmatic with different calibration and continuously variable ratio rather than just 3 set values.
Another way to figure out if your suspension has selectable modes is to look at your dynamic settings screen, if they're "selectable" the struts will be yellow and the yellow portion will change as the suspension moves. My guess that if the new agility control is selectable the shocks will be yellow but the left hand side ride height indicator will not change. On the other hand those animations may be airmatic only too....


On another point..... Does anyone know how the g meter works on the AMG display???? When the car is stopped all the quadrants measure zero however when you are driving there are no numbers nor is there any dot on the target to show the force vector. I suspect that this display only works on the 63 and its not active on the 43.

Mitch105

Thanks for the insight...

Anyway, I did a little experiment today on very familiar roads I drive daily. I did the drive in comfort then again in sport+
Result: Zero difference in ride quality unequivocally zero difference. The throttle response and engine gearing was clear, but there was no change in ride quality.

So, I am not saying I know what the shocks specs are but it seems that our steel springs have no noticeable adjustment that can actually be felt over bumps or in cornering.
Now, is there an issue with my car? Maybe. Probably not.