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Hello All,
I have been getting the P0016 on my GL450 (216k+ miles) for the past 3 weeks. I have tried clearing the codes but it comes back after a while.
I also notice a rattle once I start up the car on a colder day, but it goes away after a while.
I haven't personally noticed any significant changes in performance.
The engine # does fall within the range of cars with affected "idler gear", but I'm not not sure if that's even related.
Would gladly appreciate any input/help.
Thanks much!
iA MA
Last edited by Isentropic; 03-13-2021 at 04:55 PM.
Definitely related. It’s that; or a stretched timing chain, worn guides or overtraveled tensioner.
got the same rattle for about a second after cold start on my 07 with 205k and a lot of random cels lately (that are centered on the intake flaps being stuck) and am not worried.
Definitely related. It’s that; or a stretched timing chain, worn guides or overtraveled tensioner.
got the same rattle for about a second after cold start on my 07 with 205k and a lot of random cels lately (that are centered on the intake flaps being stuck) and am not worried.
Thank you very much, I really appreciate it. I also hope the CEL goes away.
Thanks very much. I just had all 4 camshaft solenoids replaced yesterday and the CEL cleared. After accelerating hard, the P0016 CEL shows up again...
I am debating whether to take it in to the M-B dealer.
Any further input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks very much.
I read that the solenoid / magnets / whatever those things actually are do not fix anything; they just widen the window. Eventually the sprockets wear or the timing chain stretch or whatever it is causes the cam timing to exceed the spec window, and the errors commence. I suspect this is a reason to avoid high rpms and to keep on top of the oil filtration. Just my speculation. Also I believe the situation is not critical; just clear the errors and maybe put some tape over the CEL.
Hey man, 216k on an affected range idler gear ain't bad! IIRC most of these failed catastrophically at around 70-80k.
But as Eric says, it could be that the range is even outside that of the wider range newer sensors and that the CELs will continue until something mechanical happens.
Just don't rev the snot out of it and be ready to drop in a known good GL550 motor when this one grenades?
I'd be interested in seeing what the dealer repair estimate would be just out of curiosity; and what path they recommend taking when updated camshaft sensors have already been installed.
You might get lucky or you might get offended.
I read that the solenoid / magnets / whatever those things actually are do not fix anything; they just widen the window. Eventually the sprockets wear or the timing chain stretch or whatever it is causes the cam timing to exceed the spec window, and the errors commence. I suspect this is a reason to avoid high rpms and to keep on top of the oil filtration. Just my speculation. Also I believe the situation is not critical; just clear the errors and maybe put some tape over the CEL.
Interesting. I'm at about the same mileage as the OP and have replaced two of the cam sensors for the third time, and the interval between change 2 and 3 was fairly short (probably 40Kish miles). I also have a faint metallic rattling sound that can be heard in the cabin, but not under the hood so I've never been able to determine exactly where it originates. I'm outside the range, but maybe my idler gear is worn. Based on past history of major problems, if it does fail, it will be on a Friday evening just before a planned weekend trip.
Thanks for the feedback. I just brought the vehicle back from the M-B dealer after the diagnosis.
For the main issue which I went in for, he found that: .P0522, 0942, 1208
-Timing chain stretched
-Intake camshaft retarded
Requires entire engine to be taken apart, replace timing chain and chain drive. He also unearthed some other issues with the catalytic converters and intake manifold flap sticking, which all likely contributed to the CEL.
The service advisor was very honest/frank: he suggested to just keep driving the car instead of spending thousands of $$$ to fix it, and until it just breaks down. He said some other customers also decided to not fix it, and just drive it until it breaks. He suggested not to put in a GL550 motor inside, as components may not always align correctly in real-life.
In hindsight, I should have held off on replacing the camshaft solenoids, and saved several hundred dollars; oh well, we all learn from mistakes. What I learned is that sometimes it is wise to go first to the official M-B dealer to at least get a diagnosis, before spending $$$ on throwing parts. Unfortunately my STAR dx tool broke earlier last year...
Thanks everyone for the input; I really appreciate it. Diagnosis from the dealer
Last edited by Isentropic; 03-26-2021 at 05:28 PM.
Interesting. I'm at about the same mileage as the OP and have replaced two of the cam sensors for the third time, and the interval between change 2 and 3 was fairly short (probably 40Kish miles). I also have a faint metallic rattling sound that can be heard in the cabin, but not under the hood so I've never been able to determine exactly where it originates. I'm outside the range, but maybe my idler gear is worn. Based on past history of major problems, if it does fail, it will be on a Friday evening just before a planned weekend trip.
Are you in the VIN range for the idler gear issue?
I was getting cam timing errors on the intake side at ~90K miles. I just got a stray exhaust cam timing error, which I'm not super keen on messing with because those magnets are harder to replace. I had no idea they might need multiple replacement.
In hindsight, I should have held off on replacing the camshaft solenoids, and saved several hundred dollars; oh well, we all learn from mistakes. What I learned is that sometimes it is wise to go first to the official M-B dealer to at least get a diagnosis, before spending $$$ on throwing parts. Unfortunately my STAR dx tool broke earlier last year...
Thanks everyone for the input; I really appreciate it.
Don't be too hard on yourself. First of all, the magnet replacement should reduce the incidence of the pesky CEL errors. Second, the dealership is often a terrible source of advice. For example, I paid a bundle to have the intake manifold replaced, when it turned out I really should have done more diagnosis, as it might have been just the little arm on the outside, and one can just stick the tumble flap in one position.
I've seen Max recommend a 550 engine a bunch of times; I wouldn't put in anything different from what was in there originally, and I'm a little leery of oversized anything. The 450 is a fine motor and I for one don't hanker for moar powerr. But that's just me.
Yeah yeah the 550 drop in is a while you’re in there kinda thing...nothing wrong with the base m273e47 either. If you can source a good known m273 variant from an x164, who cares what it is.
wrt the tumble flaps - I have previously recommended to rotate it fully clockwise and forget about it - and those pesky cels have come back!
This time I am rolling with my pivot fully counterclockwise and so far no cels.
I am glad to see the forthright response your SA gave you. Drive it into grenade town and then reassess.
Thanks for the feedback. I just brought the vehicle back from the M-B dealer after the diagnosis.
For the main issue which I went in for, he found that: .P0522, 0942, 1208
-Timing chain stretched
-Intake camshaft retarded
Requires entire engine to be taken apart, replace timing chain and chain drive. He also unearthed some other issues with the catalytic converters and intake manifold flap sticking, which all likely contributed to the CEL.
The service advisor was very honest/frank: he suggested to just keep driving the car instead of spending thousands of $$$ to fix it, and until it just breaks down. He said some other customers also decided to not fix it, and just drive it until it breaks. He suggested not to put in a GL550 motor inside, as components may not always align correctly in real-life.
In hindsight, I should have held off on replacing the camshaft solenoids, and saved several hundred dollars; oh well, we all learn from mistakes. What I learned is that sometimes it is wise to go first to the official M-B dealer to at least get a diagnosis, before spending $$$ on throwing parts. Unfortunately my STAR dx tool broke earlier last year...
Thanks everyone for the input; I really appreciate it. Diagnosis from the dealer
I'm over 250k and have the same issues. It's had them for over 50k and still running. I'm outside of the range of affected idler gears but still......
Are you in the VIN range for the idler gear issue?
I was getting cam timing errors on the intake side at ~90K miles. I just got a stray exhaust cam timing error, which I'm not super keen on messing with because those magnets are harder to replace. I had no idea they might need multiple replacement.
I'm not in the range for bad gears, but do have 214K miles, so it or other timing chain related stuff may just be worn out/stretched. I thought the theory that new sensors were more tolerant of cam timing being off was interesting, since two of the four (on the intake cams) started throwing error codes so quickly. Somewhat of a moot point because I'll just move on to another vehicle before spending the amount of money and time needed to replace the timing chains and related parts if something is starting to fail. The only question would be if I drive it until something goes bang or get $5K out of it beforehand. Is there anything you can look at on a MBII to see Cam Timing? I've seen it done with the real MB diagnostic tools from videos with the M157 motor that have many valvetrain issues.
Yea, das will report cam phasing.
edit: sorry, mbII is not das.
The critical difference between MBII and DAS (and the better Autel units) is the bidirectional ability. MBII is able to query a lot of stuff. I'm tempted to poke around the menus to see if it reads cam timing.
The critical difference between MBII and DAS (and the better Autel units) is the bidirectional ability. MBII is able to query a lot of stuff. I'm tempted to poke around the menus to see if it reads cam timing.
I'm pretty sure it does, IIRC I saw it in the V8 section > live data stream when I was poking around for something else.
03-13-2021, 04:49 PM
