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Russmna29 08-18-2018 08:36 PM

Good lease or bad?
 
New to this forum. Currently have a 2016 E400 Convertible and the lease coming up in the next few months (early December) and looking to get into a sedan. Living just North of NYC with 8.375% sales tax. I leased the cab in the 4th qtr of 2015 and have a 3yr/45k lease. I had a MB corporate control number from a good friend so that helped and I got a screamin deal... Sticker was $75,400 and I put nothing down but the 1st month, DMV and dealer fees (no cap cost, no tax) and my payment is $892. Went to a dealer looking to get into 2018 E400 sedan but Iíd consider a 300. MB will waive the last few payments, I want P03/Q03 package and wonít get a car without it so that jacks up my price.

I found a car car that met my needs, a 2018 E400 in Lunar Blue equipped the way I wanted and ironically, with the EXACT same sticker as my 2016 Cab, $75,400. I have another MB control number so I expected the numbers would be somewhat similar for the exact same lease, 3yr/45k with no tax or cap cost down. 2 cars, same price... 3 years apart... gotta be close, no? Prime is up so I expect a bit higher numbers...

$1037/month was the number with around $1700 out the door.

Is now not a really good time for residuals and MFís? Was the end of 2015 just that much better?? Without knowing about the $892 I currently pay, how does the $1037 look to this forum? Does that seem like a good deal and my 2016 an enigma? Something just doesnít add up! Could they have not applied the Ďfriend and familyí control number? I even looked at a E300 with a sticker of around $68k and it was $938! Certainly not leaving a perfectly lovely rag top heading to the best months of the year in the northeast only to pay more for a sedan when I donít have to.

As the E450ís get closer to showroom, will the current inventory of 400ís be priced aggressively? Is it worth just waiting? If the car I want is gonna be $1000+ no matter what, Iíll just wait for the 450


AZEZ 08-19-2018 12:46 PM

Without doing the math on your deal, I can comment that leasing today seems higher than at any time in the past. My last two BMWs had MSRPs in the upper $80's, and payments of $870 (with $5k down) on 36 mo. 30k mile leases. Today that same MSRP is over $1000 for the same deal, and the MB quotes have been the same. Im told residuals are coming down. Before they made a market with the high residuals to sell new cars (and BMW had lots of incentives no longer available) but with the improved economy the manufacturers are taking advantage.

rbrylaw 08-19-2018 02:50 PM


Originally Posted by Russmna29 (Post 7532444)
New to this forum. Currently have a 2016 E400 Convertible and the lease coming up in the next few months (early December) and looking to get into a sedan. Living just North of NYC with 8.375% sales tax. I leased the cab in the 4th qtr of 2015 and have a 3yr/45k lease. I had a MB corporate control number from a good friend so that helped and I got a screamin deal... Sticker was $75,400 and I put nothing down but the 1st month, DMV and dealer fees (no cap cost, no tax) and my payment is $892. Went to a dealer looking to get into 2018 E400 sedan but I’d consider a 300. MB will waive the last few payments, I want P03/Q03 package and won’t get a car without it so that jacks up my price.

I found a car car that met my needs, a 2018 E400 in Lunar Blue equipped the way I wanted and ironically, with the EXACT same sticker as my 2016 Cab, $75,400. I have another MB control number so I expected the numbers would be somewhat similar for the exact same lease, 3yr/45k with no tax or cap cost down. 2 cars, same price... 3 years apart... gotta be close, no? Prime is up so I expect a bit higher numbers...

$1037/month was the number with around $1700 out the door.

Is now not a really good time for residuals and MF’s? Was the end of 2015 just that much better?? Without knowing about the $892 I currently pay, how does the $1037 look to this forum? Does that seem like a good deal and my 2016 an enigma? Something just doesn’t add up! Could they have not applied the ‘friend and family’ control number? I even looked at a E300 with a sticker of around $68k and it was $938! Certainly not leaving a perfectly lovely rag top heading to the best months of the year in the northeast only to pay more for a sedan when I don’t have to.

As the E450’s get closer to showroom, will the current inventory of 400’s be priced aggressively? Is it worth just waiting? If the car I want is gonna be $1000+ no matter what, I’ll just wait for the 450



If you found a 2018 with the exact options you want, grab it. There are no more 2018's coming and the inventories of them will only go down as we head into the new model year. And the 2019's will only cost more.

Russmna29 08-20-2018 09:15 AM

Sound advice. Not what I was hoping to hear but sound nonetheless. I think I’ll wait and see what September/October bring. That $1000/month is a psychological threshold that’s not easily crossed

Russmna29 08-20-2018 09:20 AM

Back when I leased the current car, Prime had finally inched to 3.5% from the 3.25% it had been for 7 years. Now it’s at 5%. Between that and the banks being more conservative on residuals certainly explains the increased costs.

Russmna29 08-20-2018 09:21 AM

Thanks for the insight

rbrylaw 08-20-2018 09:25 AM


Originally Posted by Russmna29 (Post 7533243)
Sound advice. Not what I was hoping to hear but sound nonetheless. I think Iíll wait and see what September/October bring. That $1000/month is a psychological threshold thatís not easily crossed

Just tell your dealer you'll take the car, but the payment has to be lower than $1K/month. Your talking about $37/month, which isn't that much for them to eat.

Russmna29 08-20-2018 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by rbrylaw (Post 7533250)
Just tell your dealer you'll take the car, but the payment has to be lower than $1K/month. Your talking about $37/month, which isn't that much for them to eat.

Absolutely right. I think i'll drive the convertible for 1 more month and see how it plays out. I have nearly 4 months left, no sense of urgency.

rbrylaw 08-20-2018 10:05 AM


Originally Posted by Russmna29 (Post 7533285)
Absolutely right. I think i'll drive the convertible for 1 more month and see how it plays out. I have nearly 4 months left, no sense of urgency.

Hope it all works out for you. I didn't know I could love a car as much as I love my E400!

JTK44 08-20-2018 04:48 PM

Just my $.02: never ever put anything down on a lease: In the event your car is totaled or stolen, anything you put down is gone - puff like smoke. Today with the complexities of the modern car including replacement of air bags, minor fender benders of years past can turn into the insurance company totaling your car.

I too am coming out of my lease on my 2016 E350: I know I got a killer deal: MSRP was $62,640 plus two-year maintenance ($890), monthly payment of $632 which includes NYS sales tax at rate of 8.625% and bank fee included in the lease payment. At lease inception all I paid was first months lease payment and NY registration $170. Lease is 36 months 10,000 miles per year.

I leased at the end of December 2015 so there were end of year incentives to the dealer, plus the new models were coming out. Interesting my dealer had to get the car from another dealer. I actually contacted the other dealer and his price was much higher, so I guess my "sale" helped my dealer with his end of year hold backs.

Two things that are not variable on the lease: residual and money factor (interest rate). Of course, the residual is a function of mileage and term of lease. The MSRP is fixed so the only real variable is your negotiated price which will include all incentives and how much of his profit the dealer is willing to give you.

Here is a link to the lease calculator I use:

https://www.leaseguide.com/calc/

In 2015 MB was supporting the lease payments with relatively high residuals (60%) for end of model year and very low interest rates.

I am also using a Costco affiliated MB dealer and will then compare his price with my local dealer.

As I want all the safety features and a particular color (silver but not black interior) I too may be forced to order a 2019 E450 as there are very few 2018 E400 around in my color with the safety features I want.

I will start my search in September for delivery in December when my present lease runs out.

BTW, my lease is "upside down" in that the residual, $37,459 is much higher than the book value of my car so buying it at the end makes no sense.

cetialpha5 08-20-2018 10:03 PM


Originally Posted by JTK44 (Post 7533718)
BTW, my lease is "upside down" in that the residual, $37,459 is much higher than the book value of my car so buying it at the end makes no sense.

Those are the best deals. That means the manufacturer is losing money on the lease deal and you're paying less per month than the actual depreciation. With a lower residual value, the manufacturer isn't eating as much of the cost.

Leasehackr.com also has good calculators. You really need the money factor, all discounts/incentives and the residual to figure out whether you're getting a good deal or not.

JTK44 08-20-2018 10:45 PM

The residuals and money factor are information that your dealer will give you - mine always does, but you must ask.

You can also go to advertised Lease Deals under the MBUSA.com web site. There under lease details you will see the MSRP and the residual value. Divide the residual by the MSRP and you get the percentage.

Upside down: Almost every lease out there at the end the residual is more than the book value. That is why over 90% of leases at the end, the car is turned in.

If residuals reflected book value at the end of the lease, they would be so low and lease payments so high, sales would really suffer.

Remember over 70% of MB, E, S and M class are leased. Without factory support, (high residuals), sales would tank.

MB, BMW and Audi, take the cars at the end of the lease and resell them to other countries, at a profit. For example, you turned in car will be sold somewhere in South America or the middle East at a profit.

.

G3710 08-21-2018 12:23 AM

Currently leasing a 2017 E300 MSRP 63k
Drive off little over 1k + 4k in MSD's
$410 with maintenance 2year/10k

There is a tremendous amount of information online, for 1k/month I personally would not be looking at the E Class, you can get a lot more car for that monthly. Some other examples of lease deals I have been able to get are 2015 528i 52k msrp- 299$ 0$ drive off expect MSD's. Chevy Equinox 33k msrp one pay 2k for 2/24k
If you are set on a particular build it makes negotiations very tough, I was able to find the color and specs I wanted on the E300, black on nut brown, airmatic with sports package.

A good lease deal is monthly payment being 1% of the MSRP $0 down

G3710 08-21-2018 01:25 AM

No work involved
$0 down 750+tax on a 100k 7 series
1500$ down lease transfer on a E300 P2 package $500 ( meh deal prob can get the $1500 knocked off)

JTK44 08-21-2018 07:11 AM

Dear G3710:

You wrote:

"A good lease deal is monthly payment being 1% of the MSRP $0 down"

Is 1% of MSRP including tax and bank fee?

How many months and what mileage per year. At 1% are you saying at lease inception all you pay is first month's payment plus motor vehicle fees, usually less than $200.

Russmna29 08-21-2018 11:56 AM


Originally Posted by JTK44 (Post 7534223)
Dear G3710:

You wrote:

"A good lease deal is monthly payment being 1% of the MSRP $0 down"

Is 1% of MSRP including tax and bank fee?

How many months and what mileage per year. At 1% are you saying at lease inception all you pay is first month's payment plus motor vehicle fees, usually less than $200.

MB Financial is the same in any US State, no? They set the MF's and RV's and there shouldn't be any regional differences, correct? The only variable is how much profit the dealer wants to (or doesn't) want to make. I imagine how good a customer you are, the month they are having, how bad they want the car off the lot, if they had to secure it from another dealer, etc all play into it.

So, for sake of argument, each $1000 in cap cost relates to around $30/monthly payment. If a $75000 MSRP is discounted to $71,000 from one dealer and sticker from the other... could there be a variation of $120/month in lease payments? Assuming all other things equal

teksurv 08-21-2018 01:53 PM

For reference if it helps, I leased my 2018 E400 coupe in January. MSRP $72,XXX. First month plus fees down, 36/30k $859/month including SoCal tax.

Russmna29 08-21-2018 01:58 PM


Originally Posted by teksurv (Post 7534521)
For reference if it helps, I leased my 2018 E400 coupe in January. MSRP $72,XXX. First month plus fees down, 36/30k $859/month including SoCal tax.

That's an excellent reference. The one Im looking at is $75,XXX with 36/45k with similar down at around $1000.... so he doesn't seem too far off. I think it makes sense to wait a month. I just made a payment on the current car and the next one is due 9/20. At that time, I can look to pull the trigger. I gotta believe the numbers are not going to be any more as MB will be one month closer to getting the '19's in and will be eager to sell the remaining 400's. Big question... do I wait for the E450 with the add'l HP and a few interior refinements?

rbrylaw 08-21-2018 02:02 PM


Originally Posted by Russmna29 (Post 7534526)
That's an excellent reference. The one Im looking at is $75,XXX with 36/45k with similar down at around $1000.... so he doesn't seem too far off. I think it makes sense to wait a month. I just made a payment on the current car and the next one is due 9/20. At that time, I can look to pull the trigger. I gotta believe the numbers are not going to be any more as MB will be one month closer to getting the '19's in and will be eager to sell the remaining 400's. Big question... do I wait for the E450 with the add'l HP and a few interior refinements?

How important would an extra 33 HP be to you? It's going to cost you more to get into a 2019, so that would be a deciding factor for me. Since I had ordered a 2019 E450, but wound up buying a E400 off the lot, it turns out the extra HP wasn't worth it to me.

Russmna29 08-21-2018 02:21 PM


Originally Posted by rbrylaw (Post 7534538)
How important would an extra 33 HP be to you? It's going to cost you more to get into a 2019, so that would be a deciding factor for me. Since I had ordered a 2019 E450, but wound up buying a E400 off the lot, it turns out the extra HP wasn't worth it to me.

It wouldn't be that impactful and I think im going to do the 400 mid-September vs now. Thank you

rbrylaw 08-21-2018 02:27 PM


Originally Posted by Russmna29 (Post 7534577)
It wouldn't be that impactful and I think im going to do the 400 mid-September vs now. Thank you

Good luck. I hope whatever you get makes you as happy as my E400 makes me!

JTK44 08-21-2018 06:53 PM

Remember that the residuals on the 2018 change every 60 days and they always go down, never up.

The residuals on the 2019 will be higher than the residuals on the 2018 so leasing the 2019 E450 may actually be cheaper than leasing the 2018 E400!

BTW, I have ordered cars vs. taking cars off the dealer lot. Sometimes the savings on taking a stock car are not that much more than ordering a car. Remember when you order a car, there is no floor plan expense: it is sale and sometimes the dealer needs sales, especially at the end of the year as holdbacks and other dealer incentives are determined by the number of cars sold. So a dealer can take an order at a loss, as it will boost his incentives which will more than cover the loss.

Unlike RBYLAW I have done an internet search for 2018 E400 in stock and cannot find one that has what I want and those that have the safety features I want, have so many extras that I do not want that drove the price upwards, that I am better off just ordering a 2019 E450.

Russmna29 08-21-2018 07:43 PM


Originally Posted by JTK44 (Post 7534873)
Remember that the residuals on the 2018 change every 60 days and they always go down, never up.

The residuals on the 2019 will be higher than the residuals on the 2018 so leasing the 2019 E450 may actually be cheaper than leasing the 2018 E400!

BTW, I have ordered cars vs. taking cars off the dealer lot. Sometimes the savings on taking a stock car are not that much more than ordering a car. Remember when you order a car, there is no floor plan expense: it is sale and sometimes the dealer needs sales, especially at the end of the year as holdbacks and other dealer incentives are determined by the number of cars sold. So a dealer can take an order at a loss, as it will boost his incentives which will more than cover the loss.

Unlike RBYLAW I have done an internet search for 2018 E400 in stock and cannot find one that has what I want and those that have the safety features I want, have so many extras that I do not want that drove the price upwards, that I am better off just ordering a 2019 E450.


You make an excellent point. However, in my case, I am fortunate to have a MB corporate employee control number. According to the paperwork, itís a flat 12.25% off MSRP, period. No other incentives... if your logic holds true, the E450 should lease better at the same cost of entry. At that flat %, theyíd certainly rather sell an in-stock unit more than ordering one that they could sell to someone else much closer to MSRP.

JTK44 08-21-2018 07:51 PM

I do not have access to a MB corporate employee control number. What is that?

12.25% off of MSRP is excellent!

If you can get 12.25% off of either a 2018 E400 or a 2019 E450 and there are no other incentives, the residuals on the 2019 will be much higher and offset any increase in price between the 2018 E400 and the 2019 E450, so yes the 2019 should lease cheaper than a 2018.

I have looked over the DOG for 2019 and the prices for a 2018 E400 and 2019 E450 with the same equipment are within $500. Even if the 2019 cost $500 more and the residuals are the same, which of course they are not, the residuals on the 2019 are higher, a one year newer car is worth more than $500 on resale!

Dealers order cars for stock and for customers: As I said sometimes the deals on an ordered car, because it is a "sale" are even better than on an in stock car and of course sometimes the opposite!

Russmna29 08-21-2018 08:03 PM

The 12,25% is for MB corporate employees, their families and perhaps friends. Corporate employees get 2 per calendar year to use and would be fired for trying to profit from them. I have a close friend. I am going to call my dealer in the AM and see what I can order in terms of the 2019. Where online might one see the pricing? I’ve seen the base MSRP abut none of the options, what is available or pricing on them.


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