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When my 08 was still under the CPO warranty I had a problem with coolant loss, but not that rapid. I had to add a cup or two every couple of weeks. The dealer pressure tested and although it didn't fail the pressure test, they eventually decided to open the engine up after it kept losing coolant without any obvious leaks. The service advisor told me that early X164s had an issue with coolant leaks in the head. I couldn't quite follow his explanation of the fix, but it sounded like a cooling passage in the head was sealed or blocked off. Since I wasn't paying, I didn't press for details.
If you're losing coolant and you don't see it externally, you must have some kind of internal leak. There are test strips you can use to test the coolant for combustion gasses too. Good luck.
When my 08 was still under the CPO warranty I had a problem with coolant loss, but not that rapid. I had to add a cup or two every couple of weeks. The dealer pressure tested and although it didn't fail the pressure test, they eventually decided to open the engine up after it kept losing coolant without any obvious leaks. The service advisor told me that early X164s had an issue with coolant leaks in the head. I couldn't quite follow his explanation of the fix, but
it sounded like a cooling passage in the head was sealed or blocked off
. Since I wasn't paying, I didn't press for details. If you're losing coolant and you don't see it externally, you must have some kind of internal leak. There are test strips you can use to test the coolant for combustion gasses too. Good luck.
Whoa.Too bad alx doesn't come around anymore. I assume he'd be able to give a little more back story on this.
Welp. I'd still be determined to get to the root cause, so I'm pretty sure I would do as much diagnostics as possible, and then probably pull the heads. Timing alignment is not trivial but it's not the end of the world.
But here is another concern: If in fact there is some blockage, there would have been created hot spots, which could have damaged the head &/or block. In that case, even if the motor tests fine, it might have a short life ahead of it.
The symptoms sound rather severe for a gasket leak that is not showing any other external signs, such as coolant vapor blowing out the exhaust, catalytic converters screaming for mercy, misfires ... so maybe it is blockage first and potentially a gasket leak second.
If you put in a donor motor, you will probably have to transfer the front SAM over. I believe it is the thing with aluminum heat fins perched on top of the intake manifold - the thing the rat crapped on in the other guy's post. You would also unfortunately need to confirm the interchangeability of the X164 motors; it is possible that electrical connections changed over time. I doubt other connections changed, such as the fuel line, but you would want to be sure. I would emphatically not consider a 550 motor, let alone one from a X166.
It sounds like our friend has gone through an insane amount of grief already, so I am hardly in a position to preach, but: As you noticed earlier, the coolant sticks around when you don't pressurize the system. Leave the cap loose. A normally running motor, not being pushed hard, doesn't need pressurized coolant - remember, 90C is below the boiling point of water, let alone coolant. You might get some evaporation and have to top up the coolant, but you should be able to get more use out of the truck before you do the major mechanical.
If your coolant overflow problem gets worse with the cap off, that points to blockage - because the pressurizing raises the boiling point, so the coolant-starved area will boil later. If better, that points to head gasket.
thanks man. I wish I could somehow get some pressure in there and a piece of cloth or rubber or something come out and everything is fixed. doesn't seem like that's that case. I haven't bought a swap yet, but I will still need a manual showing the removal process so I can make sure I have enough time in the show with life im gonna rent. if its something that can be done in a day with power tools then im game if not im gonna have to reserve for two days.
anyone got a PDF for removing the engine out a GL450??
[QUOTE=eric_in_sd;8258521]Whoa.Too bad alx doesn't come around anymore. I assume he'd be able to give a little more back story on this.
I got curious and dug through my thick folder of receipts to see what was done. It looks like the heads were replaced. I'm not sure what the sleeve installation refers too. There's only 1 sleeve on the parts list, and I can't imagine MB would have a tech sleeve cylinders rather than just replace the motor if there had been some kind of issue with the cylinder walls. I would have pressed for more information if I thought I was keeping it beyond the warranty. The original plan was to dump it once the warranty ran out, but it is still hanging around many years later. That extended warranty was one of the better investments I've made. I also discovered I got a free radiator and PS pump I had forgotten about as well as a free rack, trans rebuild and a bunch of smaller things along the way. One strange thing I found was that the coolant reservoir was replaced, but wasn't covered under warranty for some reason, I just replaced it for the second time a few weeks ago.
Gheez. Thats a lot of work done. I wish I had an extended warranty. Even though about signing up for Carshield but I don't think the cover my issue. None of their warranties covers engines under failed gaskets. only internal mechanical/lubricated parts.
If you did a chemical test and the color changed, you have a failing or failed headgasket!
Hang on a sec. It ain't that simple. See the follow-up: "Crankcase porous".
If I were gambling with a monstrous repair, I would do a proportional amount of diagnostic work. I would try to answer the question why there appears to be combustion gases in the coolant but not coolant in the exhaust, not coolant in the oil. It could be that's a dead end, and the coolant chemical test is infallible, but I would feel pretty stupid pulling a good crankcase when a gasket repair could have done the trick, or changing the head gasket to find out the problem lies lower down.
I'm just sharing my philosophy, my perspective, so take it for what it's worth.
I got curious and dug through my thick folder of receipts to see what was done. It looks like the heads were replaced. I'm not sure what the sleeve installation refers too. There's only 1 sleeve on the parts list, and I can't imagine MB would have a tech sleeve cylinders rather than just replace the motor if there had been some kind of issue with the cylinder walls. I would have pressed for more information if I thought I was keeping it beyond the warranty. The original plan was to dump it once the warranty ran out, but it is still hanging around many years later. That extended warranty was one of the better investments I've made. I also discovered I got a free radiator and PS pump I had forgotten about as well as a free rack, trans rebuild and a bunch of smaller things along the way. One strange thing I found was that the coolant reservoir was replaced, but wasn't covered under warranty for some reason, I just replaced it for the second time a few weeks ago.
I literally pushed my jaw back up when I was reading that. Whiskey tango foxtrot! Is it possible to push a sleeve down with the piston in place? They didn't pull the pan, or oil would have been listed in the parts list.
And "porous crankcase"?!? I have a hard time imagining MB does not have casting procedures firmly under control. (Side note: Driving through Oakland there used to be a building with a slogan on the side: "STOP CASTING POROSITY". I always wondered.) Could it be a crack developed, per Mr. Nemesis's speculation?
Thick folder - lol, I bought mine used, still under warranty. I went to the dealership where it had been maintained and asked for printouts of the service history. At 30k miles it was not a thin stack of paper.
About the only reason I kept it was my gf, who had bought it, sold it to me at a decent price when we parted ways. Years later, here it is. Poetic.
Originally Posted by nemesis1483
Gheez. Thats a lot of work done. I wish I had an extended warranty. Even though about signing up for Carshield but I don't think the cover my issue. None of their warranties covers engines under failed gaskets. only internal mechanical/lubricated parts.
Never, ever get a third party warranty. CPO, the manufacturer has deep pockets and will honor it pretty much just like a new car warranty. Third party guys - you will fight tooth and nail to get a dime out of them. I had a Saturn that blew up from oil starvation. It turned out they have a problem with oil consumption. Oil light never came on. Warranty place told me it was my fault for not checking the oil every fuel stop. If you had bought an ext warranty you would simply be that much further behind.
So first of all, I'd try running it with the cap loose. Like I said, a modest combustion gas leak should burp out. That will buy you some time. Try watching the coolant with the cap off while it's idling; if this idea works, you should see gases bubbling up and out the expansion tank.
Since you're looking at swapping the motor, or other major surgery, why not try some Stop Leak? Leave the motor idling so the combustion pressures are minimal, and the cap on, so the coolant pressure pushes the sealant into whatever gap you're struggling with. If you can figure out which cylinder has the leak, disconnect the fuel injector to that cylinder and remove the spark plug. The motor will go into limp mode but should still idle. It's probably not a long term fix, but it buys you more time. After a little while of use, if the fix works, you would want to drain the coolant and replace. It's ghetto, but - my biggest mistake was being a prima donna rather than simply doing what works. $1600 to change the intake manifold when I could have figured out a workaround; $900 to pay someone else to change the rear shocks; $250 to pay someone else to change the tranny fluid (and they very well may have not done it right) ... you get the picture. Be resourceful, not perfect.
You'll want some time to find a good donor motor, and to figure out exactly how to do the swap.
I've always wondered what all the repairs in that thick file I had done under the warranty would have cost out of pocket. I'm guessing upwards of $15-20K given that both the engine and trans were apart (some internal parts were replaced there due to what the service adviser described as hard use from the original owner), plus a bunch of smaller (front shocks, rack, PS pump, radiator etc.) repairs. I wondered about the crankcase porosity comment too. The service adviser only mentioned the head as leaking so I wonder if the tech just meant internal leakage on the writeup. I haven't had any issues 160K miles later, so whatever was fixed did the trick. Fortunately the rate of repairs slowed down after the warranty ran out or it would be long gone. Other than the front shocks failing repeatedly (although the last set has been good for 2+ years to my and Arnott's relief), repairs have been pretty typical for a high mileage vehicle, and ownership costs have been reasonable.
I've always wondered what all the repairs in that thick file I had done under the warranty would have cost out of pocket. I'm guessing upwards of $15-20K given that both the engine and trans were apart (some internal parts were replaced there due to what the service adviser described as hard use from the original owner), plus a bunch of smaller (front shocks, rack, PS pump, radiator etc.) repairs. I wondered about the crankcase porosity comment too. The service adviser only mentioned the head as leaking so I wonder if the tech just meant internal leakage on the writeup. I haven't had any issues 160K miles later, so whatever was fixed did the trick. Fortunately the rate of repairs slowed down after the warranty ran out or it would be long gone. Other than the front shocks failing repeatedly (although the last set has been good for 2+ years to my and Arnott's relief), repairs have been pretty typical for a high mileage vehicle, and ownership costs have been reasonable.
Yeah, you got your money's worth out of that one. If you don't mind, how much did you pay for the GL, and how many miles and years did it have?
that's funny. I did all that on my first GL 450. The flop on the intake manifold broke. replace it with a metal one. did front and rear shocks even when the solenoid on tranny went out I did that myself too. in case you wondering what happened, got a call On my way! to work that my grandfather who raised me had passed. totally zoned out and rear ended someone. insurance said it would cost more than 9k to replace front bumper, left front fender and left headlight. I turned at the last minute and clipped the car in front of me. so they totaled it.
I been looking for donors for the last week. I just need WIS or some instructions on how to drop the engine.
Yeah, you got your money's worth out of that one. If you don't mind, how much did you pay for the GL, and how many miles and years did it have?
I think I paid $54K with the longest available CPO warranty extension in 2010. 37K miles at purchase. Still have it with 212K now. Most of the big problems happened in the first 40K of ownership.
Hang on a sec. It ain't that simple. See the follow-up: "Crankcase porous".
If I were gambling with a monstrous repair, I would do a proportional amount of diagnostic work. I would try to answer the question why there appears to be combustion gases in the coolant but not coolant in the exhaust, not coolant in the oil. It could be that's a dead end, and the coolant chemical test is infallible, but I would feel pretty stupid pulling a good crankcase when a gasket repair could have done the trick, or changing the head gasket to find out the problem lies lower down.
I'm just sharing my philosophy, my perspective, so take it for what it's worth.
the porous crankcase is not OP’s motor.
my .5$ says OPs car was smashed in the front, ran hot for a long time due to a leaky radiator and then developed a head gasket failure or a warped head and ended up in honest Abe’s used car lot.
Although I think a warped head would manifest itself with way worse symptoms than this.
I think I paid $54K with the longest available CPO warranty extension in 2010. 37K miles at purchase. Still have it with 212K now. Most of the big problems happened in the first 40K of ownership.
For comparison, we paid $34K, 33K miles at purchase ('07 purchased in '10), so had 7K miles original warranty remaining. I'd say you did pretty well. It isn't the cost as much as the phenomenal amount of stress averted.
what do yawl think for this as a donor (LINK BELOW)? Do anyone know if you take off the front end (bumper, radiator and everything) would the engine come out with a cherry picker from the front instead of dropping it with the subframe.
I dunno, man, I'd try to figure out if a '12 is compatible first. Shoot for one with lower mileage. 134k is no spring chicken.
And do a band-aid to hold you over. Seems to me if you're going to go to all that trouble you ought to get one that really seems great - hold out for that.
I bet there isn't a whole lot of room underneath if you don't have it up on a lift. I don't know how you'd get it high enough. You'd need at least two feet, probably three.
To add- Took my 2010 GL550 with 129k into the dealership due to the heater NOT blowing warm air under 2000 RPM. After 2000 RPM the heat was blowing hot.
Low coolant light was on, kept adding coolant. Heater blower motor was running perfect.
It should be noted I had a coolant flush at my local MB dealership 3 months ago.
Today I get this from the dealership..... $821.89 to replace the pump thats evidently connected to the overflow tank? What am I missing?
To add- Took my 2010 GL550 with 129k into the dealership due to the heater NOT blowing warm air under 2000 RPM. After 2000 RPM the heat was blowing hot.
Low coolant light was on, kept adding coolant. Heater blower motor was running perfect.
It should be noted I had a coolant flush at my local MB dealership 3 months ago.
Today I get this from the dealership..... $821.89 to replace the pump thats evidently connected to the overflow tank? What am I missing?
You’re not missing anything. MB dealers are egregious overchargers.
Where is this heater circulation pump located? I'm a DIYer and if I can't tackle it, I have friends in low and high places.
Today, The my MB dealership advised there's also a crack in my coolant overflow tank. Back in the day a little JB Weld would fix that.
Thanks in advance..
-Chris from St Louis
Coolant overflow tank should be easy if you are good with DIY.
The circulation pump on the 166 platform is behind the front left headlamp and forward of the front left tire behind the wheel well liner. I would start there and see if smallish diameter coolant hoses lead in that direction. Another suggestion is to identify and trace all smallish diameter coolant hoses underhood. Small in this case means approx 1.5” in outside diameter.
yep. that's what I mean. engine came. got cherry picker. gonna put it up on jack stands to do all the underneath work. but I still needs WIS or info on if it will come out the top. getting the old one out. swapping all the new damm parts I put on the old engine and getting the new one in. and finally today I put a trailer on it to go pick up the new engine and guess what. it overheated. three time. unless I was on the highway it shot up to 120. SMH
UPDATE. The head gasket was blown. all the milky stuff was under the intake manifold. and when I took off the transmission plug to unbolt the torque converter HOLY $H!T. Anyways I think it would have been a fairly easy process if I didn't follow the stupid WIS manual. all the BS it said to disconnect was unnecessary. Long story short, 4 jack stands. front tires off for clearance. Disconnect electrical connectors, transmission and power steering lines. take off bumper, radiator. hook up cherry picker. Disconnect headers, transmission and last the engine mounts and WALA. Easy day.
I swapped it with a used one from eBay. the only thing that sucked with putting it back together and taking it off was the manifold bolts were rusted on and I had to extract two of them. plus lining them back up was sucked and getting the screws to tighten
01-28-2021, 05:51 PM
