Germancar1

You have simply just talked yourself out of the E53, because clearly this about it not being sportier than the E450 is complete nonsense. You don't have to go to such lengths to justify buying the E450 as to pretend the E53 isn't a sportier car, it reads really ridiculously.

M

teksurv

It seems to me that the simplest advice still applies. Go drive them, see what puts a smile on your face and fits your budget. You can't really lose with any.

nycebo

In fairness, 2012 merc amg indicated that the 450 was sporty enough; not that the e53 wasn't sportier. Alas, at these levels of performance, the gains per dollar are asymmetric and non-linear. You surely admit that you're not getting value for money, though perhaps 0.5 seconds faster for money. That's all.

For my part, when I want speed and handling, I buy a sports car, not a bloated sedan masquerading as a track car.

Germancar1

I'd say read further back. Clearly he's trying to say that the E450 with bigger tires will be the same thing and that is utter nonsense. Or an E450 with a tune. I'm not trying to tell anyone what car is the better value or which car is better or which one to have, only that that they are different and some tune or bigger tires on an E450 is NOT the same thing. It's not just speed and handling it's just more speed and handling vs the E450, not some track car, we know that.

M

nycebo

@Germancar1 that's fair. I checked on MB's site and they clearly describe the AMG to have an "Adaptive, self-leveling 4-wheel multilink AMG Adaptive Sport Suspension" while the E450 has a "4-wheel independent, 4-link front/5-arm multilink rear". I have to imagine that the former is much tauter and more stable through corners. But again, as a peacemaker, I really can't comment on the difference and maybe earlier comments were suggesting that the E450 wasn't as "unsporty" as AMG owners think. Further, the 0-60 times are 0.5 secs apart (both pretty fast and much faster than I expected) and the peak torque is close with the E450 reaching it even lower down (but haven't seen the bands so who knows). But what the hell do I know? I drive a WAGON! ;-)

Anyway, back on topic, I think the OP was being downsold because the residuals on AMGs are pretty low and maybe the salesperson was looking out for them. Now, if one were to buy a used beast. That's a totally different value proposition. Indeed, I'd be curious to know what sticker and resale was on 2012 Merc AMG's old wagon.

petee1997

It's about .04 cents a pound.

fabbrisd1

If you love your E450 - then by all means enjoy it !

There are solid reasons to "move up" to a E53 - one very good one for those that have driven the car - the "I6" engine combined with the "Hybrid" tech is the E53 makes it's the smoothest powertrain you have EVER experience in a AMG - literally "pull's" so super smooth - with the "Hybrid" providing instant RPM matching to the shift - a wet dream so to speak - add to that the "mystical turbo lag" - gone - which was RPM matching effect anyway - the "Hybrid" in the drivetrain and turbo does so much to move to the next level of sophistication.

I had a very/very good long term customer - over $1M in the past 4yrs - and frankly a real great guy - and NOT a fool - took delivery on my 1st CLS450 - of course loved it - and when the CLS53 "unexpectedly" was released 3 weeks later (which we didn't expect till January) - we went for drive in the CLS53 on arrival - and YES - he traded up to the AMG - which in this particular case was about MSRP $7K more - since the CLS450 we started with was very well equipped (as a 450 should be).

We told his wife that the CLS450 was a "3-week loaner" waiting for the 53 to arrive - and she bought off on that cover.

YES - AMG's - and ultra-luxury over $100K are two segments where leases are expensive - relative to market competitive market leases for $40K-$70K mainstream models.

Wolfman

What an odd discussion...

It's one thing to discuss a non-AMG to an AMG model as these cars will be ride differently, will be harsher with less comforts and louder and cost more. The E53 will be softer than the E63 and all of this is by design. People that buy AMG's look for these differences. The AMG buyer demographic is also a bit different. Higher price, higher depreciation. This will be a preferential decision.

As to the V6 vs the I6 discussion, it is quite simple; the I6 engine is better in any way. While the V6 is a fine engine, there is not a single advantage it possesses, including reliability. Apart from the tech on this particular engine, inline sixes have advantages and Mercedes has decades experience building these. These particular engines have also been in service for a while; they are just new to the US. Engines are also MB's core strength; there is very little inherent risk vs. other brands.

People should just buy what the prefer based on all of the attributes of the car but the E450 and the E53 are not really natural picks to compare. I'd say a E450 vs. a CLS450 or a E300 for less

lkfoster

I don't remember the exact amount, but when I spec'd an E450 against a similarly spec'd E53 the price difference was only around $2-3k. The better driving dynamics was worth that much to the American wife. Not to mention the shouty exhaust that she needed to have to prove that her car is more manly than my Volvo.

rustybear3

Eh, it comes down to whether or not you want to spend the extra $10,000 for a AMG car. As to which one is better is purely subjective. IMO, the differences aren't great enough to spend the extra money. I prefer the more comfortable ride of the E450, while others like that stiff, sporty feeling and exhaust sound....that's all it really comes down to. Plus, I've got better ways to spend that ten grand.

petee1997

Ikfoster is right. There is little difference in price between a 450 and a 53 if they are equally equipped. The base price of the 53 includes many standard features that are optional in the 450. In Canada the difference is approximately 5K for a comparatively equipped CLS 450 to a CLS53. Keep in mind these cars are more similar than the E450 and E53. The CLS both have I-6 engines with EQ 48 volt system. That said the E450 will have the same propulsion system next year. That will take to 390hp, 369 HP plus 21HP EQ boost.

nycebo

I did a quick build at MB USA for the E450 Sedan and the E53 Sedan. I tried to make the options identical. Take a look below and see if I succeeded. Consequently, the difference in price is $74,950 (E450) vs $83,340 (E53) for a delta of $8,390. Throw in the brutal residual on the AMG and I suspect that it's a not insignificant adjustment to monthly pricing on a lease. Worth it to some, not to others. YMMV. By the way, this conversation pretty awesome. We're all pretty passionate and at least we're not arguing politics!

Here are the builds and please forgive the cr@p formatting but MB's site doesn't have a nice printout option:

E450
MSRP
$59,950*
Exterior
Color:Selenite Grey metallic
Wheels:19-inch AMG twin 5-spoke w/black accents
$2,820
Packages
AMG Line Exterior w/ Night Package
Gloss Black exterior accents
18-inch AMG 5-spoke wheels w/black accents
Sport brake system
$800
Exterior Lighting Package
LED Intelligent Light System headlamps
Adaptive Highbeam Assist
$800
Interior
Upholstery:Black Nappa leather
Trim:Natural Grain Black Ash wood
$2,900
Entertainment & Convenience
$6,090
Key Standard Features

Power front seats with memory
Remote Start via Mercedes me connect Mobile App
64-color LED ambient lighting
40/20/40 split-folding rear seats
Power-folding side mirrors
KEYLESS-START
Illuminated entry system
HomeLink garage door opener
12.3-inch high-resolution central display
Analog gauges with high-resolution multifunction display
COMAND system with touchpad controller
3-spoke steering wheel with Touch Control Buttons
COMAND navigation
No-charge online navigation map updates for 3 years
Voice control
FrontBass system
Hands-free Bluetooth interface
Bluetooth audio streaming
Dual USB audio ports
HD Radio receiver
Dual-zone automatic climate control
Packages
Premium Package
SiriusXM Radio with 6-month All Access trial
Burmester Surround Sound system
HANDS-FREE ACCESS
Heated front seats
Electronic trunk closer
KEYLESS-GO
Inductive wireless charging with NFC pairing
Blind Spot Assist
$3,150
Options
SiriusXM Radio with 6-month All Access trial

– –
Acoustic Comfort Package

$1,100
Head-Up Display

$990
12.3-inch digital instrument cluster

$850
Performance & Safety
$3,190
Key Standard Features

2.0L inline-4 turbo engine
3.0L V6 biturbo engine
ECO Start/Stop system
4MATIC all-wheel drive
9G-TRONIC automatic transmission
DYNAMIC SELECT
ESP Dynamic Cornering Assist
Car-to-X Communication
Active Brake Assist
Mercedes-Benz Emergency Call Service
ATTENTION ASSIST
Rearview camera
LED Daytime Running Lamps
LED headlamps and taillamps
Crosswind Assist
PRE-SAFE
PRE-SAFE Sound
9-way air bag protection
Adaptive braking technology
SmartKey with KEYLESS-START
Rain-sensing windshield wipers
Packages
Parking Assistance Package
Active Parking Assist
Surround View System
Rear Cross-Traffic Alert
$1,290
Options
AIR BODY CONTROL

$1,900
Blind Spot Assist

– –
Total Build
$74,950*

----------------------------------------------------------------------

AMG E53
MSRP
$72,550*
Exterior
Color:Selenite Grey metallic
Wheels:19-inch AMG twin 5-spoke w/black accents
$2,170
Interior
Upholstery:Black Nappa leather
Trim:Natural Grain Black Ash wood
$2,990
Entertainment & Convenience
$2,090
Key Standard Features

Power front seats with memory
Remote Start via Mercedes me connect Mobile App
64-color LED ambient lighting
40/20/40 split-folding rear seats
Power-folding side mirrors
Illuminated entry system
HomeLink garage door opener
12.3-inch digital instrument cluster
COMAND system with touchpad controller
3-spoke steering wheel with Touch Control Buttons
COMAND navigation
No-charge online navigation map updates for 3 years
FrontBass system
Hands-free Bluetooth interface
Bluetooth audio streaming
Dual USB audio ports
HD Radio receiver
Dual-zone automatic climate control
Heated front seats
KEYLESS-GO
Electronic trunk closer
HANDS-FREE ACCESS
Burmester Surround Sound system
Inductive wireless charging with NFC pairing
SiriusXM Radio with 6-month All Access trial
Enhanced voice control
12.3-inch high-resolution central display
Options
Acoustic Comfort Package

$1,100
Head-Up Display

$990
Performance & Safety
$3,540
Key Standard Features

ECO Start/Stop system
ESP Dynamic Cornering Assist
Car-to-X Communication
Active Brake Assist
Mercedes-Benz Emergency Call Service
ATTENTION ASSIST
Rearview camera
LED Daytime Running Lamps
LED headlamps and taillamps
Crosswind Assist
PRE-SAFE
PRE-SAFE Sound
9-way air bag protection
Adaptive braking technology
SmartKey with KEYLESS-START
Rain-sensing windshield wipers
AMG-enhanced 3.0L inline-6 biturbo engine with EQ Boost
EQ Boost Integrated Starter-Generator
AMG Performance 4MATIC+ all-wheel drive
AMG SPEEDSHIFT TCT 9G transmission
AMG DYNAMIC SELECT
AMG Sport Suspension based on AIR BODY CONTROL
Blind Spot Assist
Active Parking Assist
Packages
Driver Assistance Package
Active Distance Assist DISTRONIC
Active Steering Assist
Evasive Steering Assist
Active Blind Spot Assist
Active Lane Keeping Assist
Active Lane Change Assist
Active Brake Assist with Cross-Traffic Function
Congestion Emergency Braking
Active Emergency Stop Assist
Active Speed Limit Assist
PRE-SAFE Impulse Side
PRE-SAFE PLUS
Route-based Speed Adaptation
Extended Restart in Stop-and-Go Traffic
$2,250
Parking Assistance Package
Active Parking Assist
Surround View System
Rear Cross-Traffic Alert
$1,290
Total Build
$83,340*

ua549

You didn't configure 19" wheels on the E450 yet you upgraded the E53 wheels. I found a $7,600 difference between base models with only upgrades to the E450 to match E53 standard features.

nycebo

Damn, I did. I wonder if clicking the night package over-wrote it. I just test and it does. I had picked the 19" wheels first, then the black package, which defaulted it back to 18".

Okay, reduce the delta by $500 to $7,890 to account for the 19" wheel upgrade to the E450. Getting closer. Anyone see anything else?

Anyway, I was lucky not to have this discussion because they don't make an E53 Wagon!

SoCalRick

The 19" wheels are part of the base package for the E53. It looks like there is an additional charge of $2,170 on the build sheet (or am I reading it wrong?).

nycebo

For the nappa leather in both cars.

SoCalRick

The napa leather option on the E53 is $2,990 (the cost listed below the $2,170 on the build sheet)

threeMBs

MSRP price difference between E53 and similarly equipped E450 is about $7K. When I speced E53 with about the same options as my recently (thanks to "2012 merc amg", and just like him I was also raped on my trade) purchased E450 with MSRP of $80K, I came up with just over $87K.

But MSRP is only half a story. Factored in real transaction price ("2012 merc amg" got 12.5% off on a $80K loaded wagon, while I got a bit better 13.5% off on a $80K loaded sedan) vs. MSRP (at least for now) or very close to it for E53, then the difference when loaded comes to about $17K. Add tax and you're looking at $18K+. That is a significant difference.

While I did not drive E53 (they were not available two weeks ago for me to drive), I did test drive both E43 and E450 (at least 30 minutes each), and found E450 in S+ about on par acceleration wise to E43 in S, while being much more compliant on the roads. Yes handling in E43 was superior, but at least for me not at a cost of real world use on the road.

2012 merc amg

Sorry people if I sounded over aggressive in this thread. I just don't want to see people make the same mistake I made as it basically cost me around 30 grand after taxes and all in one year. I ordered a E63 AMG Wagon without driving it at the time as they were not available, but I was coming from a 2012 E63 AMG wagon that I had 5 years that I really liked. I found the 2018 E63 AMG just not comfortable at all to drive at least for the type of driving I do. Yes it performed amazing and handled well, but it was just not the car for me. It was very in your face and brittle and a very rough ride. I am super happy with both my new E450 both Cabriolet and Wagon and just wish I'd gone with a E400 Wagon from the start a year and a half ago instead of the e63 AMG and saved a lot of $$$. I did find the E53 AMG stiff and brittle also, I guess that is just the nature of AMG's. For those who like that feeling fine, have at it. I like my smooth and comfortable E450's. I do feel the performance on these E450's is amazing and if I were to get a S class Sedan I would not hesitate to get the S450 instead of the S560 with the 8 and save 10 grand. I think this twin turbo 3.0 motor is a great motor. No complaints. I've taken the same corners at high speeds I use to take in my AMG wagon and really can't tell too much of difference, at real extremes maybe a little bit more body roll on the 450's.

nycebo

Sorry for delay. Had to rebuild. You are correct on the napa cost. The $2170 is the following (incl. night package since I did that on the E450...trying to price like I would buy/bought):

nycebo

I didn't even want to get into the dealer discount debate, but I can aver what you've written. For a moment of insanity, I was negotiating to buy an E63S wagon and the dealer had almost no room to move...maybe like $1k or so. Curiously, and like the OP (see we did circle back to it), my sales guy (whom I've purchased from before) very arduously steered me away from the E63S AMG. I finally came to my senses and got the E450 wagon. It is class.

Germancar1

They actually do make a E53 Wagon, we just don't get it in the U.S. I think it would be a perfect addition to their U.S. lineup.

M

nycebo

Thank Goodness!!!!!!! So far, I have been able to be an impartial participant on this thread!

threeMBs

For a full disclosure it is prudent to mention that such deep discount is probably unlikely on a straight purchase (without a quality trade-in). The fact that it took place on the last day of a month also played some part. The bottom line is the real world (and not just MSRP) out the door price difference of E450 vs. E53, when "equally" or comparable equipped, is still significant.

2012 merc amg

For me it was not even a question of price, it was I just liked the E450 better and did not want the complexity of the E53. The other factor was I liked the color choices and int combos a lot better on the E450. With my Cabriolet I wanted all light colors with everything, that was not possible with the E53 Cabriolet.

Check out this video, the 100 to 200 kph time is not that impressive for the E53 AMG. I can't seem to find any quarter mile times on the net for the E53 as of now but if you extrapolate from this video the car is doing 175 Kph at about the 12.5 second mark and thats 109 mph. From this video you can assume around a 13 second quarter mile time. I will say one thing about the E53 AMG that I really do like, the exhaust sound is pretty awesome, I wouldn't mind my E450 sounding like this car at all. In general, my E450 is fairly quiet. I may end doing some exhaust mods.
As far as discounts go, yes the trades definitely have something to do with it. I traded in my S550 and they only gave me 45K for that car and then retailed it for 59K, it probably cost the dealer around 5K to certify the car but the car was not on their website long so I suspect they made at least 7 or 8 grand on my trade. Other than that I probably woulda only got around 4 or 5 grand off the sticker of the E450 Wagon instead of 10 grand.

Anyhow, when I do get my Tune done on my E450 Cabriolet I will meet anyone with a E53 AMG at Bradenton Fl. Dragway and we will see. Pretty sure my E450 Tuned will beat a stock E53 AMG in the quarter mile. It may be a long time if ever there are any tunes available for the E53 AMG's. I dunno if the tuning companies are gonna want to put all the extra R and D into a tune for these cars as there are not gonna be a lot of them out there and the tuning dynamics might get pretty complex with this car. I still think the handling of my E450 Cabriolet with the AMG line will be right up there with the E53 AMG.

I know cars well and have driven a lot of them and I've already taken some very high speed corners in my E450 Cabriolet AMG line and the car sticks to the road like glue with very little body roll. It is very well balanced and in the corners has a nice and light and agile feeling to it. You could really feel the extra weight on my E63 amg and it was not a very gratifying feeling in sharp bends.

This was the last factor for me. I really do like RWD better and my E450 AMG line Cabriolet is RWD, to me RWD drive just feels better in corners, call me old school. The E53 amg is not available in RWD only AWD. My E450 AMG line Cabriolet is pretty well heavily optioned other than not having AWD, it had a 84.5K sticker price. I was lucky to get this car for 80K as the allocations on these E450s as with the E53 AMGs to dealers is very limited, at least here in sunny Fla.