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NOTE: if you aren't aware, the only reason this simple procedure is "difficult" or daunting is because the fluid fill hole is also the fluid drain hole. Picture if you had to do your oil changes by filling the oil through the drain hole and you're almost on the right track. The Mercedes drain procedure is to remove the drain plug and let some fluid out. When the fluid stops, use a punch to remove the internal plastic fill tube to remove the remainder of the fluid before removing the pan. The fill process (once you've installed the updated GREEN internal fill plug) is the crazy part. the NEWEST Guidance from Mercedes is to drain the Torque Converter (which should be simple on the X164). You pump the full 9L of BLUE transmission fluid through the drain hole and then idle the engine (with the fill tube attached and plug removed) to get the transmission up to 113* F at which point you turn off the engine and let the "excess" fluid drain out.
I've got a fair amount of DIY experience with a variety of cars. I owned a 1994 Saab Aero for about 12yrs and 150K miles and did 95% of services. I also play with Miatas and have done an engine conversion, suspension swaps, etc. Even on this truck, I've already replaced all air struts, performed the swirl motor resistor mod, replaced the engine air filters, and did a DPF service. I did this entire job in my driveway with the truck suspension fully raised. There was *barely* enough room for me to access all the drains and replace the pan.
1. I used a Transmission service pan upgrade kit from FCP Euro which includes the updated pan, new rubber pan gasket, updated internal fluid filter, the 6 special Aluminum oil pan stretch bolts, and the GREEN internal fill tube. My issue with the FCP kit is that (after I did deeper research) that now Mercedes recommends draining the Torque Converter which requires additional trans fluid AND the special Torque Converter drain plug (really I think you could just use a fresh copper drain plug washer and be fine). I wish they'd have included the TC drain plug and added the extra fluid to comply with current Mercedes expectations. I'm also frustrated the recent research shows that even Mercedes has moved to Blue fluid on all 722.9 transmission update services. As a result I had 8Q of Red fluid and no place in town (on a Tuesday afternoon) was selling more red fluid of the same specification - so I solved it by buying 9Q from the Mercedes dealer and an eye watering $250.
1a. Draining the torque converter is painfully simple. The drain plug is a 4mm hex screw. There is a rubber access panel in the bottom of the bell housing that allows significant access to the TC drain plug. There's up to 4Q of oil in there, so it makes sense to fully drain everything while you're there. If the drain plug isn't in plain view, you need to use a (27mm socket??) on the crankshaft bolt to rotate the engine. TO give you an idea of how easy that is, I had my 14yr old rotate the crank while I looked for the bolt underneath.
2. for doing this job next time, I'd recommend just purchasing this $14 fill adapter that screws into the transmission drain hole as it will significantly assist in controlling the overflow draining process.
3. Although I made a fluid pump from a garden sprayer for another project with brake fluid in my Saab, this time I used a $7 Fluid Transfer Pump from Harbor Freight that worked flawlessly (with the exception for when I tried to force the last tablespoon of fluid out with a very hard pump and it blew the hose off the output nipple and sprayed a tablespoon or two of fluid everywhere). I simply force threaded the thick flexible (high heat) plastic tubing into the drain plug hole. It worked flawlessly even while the truck was idling up to 113*. I'm still not quite happy with the "just let it drain out" instructions as the transmission is claimed to be sensitive to fluid level. Ultimately, I "think" I've got 9.5Q in there.
4. While on the one hand, I grow to really enjoy the Mercedes products, that admiration is matched by an equal frustration that a majority of critical features to help you diagnose or activate diagnostics require the expensive STAR computer - which I think is about $1200. I am using an
which is practically a waste of money for the features that you cannot access. There's a minor possibility that I am not good at using the tool, but you can't do things like force a DPF regeneration, adjust air suspension, or MOST importantly for this service, you cannot access the transmission oil temperature (UPDATE: 6/25/2021 - Thanks to acsavage for pointing out that this option is within the iCarsoft II with real time monitoring under both Oil Level Check and Torque Converter Lockup Clutch). Many DIY people say you can use an infrared thermometer aimed at the oil pan to measure the trans fluid temp, while at the same time pikers across every Mercedes board on the Internet will tell you they aren't accurate or there "could" be a temperature drop between the actual fluid temp and the oil pan. To those pikers, I say blah. Metal is a heat transfer material. Until they can show me a test where fluid pumping through a steel pan is a different temperature than the pan, they can stuff it.
5. The reason I'd recommend buying the $15 oil pan drain tube is because when you perform the final part of this service, you are draining out the excess fluid. Personally, I don't like draining brand new $25/q fluid into the trash, so not only would the fill tube provide a positive connection to the drain hole, it would also allow you to direct the overflow into a Qt bottle.
To recap:
It's a straightforward service for a DIY
Buy the upgraded pan kit + 10Q of the BLUE fluid + the TC drain plug
Buy the $13 drain plug fill tube
A $7 Harbor Freight fluid pump works extremely well
Last edited by Diamond Dave; 07-06-2021 at 12:38 PM.
Thanks for the tips! Helpful to see feedback on a procedure which I think is more time consuming than complicated. I'm yet to do mine and have been considering letting the dealer perform it. I'vd figured I'd save around $200 Canadian and maybe spend 3 hrs if I did it myself.
A couple of thoughts. On MB II, you don't have the option to make adapatations/changes to values like you would with STAR or Launch, or other bidirectional MB oriented tools/scanners. With iCarSoft, you an only read/look.
On the fluid being clean when draining excess, I would not consider it clean any longer. There are small remnants of the old fluid in the oil cooler, unless you're flushing it too, so as soon as the new fluid and old fluid mix, the fluid is contaminated. At $25 I would catch the excess as well, but would not mix with new unused fluid.
Agree with you that the kits should include all necessary bits amd pieces. Otherwise it's just inconvenient for the customer to chase down parts while in the middle of the job.
On the fluid being clean when draining excess, I would not consider it clean any longer. There are small remnants of the old fluid in the oil cooler, unless you're flushing it too, so as soon as the new fluid and old fluid mix, the fluid is contaminated. At $25 I would catch the excess as well, but would not mix with new unused fluid.
Oh jeez, it's not like arsenic in drinking water. I don't know what the exact difference between the fluids is, but they are both still just oil.
Remember that the generally accepted protocol is to do partial fluid changes more often, rather than complete flushes, particularly if there has been an unknown interval since the last fluid change.
For anyone spluttering, "But but but Daddy Daimler knows best", remember that MB was the company that made it a "lifetime" fluid, specifying one change at 40k miles. Frankly I would ignore their mandate to switch to the new fluid, and ignore the full flush mandate. Drop the pan, change the filter, replace with fresh fluid every 30k miles.
Clean (and dry! - the motivation for removing the dipstick was to reduce moisture penetration into the fluid) the transmission pan and oil catch pan, and you can definitely save the overflow fluid for later.
It's a fine transmission - it was given the nod by the guy that rebuilt mine - but there is no magic fairy dust inside.
I made an oil filler using a 2-liter soda bottle, compressed air, and a bit of 1/8 ID tubing.
Last edited by eric_in_sd; 04-10-2021 at 02:30 PM.
Did this for the second time, last year. Now it does not seem to be as complicated as I first thought. Just a little more time consuming than changing engine oil.
Honestly it's terribly tempting to overcomplicate.
1. Drain, drop the pan, clean and dry the pan, replace the overflow tube, change the filter, put the pan back up. If you're willing to let fluid dump everywhere, skip the step of knocking aside the old overflow tube. Clean and dry your oil catch pan.
2. Push in fluid till it overflows. Start the motor. Push in more fluid till it overflows. Replace the drain plug finger tight.
3. Run the motor til the transmission fluid temp reaches spec. Open the drain plug. Let excess fluid drain out. Replace drain plug, torqued to spec.
4. Decant the overflowed fluid into bottles for use in next fill. Or discard - the stuff ain't that valuable.
I had intially decided to let the dealer do the tranny service, but with the pandemic I haven't been able to get there. I ordered the kit for the transmission and will do the diffs and transfer case one if these days. Considering I don't know what's in the tranny now, but likely MB fluid and I have Fuchs ATF, a flush will be on the menu. And a shorter interval before the next change.
The tough part I suspect will be removing the steel belly guards to expose the tranny pan and transfer case.
C230 Sport Coup + 2006 W164 ML350 + 99 Ford Escort (What the heck, it gets 38 mpg!)
You didn't mention what vehicle you were working on.
I hope you realize the green pipe and blue fluid are only for
vehicles with A89 option code 'Low Friction".
It's an entirely new transmission the 7Gtronic "PLUS "
The crossover occurs in the middle of June 2010 and you won't know
what you've got without checking 1st on a site such as
datamb.com .
I was told by the dealer that you cannot switch up the fluid OR the filter.
The newer filter is better, but it is NOT according to the mechanics at the dealer in Medford OR,
closest to me, they are not compatible with the older version Non-Plus transmission.
Next time you need fluid, look online for your nearest Shell distributor. You may be able to score a case of
Approved ATF134 for around 60 bucks if they'll sell to you.
One last comment, you shouldn't have needed a new pan.
The only time the pan needs to be replaced if it's damaged or
a very early 7 speed vehicle production Feb 2004 or earlier and serial transmission serial prior to # 024198 Star Bulletin S-B-27.56/83
Here's the beveled pan.
A couple things (I just did this job a month or so ago.)
1. On the torque converter bolt. It's a 4mm hex bolt and they suggest replacing it. That's because the new ones come pre-impregnated with thread sealant. You don't need to buy a new one (although it's cheap), you can just put a drop of Loctite blue on the threads before you re-install it.
2. Also, in order to get that torque converter bolt out, it requires (I believe) a 4 mm hex tool. If you only have short hex sockets, they won't work because there is a support bar in the way. You need either a long hex socket, or a long hex with a handle. See photo, so you have the right tool when you do the job.
A couple things (I just did this job a month or so ago.)
1. On the torque converter bolt. It's a 4mm hex bolt and they suggest replacing it. That's because the new ones come pre-impregnated with thread sealant. You don't need to buy a new one (although it's cheap), you can just put a drop of Loctite blue on the threads before you re-install it.
2. Also, in order to get that torque converter bolt out, it requires (I believe) a 4 mm hex tool. If you only have short hex sockets, they won't work because there is a support bar in the way. You need either a long hex socket, or a long hex with a handle. See photo, so you have the right tool when you do the job.
Do you think a 1/4 inch socket/extension will navigate through the obstacles?
No, it's the socket thickness that is the problem, not the extension thickness. You could use an old school allen key if you have one, but I always worry about stripping the bolt head in these situations.
i'm going to doing this service on my 2011 GL550 Soon, since my Stealership wants $750+ for the job
So far this is my Part List hopefully its correct. From using the Datamb.com it came back with Code A89 for my SUV.
Please Correct me if i'm wrong or missing an item..
thanks
i'm going to doing this service on my 2011 GL550 Soon, since my Stealership wants $750+ for the job
So far this is my Part List hopefully its correct. From using the Datamb.com it came back with Code A89 for my SUV.
Please Correct me if i'm wrong or missing an item..
thanks
That seems pricy! If you can find a deal elsewhere, they might match it, who knows. Re: parts, make sure the drain plugs come with crush washers. Also you will need some way of pumping the new ATF fluid in the transmission. A manual pump or a Motive pump would be useful. A manual pump is around $10. It would just take longer using one. Some have rigger up creative home engineered devices to do this, too.
Edit: you have 10L of ATF. Assuming you're doing the transfer case and it's single speed (no offroad package, option code 430 on the data sheet) you'll need .5L for it, so you'll be fine. If you have the 430 option code, then your two speed transfer case will take 1.5L.
That seems pricy! If you can find a deal elsewhere, they might match it, who knows. Re: parts, make sure the drain plugs come with crush washers. Also you will need some way of pumping the new ATF fluid in the transmission. A manual pump or a Motive pump would be useful. A manual pump is around $10. It would just take longer using one. Some have rigger up creative home engineered devices to do this, too.
Edit: you have 10L of ATF. Assuming you're doing the transfer case and it's single speed (no offroad package, option code 430 on the data sheet) you'll need .5L for it, so you'll be fine. If you have the 430 option code, then your two speed transfer case will take 1.5L.
the tools I have pump etc.. I replaced my transfer case fluid back in 2017 and I used ATF 4134 (red)...
i'm hoping that when I drain the transmission the fluid comes out blue and not red like the earlier models
the tools I have pump etc.. I replaced my transfer case fluid back in 2017 and I used ATF 4134 (red)...
i'm hoping that when I drain the transmission the fluid comes out blue and not red like the earlier models
You should have the same colour in the transmission and transfer case, no? I thought so.
IIRC the cut off date was 18 June 2010. Builds before that date used red fluid, and after that date used blue (low friction). Check your data card, that should take the guesswork out.
If you're not sure what fluid was used, take a white paper towel and unwind the drain plug just enough to get to few drops out on it. Tighten the plug quickly and apply correct torque if it's not the fluid you expect and have the other colour on hand. I would not worry too much about the crush washer leaking after. You can bring the transmission temp up to normal operating and see if you are losing any fluid from the plug.
In a pinch I've reused crush washers before and they did fine. Just can't keep reusing the same one all the time. Or maybe one could, but I've not tried.
You should have the same colour in the transmission and transfer case, no? I thought so.
IIRC the cut off date was 18 June 2010. Builds before that date used red fluid, and after that date used blue (low friction). Check your data card, that should take the guesswork out.
If you're not sure what fluid was used, take a white paper towel and unwind the drain plug just enough to get to few drops out on it. Tighten the plug quickly and apply correct torque if it's not the fluid you expect and have the other colour on hand. I would not worry too much about the crush washer leaking after. You can bring the transmission temp up to normal operating and see if you are losing any fluid from the plug.
In a pinch I've reused crush washers before and they did fine. Just can't keep reusing the same one all the time. Or maybe one could, but I've not tried.
I tell ya, people are over-thinking this big time. Oh noes, gotta change to teh new improved fluid. Oh noes, gotta change teh pan. And fill tube. Oh noes, gotta drain teh torque converter.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
You can reuse copper crush washers. They are hardened by the crushing, though, so you have to anneal them. Heat with a blow torch to red, then let cool slowly. Polish off the corrosion from the heating. More work than the washer is worth, but if you ain't got a new one, better than trying to crush a work hardened copper washer.
In most cases, to be fair, with a smooth surface mating to a smooth surface, it will still hold back oil just fine. You can always monitor it for leaks.
I tell ya, people are over-thinking this big time. Oh noes, gotta change to teh new improved fluid. Oh noes, gotta change teh pan. And fill tube. Oh noes, gotta drain teh torque converter.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
You can reuse copper crush washers. They are hardened by the crushing, though, so you have to anneal them. Heat with a blow torch to red, then let cool slowly. Polish off the corrosion from the heating. More work than the washer is worth, but if you ain't got a new one, better than trying to crush a work hardened copper washer.
In most cases, to be fair, with a smooth surface mating to a smooth surface, it will still hold back oil just fine. You can always monitor it for leaks.
Some of this stuff is convenience, like the crush washers or the pump, IMHO. I'd rather push the fluid in than squeeze one 1L bottle at a time, to save time and more importantly effort. With the undercovers that need to come off to get the transmission and transfer case exposed, I'd rather not have to deal with leaks from either. Plus I'd be topping off fluids after fixing the leaks and that means more time under car. The older I get, the more I prefer being in the car, not under it. I mean I enjoy getting the work done, but there's gotta be a balance. If I'm spending disproportionate time working on the car than driving it, I'm not doing it right or it's not the right car for me. Luckily, so far she's been good to me and I'm grateful I didn't stumble on a specimen which needs constant attention from every angle.
Some of this stuff is convenience, like the crush washers or the pump, IMHO. I'd rather push the fluid in than squeeze one 1L bottle at a time, to save time and more importantly effort. With the undercovers that need to come off to get the transmission and transfer case exposed, I'd rather not have to deal with leaks from either. Plus I'd be topping off fluids after fixing the leaks and that means more time under car. The older I get, the more I prefer being in the car, not under it. I mean I enjoy getting the work done, but there's gotta be a balance. If I'm spending disproportionate time working on the car than driving it, I'm not doing it right or it's not the right car for me. Luckily, so far she's been good to me and I'm grateful I didn't stumble on a specimen which needs constant attention from every angle.
Of course. Best to just get a new crush washer. But if you ain't got one, you can likely reuse it just fine, and if you want to be safe, anneal it and polish the crud off.
Everyone should have an air compressor, and I found the soda bottle / 1/8" tube very easy to work with. Of course that means you have to buy a bottle of soda from Globopedo Inc, but maybe you can find an empty or get a store brand.
You didn't mention what vehicle you were working on.
I hope you realize the green pipe and blue fluid are only for
vehicles with A89 option code 'Low Friction".
It's an entirely new transmission the 7Gtronic "PLUS "
The crossover occurs in the middle of June 2010 and you won't know
what you've got without checking 1st on a site such as
datamb.com .
I was told by the dealer that you cannot switch up the fluid OR the filter.
The newer filter is better, but it is NOT according to the mechanics at the dealer in Medford OR,
closest to me, they are not compatible with the older version Non-Plus transmission.
Next time you need fluid, look online for your nearest Shell distributor. You may be able to score a case of
Approved ATF134 for around 60 bucks if they'll sell to you.
One last comment, you shouldn't have needed a new pan.
The only time the pan needs to be replaced if it's damaged or
a very early 7 speed vehicle production Feb 2004 or earlier and serial transmission serial prior to # 024198 Star Bulletin S-B-27.56/83
Here's the beveled pan.
This is interesting because I'm doing the fluid change now on our 09 w211. And I went with the upgraded pan/filter that FCP Euro recommended and assured me would work on our 09'.
It comes with red fluid. I did notice the pan is slightly deeper than what I have. However the green fill tube is shorter than the white one that was in my shallower pan. Now I'm wondering if I should be using the green fill tube or the white one since the white one is slightly taller?
However, this process isn't too bad. I've drained the TC and about 4qts of brown fluid came out. It was NOT red... I'm at around 60k miles and I can only assume the prior owner did not change fluid. So I am glad I am doing it honestly. It doesn't smell burnt but it's defintely brown and dirty. But with your comment above now I'm worried using the newer filter is going to mess things up with the red fluid and transmission. I can't imagine FCP Euro selling anything that they aren't backing. IE: Why would they sell this upgraded kit with the red fluid, if it wasn't compatible?
I'm going to put everything together here now.
EDIT: I will note with my above question is that the green overflow tube is MATCHED to the newer design of the oil pan. Do not switch using white/green tubes on different pans.
-Nigel
Last edited by NewShockerGuy; 10-18-2021 at 03:04 PM.
4. While on the one hand, I grow to really enjoy the Mercedes products, that admiration is matched by an equal frustration that a majority of critical features to help you diagnose or activate diagnostics require the expensive STAR computer - which I think is about $1200. I am using an iCarsoft MBII which is practically a waste of money for the features that you cannot access. There's a minor possibility that I am not good at using the tool, but you can't do things like force a DPF regeneration, adjust air suspension, or MOST importantly for this service, you cannot access the transmission oil temperature.
While I appreciate the write-up, that's not true, at least for my 08 x164. I have the iCarsoftII, and used it to change my '08 GL450 transmission fluid a few months ago, and also check the temp while driving for the first few times thereafter to confirm it was right. It does have the real-time trans temperature.
While I appreciate the write-up, that's not true, at least for my 08 x164. I have the iCarsoftII, and used it to change my '08 GL450 transmission fluid a few months ago, and also check the temp while driving for the first few times thereafter to confirm it was right. It does have the real-time trans temperature.
I really appreciate you posting this. I went back and looked through the menu on iCarsoft II and there are definitely 2 different fields that provide real time trans temp.
Many DIY people say you can use an infrared thermometer aimed at the oil pan to measure the trans fluid temp, while at the same time pikers across every Mercedes board on the Internet will tell you they aren't accurate or there "could" be a temperature drop between the actual fluid temp and the oil pan. To those pikers, I say blah. Metal is a heat transfer material. Until they can show me a test where fluid pumping through a steel pan is a different temperature than the pan, they can stuff it.
The temperature of the pan is likely consistent with the temperature of the fluid. The issue is the accuracy of the infrared thermometer.
First, reading the infrared is difficult to do accurately. Good thermal imaging systems cost many thousands of dollars. I own an infrared thermometer and hold no illusions that it is particularly accurate. The physics of these things is too complicated to go through here, but trust me: It's remarkably crude.
Second, the rate at which something emits infrared radiation depends on its "emissivity". Counter intuitively, shiny surfaces emit less and dark surfaces emit more. Most infrared thermometers have emissivity adjustments, but how are you going to judge what the emissivity of the pan is?
You're far better off with a contact thermometer or just using the system's internal thermometer. That said, it's probably not all that critical; you just need to make sure the pan has enough oil in it so the pump doesn't get starved when the torque converter fills. Your daddy's Oldsmobile simply had two ranges on the dipstick: COLD and HOT. It ain't as precise as MB makes it sound.
I have done 3 or 4 of these services - and 2 transmission changes where have put in a new transmission (and used the original valve body/computer - after a clean of valves/***** etc)
on both the transmission changes I also undid the oil cooler hoses and blew (carefully-low air pressure) the old oil out of the cooler as well as the TC (in both cases there was a fair bit of metal in the old filters so wanted to get as much out as possible) if you want to get rid of as much of the old oil as possible it would be good. if you have the tow pack oil cooler you cannot clean it as it only operates when HOT - but you can still get the majority of fluid out
especially if you are changing the fluid type - I have use the Fuchs 4134 titan but there are not a heap of choices in Aus
A couple things (I just did this job a month or so ago.)
1. On the torque converter bolt. It's a 4mm hex bolt and they suggest replacing it. That's because the new ones come pre-impregnated with thread sealant. You don't need to buy a new one (although it's cheap), you can just put a drop of Loctite blue on the threads before you re-install it.
2. Also, in order to get that torque converter bolt out, it requires (I believe) a 4 mm hex tool. If you only have short hex sockets, they won't work because there is a support bar in the way. You need either a long hex socket, or a long hex with a handle. See photo, so you have the right tool when you do the job.
If only I'd seen this prior to attempting this. Used option 3 with a flex head on the extension and as you predicted, was able to strip my TC bolt quite effortlessly. I may go back under and see if I can hammer a 5mm of option 1 or 2 in it to get it out, but if not, I'll just shorten the interval and leave well enough alone.
04-06-2021, 03:56 PM
. I may go back under and see if I can hammer a 5mm of option 1 or 2 in it to get it out, but if not, I'll just shorten the interval and leave well enough alone.
