tonecas

i'm still dealing with the configuration of an E63 S and now i am revisiting the issue of ordering or not the PE.

i'm not a big fan of very loud engines that attract too much attention (well, at least for that there are true sports car like Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren).
the E63 S is a tremendous car in that aspect, providing an extremely good family car and at the same time look, feel and behave sporty, classy BUT not flashy.

i find the standard AMG sport exhaust very good, one of the best in the market, without being on steroids on any minor acceleration or downshift.

and that is what it seems to do the PE. don't get me wrong. the tone and general sound is still sublime, even better, but it turns me off when it starts with all those pops and crackles that seem to me exaggerated and out of timing.
accelerating is still acceptable as the pops and crackles join the revving up sound and pitch. but the problem is every downshift or de-deceleration. i simply cannot drive it without it making at least one loud pop/crackle. WHY, oh WHY i ask?

if i take a Lambo the sound is beautiful, notwithstanding being loud, and anyone understands why it sounds like that: it looks mean, it looks flashy so it should sound like a beast. the loud sound matches the revs and pitch variation, with pops and crackles coming at the right moment and not at ANY moment "just because". the Lambo makes less crackles than the E63 S with PE! that is absurd...

i know this is a debatable subject and i believe most people like the PE. i get it if i think on those times that i may go to a car event, a race or simply on those rare times i want to simply show off. that's why i am struggling with ticking the box or not on this. i believe most of the time i will be turning off the PE and it will stay there for most of the time. on the other side, since i believe most people like this, it adds to the residual value when i sell it (yeah, i think about the future). and yeah, it is there if i want it.

because I like to know how things work and why, i've been trying to understand how this PE works. there is very lack of information and it seems that it manages the exhaust valves differently, and has different pipe dimensions and resonance chamber. so it is not a simple matter of software management.

visually how the valves work in the C63 S:

what's your take on this? like to know your thoughts.

rbrylaw

My Thoughts? You couldn't pay me to have an exhaust system that sounded like a boat.

tonecas

fair enough!

guhvies

The E63 and E63s have their own forum, W213AMG. You should consider posting there.

tonecas

oops. my bad. i thought i'd open it on that section. is there a way to move a thread?

jhpmbusa

have you test driven the car? Do you enjoy the rest of the car in general? If you do not like the exhaust, just wondering how you take the hard suspension or any of the other higher performance engineering of the car. Perhaps an E53 might suit your needs better?

tonecas

yep, i had it for a full day. simply loved it. only downside i found was the info system (too slow, specially the maps, and complex to get things done quickly with lots of menus)
however, this is my first high ticket car. tried other high performance cars but never owned one. the ride for me is great. more than great. but then again, i come from lower end models...
i could do with an E53 sure. But nothing matches a V8 and all the power and overwhelming stuff that the E63 S brings.
the standard exhaust sounds very good. actually i don't mind it if it could be a bit louder and more burbling, but not excessive and out of sync with the motor pitch and revs like the PE seems to do. i simply can't get over those very loud pops on downshifts or simple decelerations. it always comes to my mind those many tuning guys i saw over my youth where they placed big wings, side skirts, large exhaust pipes and lots of pops and crackles on lower end cars. it looks lame and cheeky.

if i can express it in other words, the problem i see in the PE is that the pops are too loud regarding the overall sound that is coming from the engine. it sounds out of place, artificial, just to show-off making noise.

i found this guy that says that the exhaust system of a C63 S could be tuned with a software upgrade from MB:

don't know if this is true and if there could be something in the E63 S that could tweak just those pops on the PE system. but then again, if there is such a thing I'm almost sure it will only increase the pops, not level them...

rbrylaw

Clearly the "old" man in me, but WHY?

tonecas

to me the engine's sound is a deal breaker in this type of car. probably in 50 years no one will care about engine noise. they will be all electric, autonomous and silent. but i grew up seeing cars getting more powerful, learning how to handle that power and joy and the engine/exhaust sound just complements the experience. i'm abandoning the manual gears already but cannot let the sound go. if i wanted a family car just to drive me from A to B in comfort there were lot of cheaper options for that. but i want a sporty, powerful and dynamic car, and this one that gets the best of both worlds, which by itself is a wonderful thing to hold and behold. sound is therefore part of the experience. but it has to be a good sound, not sound just to be louder and flashy. it has to make sense.

rbrylaw

I'm more having fun with you tonecas. I don't have a problem with engine exhaust sound. I don't personally want a look at me sounding car, but it's fine for anyone who does. I'm more into having enough power on hand to get me going when I need it, but in quiet, refined comfort. But that's me.

tonecas

AZEZ

I did not order the PE on my E53AMG. Sounds great, but for me, the every day sound driving to and from work, the standard exhaust with pops and growl is awesome but not too over bearing. Plus my wife said no way she wants to be in that loud car all the time (and she is 20 years younger than me so RBRYLAW you are not alone old man notwithstanding). Every morning I hear my neighbor's wife starting her BMW M3.

rbrylaw

There are several 'uber dudes (with $$$) in our neighborhood with E63 S's, GLS's, Jag's BMW M's etc., and they're always trying to out exhaust each other. I suppose for the 'uber' dudes it's a right of passage. But not for me. One of those things would give me a headache. Yes they would.

tonecas

ahahaha. my wife tells me the same, but i decided just for once i will be the boss.
i have a neighbor that starts his motorcycle on the street and lets it warm up while he equips himself up with all ease. that machine is loud AF, and we supposedly have rules against noise in Europe, and if someone would test the dBs coming out of that thing it would be seized on the spot. in that sense the PE is kind of silent

Slugsy

Wolfman

We have the performance exhaust on our E63s. The car is loud by any measure but it also meant to be that way. AMG customers will argue why to buy a performance car if it doesn't sound way. Unlike a regular sedan, it delivers the associated auditory experience. I don't mind the sound but ride most of the time in the quieter setting as the loud setting (open flaps) is default with the Sport Plus and Race mode. The suspension is too firm for my wife's back.
This is clearly not for everyone but then it's also not for everyone to spend twice the money for a mid-level sedan to make it go to 60 in 3 seconds. None of this is based on reason or rationale (especially not in the US) but typically emotion

tonecas

That's exactly it. Emotion. That is the main ingredient with this car. Like I've said, the loudness of the standard exhaust could be bigger and I wouldn't mind. It is just the loud and systematic pops of the PE that bothers me. I am going to select it, just because it is expected to be and because I rather have it for when I feal the need to just show off than not having it

My wife also has back problems. Do you feel that if you had the confort seats would be better? I drove cars hardr than this in sport+ so I was surprised. But yeah, still a bit harsh for people more sensitive

Wolfman

Funny thing is that it is the backfires that people what want so it's part of the package Engineered that way. I think the E63 sounds good in either mode while the M5 or RS7 miss the mark. They sound fake or off pitch.
Re. the comfort seats; they are more comfortable and offer the massage function and dynamic bolsters but the performance seats hold you much better in place. I like the look of the performance seats better (see pic). But I strongly recommend sitting in the passenger seat during an extended test drive. The experience as a passenger is quite different and you may hate of how one feels. My wife liked the performance seats better even though it is firmer.

P2IMSA

Wolfman

tonecas

yep, i tried the performance seats. they looked great and give a good support. but i find them a bit harsh after sometime in it with sport+. they lack the additional cushion of the comfort seats. and to my wife it was too much.

i understand people wanting the pops but my issue with them is that they are too loud and out of sync with the engine/exhaust sound. they always seem to me to be to too artificial, popping just because. you look at a Lambo and it pops but they are at the engine pitch and revs. it seems more natural, more complete. the AMG sound is more grave, deep and the engine seems it is going at lower revs so when the pops come they are too above the rest of the engine sound. probably my issue, but it looks to me too much "in your face", and I can't stop recalling those tuning guys that make loud noises mods on their cheap cars :/

Wolfman

I understand your preference, but that doesn't align with what AMG is doing. The E63s is a "in your face car"; it is not a sleeper. For that you will be better served with an M5. There is no dual personality like the M5. It is aggressively styled, with a very firm suspension, loud in any mode and fast. No matter if you select Comfort or Race mode. The exhaust is considered the best sounding of any performance sedan and that includes the backfires. Sorry. But there is nothing artificial about it.

But you can't compare a high revving mid-engined car like the Lambo to a turbo engine. That makes little sense.

In short, it sounds like the E63s with comfort seats and standard exhaust is your best option. I would strongly recommend trying the new M5 as well. The suspension will be much softer and the exhaust may fit your need needs better (even thought the engine sounds are pumped in via speakers) and it's wicked fast when fully dialed to performance.

tonecas

i see your point. i recognize that I'm in a minority and it is part of the AMG essence this more aggressive/exaggerated sound.
I tried the M5. and the Porche Panamera Turbo S Hybrid. i liked them a lot but AMG is more a passionate car and suits better my needs.

again, i'm not complaining on the standard exhaust sound of the AMG. it is simply beautiful. it gives more of a feeling of NA engine. i would like the PE option to give more noise and rumble, and even pops BUT at the right time and AT the right pitch. that is what i find annoying. but i know the majority likes this.
the Lambo was just an example of what the AMG character i believe is going after. they don't perfect it (*at my eyes/ears*) because it seems to be an AMG thing. a differentiating touch if you will, probably coming from previous versions/history. The reality is I'm not familiarized with Mercedes/AMG cars. I never like MB until the last few years when they start showing more stylish and dynamic cars. That is when i started paying more attention to them. My preference has always been on BMW and Porsche.

anyway, i decided to put the damn thing. it is better to have it than don't.

Wolfman

tonecas

Yeah, correct I'm in Portugal.