Reasonable discount over MSRP for 2019 Amg E 53
07-22-2018, 10:44 PM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: MA
Posts: 6,072
Received 1,465 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
2008 E350 4Matic, 2011 E350 4matic
I really, really want the inline six, but am looking at ordering an E450 because of ride quality. Does the 43 really have a good ride? My priority is on ride and luxury over raw power. Benz over Mustang GT any day for me, so living in Phoenix, where the roads are pretty good, no freeze/thaw potholes for example, will the E53 still deliver an exceptional smooth ride?
I could test drive the E43 I guess, but now I’m on the fence. Does the European delivery discount the E53 the same?
07-22-2018, 11:14 PM
#27
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The longer a car sits on a lot, the more it costs the dealer. Think clearly: A dealer only makes money when he sells a car. Cars sitting on his lot ties up his money. Eventually to move that car he offers a discount - regardless of the model.
At some point the buying public just thinks a car is over priced and it sits on the dealer lot. I have seen our local dealer discount the Maybach over $30,000 - just to move the metal. I do not know the demand for the E53.
So each model is different.
When you order a car it is pure profit for the dealer: it comes in and out, no floor planning. That is why sometimes you get an even bigger discount on an ordered car vs. one on a lot.
Of course end of month sale quotients, end of year sales to increase manufacturer incentives and holdbacks also come into play. That is when you get the biggest discount - but also limited choice.
At some point the buying public just thinks a car is over priced and it sits on the dealer lot. I have seen our local dealer discount the Maybach over $30,000 - just to move the metal. I do not know the demand for the E53.
So each model is different.
When you order a car it is pure profit for the dealer: it comes in and out, no floor planning. That is why sometimes you get an even bigger discount on an ordered car vs. one on a lot.
Of course end of month sale quotients, end of year sales to increase manufacturer incentives and holdbacks also come into play. That is when you get the biggest discount - but also limited choice.
07-22-2018, 11:20 PM
#28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I would differentiate that a bit...
In terms of engine, it's a no-brainer. The new inline 6 is a dramatically better engine vs the old V6. While it is new to the US, the engine has been put into a lot of cars (100K plus so far) as it's been around in the rest of the world for a year. There is no downside to this engine with the exception that the driving experience is considered very unemotional (for an AMG). In CLS flavor, the 53 was better than the Panamera 4S. Forget about HP, the power delivery is very linear with truly non-existent turbo lag. If anyone likes ECO Start/Stop (I don't), it is also imperceptible due to the e-start.
That said, a decision for the 53 has little to do with HP. It is about costs, comfort and design.
1. Financial. If leased, MF and residuals matters. In the past, the E43 was heavily subsidized (higher residual and lower MF) This was very un-AMG-like. This can offset some pricing difference and should be a consideration.
2. Suspension will be firmer no matter what. A test drive in all settings and different road surfaces is essential.
3. Personal taste. Based on importance, they may overrule pricing...
In terms of engine, it's a no-brainer. The new inline 6 is a dramatically better engine vs the old V6. While it is new to the US, the engine has been put into a lot of cars (100K plus so far) as it's been around in the rest of the world for a year. There is no downside to this engine with the exception that the driving experience is considered very unemotional (for an AMG). In CLS flavor, the 53 was better than the Panamera 4S. Forget about HP, the power delivery is very linear with truly non-existent turbo lag. If anyone likes ECO Start/Stop (I don't), it is also imperceptible due to the e-start.
That said, a decision for the 53 has little to do with HP. It is about costs, comfort and design.
1. Financial. If leased, MF and residuals matters. In the past, the E43 was heavily subsidized (higher residual and lower MF) This was very un-AMG-like. This can offset some pricing difference and should be a consideration.
2. Suspension will be firmer no matter what. A test drive in all settings and different road surfaces is essential.
3. Personal taste. Based on importance, they may overrule pricing...
i test drove e43 and e 400 and to me in comfort mode they both felt good. E 400was a bit softer ride but not much difference. I am being told, e53 suspension is same as e43.
07-23-2018, 12:49 AM
#29
Try the E400 or E300 with the air suspension. No comparison to the E43 when driving on roads which are not smooth.
07-23-2018, 01:21 AM
#30
Senior Member
Thread Starter
however, if I add all those options to e400 it gets up close to e43 pricing, but I suppose if I want smoother ride it might be worth considering. I am used to driving rs5 convertible which was extremely stiff, so I guess my tolerance for road bumps might be high. Specially in our Sonoma County potholes infested roads. unfortuantely someone ran into me and totaled my car, luckily no injuries.
07-23-2018, 11:48 AM
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
I really, really want the inline six, but am looking at ordering an E450 because of ride quality. Does the 43 really have a good ride? My priority is on ride and luxury over raw power. Benz over Mustang GT any day for me, so living in Phoenix, where the roads are pretty good, no freeze/thaw potholes for example, will the E53 still deliver an exceptional smooth ride?
I could test drive the E43 I guess, but now I’m on the fence. Does the European delivery discount the E53 the same?
07-23-2018, 02:19 PM
#32
Junior Member
I'm a sucker for new technology- and frankly when I read about the E53 I "had to have one". A straight six- perfectly balanced without counterweights. Two, twin-scroll turbochargers and a 48v electric supercharger, and a beltless design with 0-15 MPH handled by electric motor. It has air suspension stock- so I'd expect the ride would be pretty good at a comfort setting. I've read the current discount for European delivery is 7% of the E43, but on other models it drops to 5%. That's why I figured I'd eek out a discount by getting the car in Stuggart.
07-23-2018, 02:23 PM
#33
Junior Member
Link to current discount 7% on E43
http://mbeuropeandelivery.com/savings.php
And I've attached a page from the star magazine with an E53 summary
And I've attached a page from the star magazine with an E53 summary
07-23-2018, 02:53 PM
#34
I'm a sucker for new technology- and frankly when I read about the E53 I "had to have one". A straight six- perfectly balanced without counterweights. Two, twin-scroll turbochargers and a 48v electric supercharger, and a beltless design with 0-15 MPH handled by electric motor. It has air suspension stock- so I'd expect the ride would be pretty good at a comfort setting. I've read the current discount for European delivery is 7% of the E43, but on other models it drops to 5%. That's why I figured I'd eek out a discount by getting the car in Stuggart.
I see the E53 power-train essentially as a Rube Goldberg machine. The twin turbo V6 they were using before didn't lack smoothness, was already linear enough in its torque delivery, and the fuel consumption of the mild hybrid solution isn't significantly lower. It's kind of a complicated solution for a problem that didn't exist. It doesn't make it significantly more powerful either, so I would put the extra cost and complexity in a V8 instead.
There may be some rationale for this technology in Europe and some other places due to the way their taxes increase on displacement, emissions, and fuel consumption where even some small tweaks on that make a big difference. In the US, give me a V8TT instead any day.
Last edited by visualguy; 07-23-2018 at 02:56 PM.
07-23-2018, 03:02 PM
#35
Junior Member
Those are good points... but the Dealer Ordering Guide (which I couldn't attach because it's 9MB) for the 2019 E series predicts 0-60 at 5.3 seconds for the E450, and 4.4 seconds for the E53 (a second faster still for the E63). I think you'd really notice that difference between the 2 cars. 5.3 is respectable but nothing noteworthy, 4.4 you'd notice. And they don't seem that far apart price wise when similarly configured.
07-23-2018, 03:14 PM
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
Those are good points... but the Dealer Ordering Guide (which I couldn't attach because it's 9MB) for the 2019 E series predicts 0-60 at 5.3 seconds for the E450, and 4.4 seconds for the E53 (a second faster still for the E63). I think you'd really notice that difference between the 2 cars. 5.3 is respectable but nothing noteworthy, 4.4 you'd notice. And they don't seem that far apart price wise when similarly configured.
Last edited by rbrylaw; 07-23-2018 at 03:47 PM.
07-23-2018, 03:45 PM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
I see the I6 EQ engine as much more elegant and simple than the V6 engine. No more lead/acid battery. A/C maintains cabin temperature (keeps running) when car is idled or stopped. No turbo lag. With EQ many of the bolt on bits and pieces are gone. No pulleys and belts; no counter rotating balance shaft; starter and generator are replaced with a single unit; there are fewer castings, etc. The I6 in its highest tune (435 HP) is only 6% less than the 4 liter twin turbo V8 sold in the US in the S560.
07-23-2018, 04:22 PM
#38
Junior Member
You must be looking at a different Dealer Order Guide for the E450 than me. Mine clearly says the 450 goes 0 - 60 in 5.0 seconds. And I watched a YouTube video where it was tested and actually hit 0 - 60 in 4.9 seconds. If you honestly think you can tell the difference between fractions of a second, your internal speedometer is far more sensitive than mine.
07-23-2018, 04:28 PM
#39
That would be a question for the dealers. Some AMG models don't get the same discount. Kinda depends on where MB is at the time in terms of demand. You can try contacting some of the dealers mentioned in the European delivery thread. I think there's one guy there that gets mentioned a lot and he discounts a little more than the standard 7%..
07-23-2018, 04:33 PM
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
I suspect the build guide you have was issued before 7/03/18. I have the updated build guide from 7/03/18, which says the following (though I can't figure out how to capture just the one page:
MSRP $59,950
3.0L V6 biturboengine
Horsepower 362 hp
Torque 369 lb-ft
5.0 sec est. (0-60 mph)
Launch date: Q3 2018
And the revision list is as follows:
Date
Changes
02/26/18
FirstDraft MY19 DOG
03/03/18
Renaming of LuxuryLine (167) to Luxury Styling
Updated option pricing for Acoustic Comfort Package (PAF)
04/06/18
Delayed availability due to global constraint of Head-Up Display (463)
04/24/18
Updated availability of LED logo projectors (15A)
04/27/18
E300/ 4M included
Updatedspecial order option –Sun Protection Package (313)
05/01/18
AMG E53 Sedan added to DOG
05/04/18
Omission of Galvanized ShiftPaddles (431) from Luxury Styling (167)
05/08/18
Updated pricing for AMG trims H09 and 736
05/15/18
Updated option package for designoBlack/ Titanium Grey Pearl (P62) and designoMacchiato Beige/ Titian Red (P87): added chrome door pins
05/23/18
Pricing announcement of E 450 4M, E 53 & E63 S
Updated option pricing (E 53 & E 63 S only):
-Sun Protection Pkg(313)
-AMG Nappa/ Black Piano Lacquer Performance Steering Wheel (L6L)
Updated Night Package (521) description
06/07/18 Delayed availability for LED Logo Projectors (15A) for E300/4M & E450 4M & AMG LED Crest Projectors (25A) for E 53 & E 63 S
07/03/18 Updated acceleration 0-60 mph (sec) –5.0 seconds
MSRP $59,950
3.0L V6 biturboengine
Horsepower 362 hp
Torque 369 lb-ft
5.0 sec est. (0-60 mph)
Launch date: Q3 2018
And the revision list is as follows:
Date
Changes
02/26/18
FirstDraft MY19 DOG
03/03/18
Renaming of LuxuryLine (167) to Luxury Styling
Updated option pricing for Acoustic Comfort Package (PAF)
04/06/18
Delayed availability due to global constraint of Head-Up Display (463)
04/24/18
Updated availability of LED logo projectors (15A)
04/27/18
E300/ 4M included
Updatedspecial order option –Sun Protection Package (313)
05/01/18
AMG E53 Sedan added to DOG
05/04/18
Omission of Galvanized ShiftPaddles (431) from Luxury Styling (167)
05/08/18
Updated pricing for AMG trims H09 and 736
05/15/18
Updated option package for designoBlack/ Titanium Grey Pearl (P62) and designoMacchiato Beige/ Titian Red (P87): added chrome door pins
05/23/18
Pricing announcement of E 450 4M, E 53 & E63 S
Updated option pricing (E 53 & E 63 S only):
-Sun Protection Pkg(313)
-AMG Nappa/ Black Piano Lacquer Performance Steering Wheel (L6L)
Updated Night Package (521) description
06/07/18 Delayed availability for LED Logo Projectors (15A) for E300/4M & E450 4M & AMG LED Crest Projectors (25A) for E 53 & E 63 S
07/03/18 Updated acceleration 0-60 mph (sec) –5.0 seconds
Last edited by rbrylaw; 07-23-2018 at 04:38 PM.
07-23-2018, 05:17 PM
#43
MBWorld Fanatic!
AMG E53(213.061)
MSRP $72,550
AMG-enhanced 3.0L inline-6 turbo engine with EQ Boost
429 hp
384 lb-ft
EQ Boost Starter-Alternator outputs 21 hp
4.4 sec (est. 0-60 mph)
Launch date: Q3 2018
This is why I would think a little harder about going with the E53. .6 seconds to 60 MPH isn't really significant. At least to me, it's not. It's only 62 HP more potent. But it's an AMG and there is a difference between a real AMG and pseudo AMG Styling ala E450. The question is, is it worth $12,600 to you?
07-23-2018, 05:33 PM
#44
Here you go:
AMG E53(213.061)
MSRP $72,550
AMG-enhanced 3.0L inline-6 turbo engine with EQ Boost
429 hp
384 lb-ft
EQ Boost Starter-Alternator outputs 21 hp
4.4 sec (est. 0-60 mph)
Launch date: Q3 2018
This is why I would think a little harder about going with the E53. .6 seconds to 60 MPH isn't really significant. At least to me, it's not. It's only 62 HP more potent. But it's an AMG and there is a difference between a real AMG and pseudo AMG Styling ala E450. The question is, is it worth $12,600 to you?
AMG E53(213.061)
MSRP $72,550
AMG-enhanced 3.0L inline-6 turbo engine with EQ Boost
429 hp
384 lb-ft
EQ Boost Starter-Alternator outputs 21 hp
4.4 sec (est. 0-60 mph)
Launch date: Q3 2018
This is why I would think a little harder about going with the E53. .6 seconds to 60 MPH isn't really significant. At least to me, it's not. It's only 62 HP more potent. But it's an AMG and there is a difference between a real AMG and pseudo AMG Styling ala E450. The question is, is it worth $12,600 to you?
It's also important to note that there are some disadvantages to the E53 when compared to the E450. One is the ride quality (if the E53 is like the E43 and the E450 is like the E400) assuming you care about that. Another is the seat comfort - the bolsters on the seat backs on the AMG are fairly annoying. Beyond that, the power-train on the E450 is much more mature and proven.
07-23-2018, 06:17 PM
#46
Junior Member
I'm really enjoying this thread guys thanks. But price difference shrinks when you consider that the following options, which I'd get, comes with the AMG but not the E450 (if I'm reading the DOG right)...
Perf package 1 $3,150
Conv. pkg 2,400 0 (correction)
AMG style 500
19" wheels 500
dig instr cluster 850
*Air suspension* $1,900
that sums to $9300 $6,900
The difference in base prices = $72250 - $59950 = $12,600
so, unless I've made a mistake somewhere - if you want those options may as well get the AMG.
Now I did notice heads up display isn't avail on the AMG, and the issue with ride may be salient. John
Perf package 1 $3,150
Conv. pkg
AMG style 500
19" wheels 500
dig instr cluster 850
*Air suspension* $1,900
that sums to $
The difference in base prices = $72250 - $59950 = $12,600
so, unless I've made a mistake somewhere - if you want those options may as well get the AMG.
Now I did notice heads up display isn't avail on the AMG, and the issue with ride may be salient. John
Last edited by jsclarke; 07-24-2018 at 07:45 PM.
07-23-2018, 06:20 PM
#47
I'm really enjoying this thread guys thanks. But price difference shrinks when you consider that the following options, which I'd get, comes with the AMG but not the E450 (if I'm reading the DOG right)...
Perf package 1 $3,150
Conv. pkg 2,400
AMG style 500
19" wheels 500
dig instr cluster 850
*Air suspension* $1,900
that sums to $9300
The difference in base prices = $72250 - $59950 = $12,600
so, unless I've made a mistake somewhere - if you want those options may as well get the AMG.
Now I did notice heads up display isn't avail on the AMG, and the issue with ride may be salient. John
Perf package 1 $3,150
Conv. pkg 2,400
AMG style 500
19" wheels 500
dig instr cluster 850
*Air suspension* $1,900
that sums to $9300
The difference in base prices = $72250 - $59950 = $12,600
so, unless I've made a mistake somewhere - if you want those options may as well get the AMG.
Now I did notice heads up display isn't avail on the AMG, and the issue with ride may be salient. John
07-23-2018, 07:01 PM
#48
I'm really enjoying this thread guys thanks. But price difference shrinks when you consider that the following options, which I'd get, comes with the AMG but not the E450 (if I'm reading the DOG right)...
Perf package 1 $3,150
Conv. pkg 2,400
AMG style 500
19" wheels 500
dig instr cluster 850
*Air suspension* $1,900
that sums to $9300
The difference in base prices = $72250 - $59950 = $12,600
so, unless I've made a mistake somewhere - if you want those options may as well get the AMG.
Now I did notice heads up display isn't avail on the AMG, and the issue with ride may be salient. John
Perf package 1 $3,150
Conv. pkg 2,400
AMG style 500
19" wheels 500
dig instr cluster 850
*Air suspension* $1,900
that sums to $9300
The difference in base prices = $72250 - $59950 = $12,600
so, unless I've made a mistake somewhere - if you want those options may as well get the AMG.
Now I did notice heads up display isn't avail on the AMG, and the issue with ride may be salient. John
07-23-2018, 10:16 PM
#49
Super Moderator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Land of 10,000 lakes
Posts: 9,984
Received 3,171 Likes
on
1,977 Posts
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
I see the I6 EQ engine as much more elegant and simple than the V6 engine. No more lead/acid battery. A/C maintains cabin temperature (keeps running) when car is idled or stopped. No turbo lag. With EQ many of the bolt on bits and pieces are gone. No pulleys and belts; no counter rotating balance shaft; starter and generator are replaced with a single unit; there are fewer castings, etc. The I6 in its highest tune (435 HP) is only 6% less than the 4 liter twin turbo V8 sold in the US in the S560.
This conversation already happened in Europe a while back and nobody would consider a V6 over the I6. It’s a fine engine but inferior. Simple as that.
Discussing hp/torque/0-60 misses the point.
07-23-2018, 10:20 PM
#50
I'm really enjoying this thread guys thanks. But price difference shrinks when you consider that the following options, which I'd get, comes with the AMG but not the E450 (if I'm reading the DOG right)...
Perf package 1 $3,150
Conv. pkg 2,400
AMG style 500
19" wheels 500
dig instr cluster 850
*Air suspension* $1,900
that sums to $9300
The difference in base prices = $72250 - $59950 = $12,600
so, unless I've made a mistake somewhere - if you want those options may as well get the AMG.
Now I did notice heads up display isn't avail on the AMG, and the issue with ride may be salient. John
Perf package 1 $3,150
Conv. pkg 2,400
AMG style 500
19" wheels 500
dig instr cluster 850
*Air suspension* $1,900
that sums to $9300
The difference in base prices = $72250 - $59950 = $12,600
so, unless I've made a mistake somewhere - if you want those options may as well get the AMG.
Now I did notice heads up display isn't avail on the AMG, and the issue with ride may be salient. John
Also the Euro discount is greater with the non AMG car! I’m going with the 450.
And the rides probably better smoother.
