M157 AMG63 ENGINE FAILURE
#1
M157 AMG63 ENGINE FAILURE
I just had a engine failure (locked) on Tuesday, and awaiting what happened
14 days ago I took my car for the MB dealership service in North NJ to fix the vacuum door lock, and inspect the transmission that was a bit jerky on low speed. They did a 5mls road test, but was unable to find anything. Instead they fixed the door lock, also did the recall (2018070015 and replaced the dipstick of active curve system). The dealer also recommended to;
1. Change the transfer case input shaft seal (removed lower engine panels, detached drive shaft, removed cross memeber, removed transfer case and replaced input shaft seal).
2. Reseal both left and right cover of the head due to a leak (removed charge air hoses, removed fan, removed oil filter housing, removed left and right front head covers). Cleaned and resealed head covers, CAM SOLENOIDS and oil filter housing.
Total: $3,841
When I picked the car at closing time, I noticed misfire. The service guy was gone, and I stopped and restarted the car about 3-4 times after-which the misfire was gone. Thought it needed some "learning to reset". Next day another service rep called for courtesy follow up, and I mentioned the problems, and she said she will left a note to the rep for follow up, which never happened. I then drove the car about 14 days, 140mls, running normal. Got message on the morning to add 1QT of oil (maybe because of the service they did), added the oil, and headed to work, this Tuesday driving about 40-50mls/h the engine shut off itself after 30min of driving, and had the car towed to the same MB dealership.
The engine had codes for P0368, PO343, PO392, PO347 (camshaft position), and also PO106 (manifold absolute pressure).
Yesterday the rep called, and said "Bad news, the chain is not moving, and that they have to pull out the engine, which will cost $2,145 out of my pocket, so they can investigate first what is wrong". The rep stated it could be time-chain sprocket or Balance shaft went bad, that "these M157 engines are known to have those problems". Does this sound right?
I was reading about the CAM SOLENOIDS which they cleaned that
"As part of the variable valve timing (VVT) system, the camshaft adjuster solenoid is responsible for allowing oil to adequately flow through the VVT system upon it’s engagement. The VVT system engages to deliver extra power to the vehicle when it’s traveling under added stress, such as when it is carrying a larger, heavier load, or when traveling uphill. Since the solenoid is necessary in order to allow oil to lubricate the timing chain and gears, if oil cannot reach these parts then too much friction can cause them to wear out quickly. This can lead to engine failure and expensive repairs."
Could it be he miss-installed, or damage the solenoids as they took them out? The car was running fine before, but if the sprocket is damaged, they claim a poor known design from AMG, not the lubrication that might happened.
Anyone else experienced anything similar?
14 days ago I took my car for the MB dealership service in North NJ to fix the vacuum door lock, and inspect the transmission that was a bit jerky on low speed. They did a 5mls road test, but was unable to find anything. Instead they fixed the door lock, also did the recall (2018070015 and replaced the dipstick of active curve system). The dealer also recommended to;
1. Change the transfer case input shaft seal (removed lower engine panels, detached drive shaft, removed cross memeber, removed transfer case and replaced input shaft seal).
2. Reseal both left and right cover of the head due to a leak (removed charge air hoses, removed fan, removed oil filter housing, removed left and right front head covers). Cleaned and resealed head covers, CAM SOLENOIDS and oil filter housing.
Total: $3,841
When I picked the car at closing time, I noticed misfire. The service guy was gone, and I stopped and restarted the car about 3-4 times after-which the misfire was gone. Thought it needed some "learning to reset". Next day another service rep called for courtesy follow up, and I mentioned the problems, and she said she will left a note to the rep for follow up, which never happened. I then drove the car about 14 days, 140mls, running normal. Got message on the morning to add 1QT of oil (maybe because of the service they did), added the oil, and headed to work, this Tuesday driving about 40-50mls/h the engine shut off itself after 30min of driving, and had the car towed to the same MB dealership.
The engine had codes for P0368, PO343, PO392, PO347 (camshaft position), and also PO106 (manifold absolute pressure).
Yesterday the rep called, and said "Bad news, the chain is not moving, and that they have to pull out the engine, which will cost $2,145 out of my pocket, so they can investigate first what is wrong". The rep stated it could be time-chain sprocket or Balance shaft went bad, that "these M157 engines are known to have those problems". Does this sound right?
I was reading about the CAM SOLENOIDS which they cleaned that
"As part of the variable valve timing (VVT) system, the camshaft adjuster solenoid is responsible for allowing oil to adequately flow through the VVT system upon it’s engagement. The VVT system engages to deliver extra power to the vehicle when it’s traveling under added stress, such as when it is carrying a larger, heavier load, or when traveling uphill. Since the solenoid is necessary in order to allow oil to lubricate the timing chain and gears, if oil cannot reach these parts then too much friction can cause them to wear out quickly. This can lead to engine failure and expensive repairs."
Could it be he miss-installed, or damage the solenoids as they took them out? The car was running fine before, but if the sprocket is damaged, they claim a poor known design from AMG, not the lubrication that might happened.
Anyone else experienced anything similar?
#6
Sorry it's been awhile with, but here it is where we stand as of today.....
Back on May - So the MB Dealer in Morristown , NJ @MBofMorristown opened the oil pan and said the Crankshaft thrust bearing spun off, hit the timing belt, and that's why the engine locked. MB dealer do not fix any engines, they only replace them. They quoted me about $70K for e new engine, and a generous $13K refund only if my old block is repairable after it will be shipped back to Germany, so $57K out of pocket not including taxes and swap!!!
I asked the dealer if the "other way around" was possible that when they opened the Cam solenoids just about 140mls before the failure, and instead the timing chain broke, hitting the thrust bearing which is actually next to the timing chain, but they stated "no" even thou, if the cam solenoids are messed up, it can quickly break the timing chain.
(The camshaft adjuster solenoid is responsible for allowing oil to adequately flow through the VVT system upon it’s engagement. Since the solenoid is necessary in order to allow oil to lubricate the timing chain and gears, if oil cannot reach these parts then too much friction can cause them to wear out quickly. This can lead to engine failure and expensive repairs.")
I also mentioned the car was running fine when I left it there, and when picked-up it had the limp mode, notified the service and also emailed thru their website and next day notified their service courtesy follow up person that the car was in a limp mode..Once again the dealer denied, that they never received the message from the service call that was made by them and also never received a message from the service adviser or thru their website form - I say big BS @mercedesbenzusa
After all, the service rep stated that he sees these M157 AMG engine failures all the time and is very common??? - I was shocked - so that's all about hand-built AMG Engines @MercedesAMG
June-October - I towed my car to the mechanic shop that is specializing on German cars. Finally on September, they were able to pull the engine out, open it, and stated the crankshaft had small markings. We were trying first to find a new crankshaft, but Mercedes @mercedesbenzusa had none in the USA !!!, and when asking MB Germany @mercedesbenz_de , they could not even give any ETA when the crankshaft would be available !!! Nothing was ready to order. Other parts were also very difficult to get (valves, etc).
The mechanic inspected the engine, Valves were damaged a little bit, but replaced them, pistons were OK, all Crank-bearings were fine, no wear etc, only the thrust bearing that spun-off was damaged. He polished the Crankshaft were the markings were, found an over-sized bearing and put everything back - all bearing clearance were fine except #2 and #6 which have too much clearance 0.1mm where I think it should be 0.035 something. We ordered all color bearing options, but nothing will help. Crankshaft was measured, it has no wear, block is fine, now we are wondering if the engine came with this defect from the factory already causing this early failure, too much play in the crank. Project is on hold until were find out a solution for this, finding thicker bearings, used engine or sell the car without engine
....Or maybe Valteri Bottas @ValtteriBottas can send me an engine for my upcoming birthday @Jonne784
All in all, very disappointed.
Back on May - So the MB Dealer in Morristown , NJ @MBofMorristown opened the oil pan and said the Crankshaft thrust bearing spun off, hit the timing belt, and that's why the engine locked. MB dealer do not fix any engines, they only replace them. They quoted me about $70K for e new engine, and a generous $13K refund only if my old block is repairable after it will be shipped back to Germany, so $57K out of pocket not including taxes and swap!!!
I asked the dealer if the "other way around" was possible that when they opened the Cam solenoids just about 140mls before the failure, and instead the timing chain broke, hitting the thrust bearing which is actually next to the timing chain, but they stated "no" even thou, if the cam solenoids are messed up, it can quickly break the timing chain.
(The camshaft adjuster solenoid is responsible for allowing oil to adequately flow through the VVT system upon it’s engagement. Since the solenoid is necessary in order to allow oil to lubricate the timing chain and gears, if oil cannot reach these parts then too much friction can cause them to wear out quickly. This can lead to engine failure and expensive repairs.")
I also mentioned the car was running fine when I left it there, and when picked-up it had the limp mode, notified the service and also emailed thru their website and next day notified their service courtesy follow up person that the car was in a limp mode..Once again the dealer denied, that they never received the message from the service call that was made by them and also never received a message from the service adviser or thru their website form - I say big BS @mercedesbenzusa
After all, the service rep stated that he sees these M157 AMG engine failures all the time and is very common??? - I was shocked - so that's all about hand-built AMG Engines @MercedesAMG
June-October - I towed my car to the mechanic shop that is specializing on German cars. Finally on September, they were able to pull the engine out, open it, and stated the crankshaft had small markings. We were trying first to find a new crankshaft, but Mercedes @mercedesbenzusa had none in the USA !!!, and when asking MB Germany @mercedesbenz_de , they could not even give any ETA when the crankshaft would be available !!! Nothing was ready to order. Other parts were also very difficult to get (valves, etc).
The mechanic inspected the engine, Valves were damaged a little bit, but replaced them, pistons were OK, all Crank-bearings were fine, no wear etc, only the thrust bearing that spun-off was damaged. He polished the Crankshaft were the markings were, found an over-sized bearing and put everything back - all bearing clearance were fine except #2 and #6 which have too much clearance 0.1mm where I think it should be 0.035 something. We ordered all color bearing options, but nothing will help. Crankshaft was measured, it has no wear, block is fine, now we are wondering if the engine came with this defect from the factory already causing this early failure, too much play in the crank. Project is on hold until were find out a solution for this, finding thicker bearings, used engine or sell the car without engine
....Or maybe Valteri Bottas @ValtteriBottas can send me an engine for my upcoming birthday @Jonne784
All in all, very disappointed.
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#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
this is the epitome of a nightmare. i hope all is well with your situation
#11
Leaning towards buying a used engine and selling the parts that are intact from the old one.
Does anyone know if for example 2013-2015 S or E class M157 5.5L 4Matic AMG63 engine fits to the GL63 M157 engine bay - the engine mounts match? I dont know if all M157 5.5L AMG engines were exact math except the power were slightly different based on the internals? Oil pan and oil pickup swap should not be problematic and attaching transmission?
Does anyone know if for example 2013-2015 S or E class M157 5.5L 4Matic AMG63 engine fits to the GL63 M157 engine bay - the engine mounts match? I dont know if all M157 5.5L AMG engines were exact math except the power were slightly different based on the internals? Oil pan and oil pickup swap should not be problematic and attaching transmission?
#12
MB junk nowadays. Pretty much over priced disposable engines, for the price MB wants for some parts they could be made here by reputable outfits. Sure wish I could have some of these engines to work on. So what is the shop charging for that mercedes mess up?
#13
I pretty much found couple engines to swap, both are M157 5.5 engines, and my mechanic confirmed he can fit them in just using my oilpan, oil pickup tupe, oil pump, engine mounts and harness.
However now he is saying that my ECU will give problems, since the tune is slightly different in GL63 than E63S (donor engine). He is saying the engine will most likely run lean, rough and throw check engine light, and is not comfortable for the swap at all? Any tips on this?
However now he is saying that my ECU will give problems, since the tune is slightly different in GL63 than E63S (donor engine). He is saying the engine will most likely run lean, rough and throw check engine light, and is not comfortable for the swap at all? Any tips on this?
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TECHNICIAN (11-06-2019)
#15
Super Member
I pretty much found couple engines to swap, both are M157 5.5 engines, and my mechanic confirmed he can fit them in just using my oilpan, oil pickup tupe, oil pump, engine mounts and harness.
However now he is saying that my ECU will give problems, since the tune is slightly different in GL63 than E63S (donor engine). He is saying the engine will most likely run lean, rough and throw check engine light, and is not comfortable for the swap at all? Any tips on this?
However now he is saying that my ECU will give problems, since the tune is slightly different in GL63 than E63S (donor engine). He is saying the engine will most likely run lean, rough and throw check engine light, and is not comfortable for the swap at all? Any tips on this?