View Poll Results: Has anyone had this same type of problem?
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll
48-volt battery
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,391
Likes: 1,040
From: Boise
2024 GMC Canyon Denali..... 2018 Audi SQ5
Now, I’m new at this like everyone else but I did talk to the head mechanic at the dealership and he confirmed when the car is running, the generator charges the 48V battery and the 12V AGM battery together. He said if you put a battery charger on the charging posts it will place a charge on the AGM through the converter and charge the 48v lithium lion battery too. I’m now trying to find out if a special charger is needed.
I hope this is right because It would be very disappointing to be spending this much on a problematic system.
I hope MB gets it right in January as this is when my car goes into production.
thanks for you comments and anything else people find out would be appreciated.
Toban
I hope this is right because It would be very disappointing to be spending this much on a problematic system.
I hope MB gets it right in January as this is when my car goes into production.
thanks for you comments and anything else people find out would be appreciated.
Toban
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,016
Likes: 2,198
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
Now, I’m new at this like everyone else but I did talk to the head mechanic at the dealership and he confirmed when the car is running, the generator charges the 48V battery and the 12V AGM battery together. He said if you put a battery charger on the charging posts it will place a charge on the AGM through the converter and charge the 48v lithium lion battery too. I’m now trying to find out if a special charger is needed.
I hope this is right because It would be very disappointing to be spending this much on a problematic system.
I hope MB gets it right in January as this is when my car goes into production.
thanks for you comments and anything else people find out would be appreciated.
Toban
I hope this is right because It would be very disappointing to be spending this much on a problematic system.
I hope MB gets it right in January as this is when my car goes into production.
thanks for you comments and anything else people find out would be appreciated.
Toban
And the way the 12 system charges the 48v battery is through a separate 48-12V converter.
A special charger, or battery manager, would not be needed - you are just trying to get enough charge into the 48v battery to start the car. The onboard converter will see to that.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,016
Likes: 2,198
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
But AGM compatibility is not necessary if all you are trying to do is get enough charge THROUGH the 12v battery, INTO the 48v battery to start the car. Any charger/maintainer should do the job, as long as you don't ask it to fully charge and maintain both batteries. I doubt that it would be possible with the M-B converter in the path.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,278
Likes: 378
From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
This is the CTEK charger that I use. It's newer technology than the one M-B brands and is cheaper. CTEK is the state of the art in AGM chargers. Again, you just need a good AGM charger as the 48V lithium battery is charged indirectly.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,016
Likes: 2,198
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
The starter is 48V so if there is a problem with the 48V circuit the car can't start. If the 48V battery fails it won't take a charge so you're dead in the water. The concept of using another vehicle's (12V) battery to power the starter is not applicable, so jump-starting doesn't compute. And there's no provision for 48V-to-48V jump starting because, even if AAA had 48V available, it would be way too dangerous to both people and onboard electronics.
But you can get enough charge by connecting a 12v battery to the GLE 12v battery posts, and allowing the GLE converter to bring up the 48v charge.
It may take some time, but jumping a dead 12v battery in a 12v car always takes quite a bit of time, while the dead battery gets enough charge to spin the starter - same situation with a dead 48v battery. Follow the normal jump start procedures, connect the negative lead to a ground point distant from the battery itself, and keep the charging car running.
M-B has already planned for these situations, by providing the 12v jump start connectors under the hood, and separating the ground point from the battery.
Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 81
Likes: 22
From: Outside St Louis, MO
'20 GLE 450, Silverado 3500
Yes, CTEK makes the MB charger. Back in Oct I emailed CTEK and got the following email when I asked about a charger for the GLE 450:Hello,
There are many charger options for you including the Mercedes-Benz branded charger that is manufactured by CTEK. This charger is available through your local Mercedes dealership.
If you are interested in a CTEK branded charger, our MXS 5.0 (40-206) is designed for lead-acid and AGM batteries up to 160Ah. If your vehicle battery meets this criteria the MXS 5.0 will also work well.
For more information on our MXS 5.0, please click on the link below:
https://smartercharger.com/collectio...s/ctek-mxs-5-0
Thank you,
I figured if I was going to buy a charger, I would get one that was AGM compatible.
There are many charger options for you including the Mercedes-Benz branded charger that is manufactured by CTEK. This charger is available through your local Mercedes dealership.
If you are interested in a CTEK branded charger, our MXS 5.0 (40-206) is designed for lead-acid and AGM batteries up to 160Ah. If your vehicle battery meets this criteria the MXS 5.0 will also work well.
For more information on our MXS 5.0, please click on the link below:
https://smartercharger.com/collectio...s/ctek-mxs-5-0
Thank you,
I figured if I was going to buy a charger, I would get one that was AGM compatible.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,016
Likes: 2,198
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
As I recall this has been discussed before and a special charger was necessary. Seemed like it was more than just AGM compatible. But....if the 48 volt has an internal short or whatever keeps it from holding a charge then it might not be possible to charge it anyway. I did a search and couldn’t find the discussion that might have been about a year ago.
Same with a shorted 12 v battery.
There was this discussion in the 60's when cars went from 6v to 12v, and we all survived.
Now, there is more demand on auto electrics, and 48v is needed to drive everything.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,016
Likes: 2,198
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
Yes, CTEK makes the MB charger. Back in Oct I emailed CTEK and got the following email when I asked about a charger for the GLE 450:Hello,
There are many charger options for you including the Mercedes-Benz branded charger that is manufactured by CTEK. This charger is available through your local Mercedes dealership.
If you are interested in a CTEK branded charger, our MXS 5.0 (40-206) is designed for lead-acid and AGM batteries up to 160Ah. If your vehicle battery meets this criteria the MXS 5.0 will also work well.
For more information on our MXS 5.0, please click on the link below:
https://smartercharger.com/collectio...s/ctek-mxs-5-0
Thank you,
I figured if I was going to buy a charger, I would get one that was AGM compatible.
There are many charger options for you including the Mercedes-Benz branded charger that is manufactured by CTEK. This charger is available through your local Mercedes dealership.
If you are interested in a CTEK branded charger, our MXS 5.0 (40-206) is designed for lead-acid and AGM batteries up to 160Ah. If your vehicle battery meets this criteria the MXS 5.0 will also work well.
For more information on our MXS 5.0, please click on the link below:
https://smartercharger.com/collectio...s/ctek-mxs-5-0
Thank you,
I figured if I was going to buy a charger, I would get one that was AGM compatible.
Lithium chargers are the next step, and now there are several choices. https://www.batteryfocus.com/lithium...harger-review/
(I just did a quick search for those links - I don't endorse any of them, but I have a slew of Battery Tenders for several styles of batteries I have.)
But I doubt that any of the algorithms in any of those would "see through" to the 48v volt battery, if that's the goal.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,278
Likes: 378
From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
Correct, there would not be a clear-cut way to jump start directly form a 48v battery to the onboard 48v battery.
But you can get enough charge by connecting a 12v battery to the GLE 12v battery posts, and allowing the GLE converter to bring up the 48v charge.
It may take some time, but jumping a dead 12v battery in a 12v car always takes quite a bit of time, while the dead battery gets enough charge to spin the starter - same situation with a dead 48v battery. Follow the normal jump start procedures, connect the negative lead to a ground point distant from the battery itself, and keep the charging car running.
M-B has already planned for these situations, by providing the 12v jump start connectors under the hood, and separating the ground point from the battery.
But you can get enough charge by connecting a 12v battery to the GLE 12v battery posts, and allowing the GLE converter to bring up the 48v charge.
It may take some time, but jumping a dead 12v battery in a 12v car always takes quite a bit of time, while the dead battery gets enough charge to spin the starter - same situation with a dead 48v battery. Follow the normal jump start procedures, connect the negative lead to a ground point distant from the battery itself, and keep the charging car running.
M-B has already planned for these situations, by providing the 12v jump start connectors under the hood, and separating the ground point from the battery.
Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 81
Likes: 22
From: Outside St Louis, MO
'20 GLE 450, Silverado 3500
Gees!!! Not the goal at all. Where did you get that idea? I am talking about buying a charger for the 12V AGM battery. That will take care of the 48volt battery all else being fine.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 33
Likes: 10
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL
2020 GLE450
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 33
Likes: 10
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL
2020 GLE450
It’s just a bad batch of batteries & not an ongoing problem. This is just a very recent issue, the 48 V has been solid for the prior 18 months. I recently sold my GLE 450 after ordering a GLE 53 and completely agree with Mikapen. The fuel economy and silky smooth drive train/engine make it the best in class. If it wasn’t for the gauge showing the EQ Boost in action, you wouldn’t know it’s even there. You won’t regret buying a 450....
We have one individual continually running the Mercedes GLE down posting the same crap. His dealer wouldn’t repair an oil leak (on an older car) to his satisfaction so now he jumps at the chance to cheerlead against the brand. IMO, ignore his posts and look for facts.
Edit: There is a Mercedes me notice when the 12 volt gets low on charge but I don’t know if it’s also going to work on the 48V Lithium. Other Lithium batteries I’ve used in tools just die when discharged vs NMH that get too weak to function but still have a little power.
We have one individual continually running the Mercedes GLE down posting the same crap. His dealer wouldn’t repair an oil leak (on an older car) to his satisfaction so now he jumps at the chance to cheerlead against the brand. IMO, ignore his posts and look for facts.
Edit: There is a Mercedes me notice when the 12 volt gets low on charge but I don’t know if it’s also going to work on the 48V Lithium. Other Lithium batteries I’ve used in tools just die when discharged vs NMH that get too weak to function but still have a little power.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,016
Likes: 2,198
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
You are correct, though - placing any of the low-amp charger/maintainers and keeping the 12v battery fully charged for a longer period, SHOULD bring a healthy 48v battery back to starting capabilities. Days or hours? Does anybody know the Amp-Hr rating of the 48v battery?
I'd try a jump start first, where you get the full output of a charged battery pushing electrons to the 48v system, with the onboard GLE battery as a buffer. And wait for a while for the amps to build up.
Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 28
2021 GLE 450
This is the CTEK charger that I use. It's newer technology than the one M-B brands and is cheaper. CTEK is the state of the art in AGM chargers. Again, you just need a good AGM charger as the 48V lithium battery is charged indirectly.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Yes, CTEK makes the MB charger. Back in Oct I emailed CTEK and got the following email when I asked about a charger for the GLE 450:Hello,
There are many charger options for you including the Mercedes-Benz branded charger that is manufactured by CTEK. This charger is available through your local Mercedes dealership.
If you are interested in a CTEK branded charger, our MXS 5.0 (40-206) is designed for lead-acid and AGM batteries up to 160Ah. If your vehicle battery meets this criteria the MXS 5.0 will also work well.
For more information on our MXS 5.0, please click on the link below:
https://smartercharger.com/collectio...s/ctek-mxs-5-0
Thank you,
I figured if I was going to buy a charger, I would get one that was AGM compatible.
There are many charger options for you including the Mercedes-Benz branded charger that is manufactured by CTEK. This charger is available through your local Mercedes dealership.
If you are interested in a CTEK branded charger, our MXS 5.0 (40-206) is designed for lead-acid and AGM batteries up to 160Ah. If your vehicle battery meets this criteria the MXS 5.0 will also work well.
For more information on our MXS 5.0, please click on the link below:
https://smartercharger.com/collectio...s/ctek-mxs-5-0
Thank you,
I figured if I was going to buy a charger, I would get one that was AGM compatible.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 356
Likes: 103
2021 GLE 450
Okay, we’re getting all kinds of different signals how you can charge this 48v battery. Many people are saying you can charge the battery through the converter from the posts under the hood through the converter. Others have said the converter only works one way from 48v to 12v and not the other way around.
so, this last poster is going to let the vehicle sit for 5 months with a battery charger hooked up to the posts and the thought wax it will keep the 48V battery charged also through the converter?
so, who’s right here I wonder? I wish MB would come out with an answer or explanation?
I’m really confused now what will work and not work.
Toban
so, this last poster is going to let the vehicle sit for 5 months with a battery charger hooked up to the posts and the thought wax it will keep the 48V battery charged also through the converter?
so, who’s right here I wonder? I wish MB would come out with an answer or explanation?
I’m really confused now what will work and not work.
Toban
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 554
Likes: 146
From: USA
2021 GLE450W4 SUV
"Connect a suitable charger approved for Mercedes-Benz with sufficient charge output to the jump-start connecttion point of the 12 V battery. The 48 V battery is charged via the voltage converter in the vehicle."
Last edited by jtjbt20x; Dec 22, 2020 at 12:27 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,278
Likes: 378
From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
Okay, we’re getting all kinds of different signals how you can charge this 48v battery. Many people are saying you can charge the battery through the converter from the posts under the hood through the converter. Others have said the converter only works one way from 48v to 12v and not the other way around.
so, this last poster is going to let the vehicle sit for 5 months with a battery charger hooked up to the posts and the thought wax it will keep the 48V battery charged also through the converter?
so, who’s right here I wonder? I wish MB would come out with an answer or explanation?
I’m really confused now what will work and not work.
Toban
so, this last poster is going to let the vehicle sit for 5 months with a battery charger hooked up to the posts and the thought wax it will keep the 48V battery charged also through the converter?
so, who’s right here I wonder? I wish MB would come out with an answer or explanation?
I’m really confused now what will work and not work.
Toban
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 85
Likes: 34
various
The VW Group, BMW and FCA (including RAM trucks) all use 48v, some optional - but they are belt-driven. 48v is the future of ancillary power systems.
There is a Standard that 60V or above needs additional safety features, and 48V systems can charge at up to 52V, so the 48V batteries are the sweet spot for cost-effectiveness.
Right now, M-B is the only manufacturer using the inline starter-generator. It's the simplest and most efficient of the current (!) systems. And, as I understand, the 4:1 and 1:4 voltage conversion emit less electrical Noise that other voltages, needing less shielding.
Expect a widespread adoption of 48v systems in the near future, as fuel economy and clean air regs get tighter.
And the fuel savings are real. I have spent a month in a GLE450, two weeks in a GLE350, and own a GLC300 - the last two have the 2.0L four. Guess what - in normal driving, I get essentially the same mpg in all the above, perhaps a bit more with the GLE450. That's saying a lot, especially because I am somewhat tempted to enjoy the smooth acceleration of the straight six. I.e. bury my foot more, in the 450.
The added EQ Boost is real, and regenerative braking is smooth, probably saving brakes, and the elimination of drive belts free up significant power to the wheels.
I know that M-B had a setback, when Tesla bought M-B's main battery supplier and violated the development/supply contract that they had. The CEO of that company (can't remember its name right now) was fired when he wanted to honor the legal contract. This made me realize just how ruthless E. Musk is, and probably just how ruthless the future of electric cars and autonomous driving will become.
There is a Standard that 60V or above needs additional safety features, and 48V systems can charge at up to 52V, so the 48V batteries are the sweet spot for cost-effectiveness.
Right now, M-B is the only manufacturer using the inline starter-generator. It's the simplest and most efficient of the current (!) systems. And, as I understand, the 4:1 and 1:4 voltage conversion emit less electrical Noise that other voltages, needing less shielding.
Expect a widespread adoption of 48v systems in the near future, as fuel economy and clean air regs get tighter.
And the fuel savings are real. I have spent a month in a GLE450, two weeks in a GLE350, and own a GLC300 - the last two have the 2.0L four. Guess what - in normal driving, I get essentially the same mpg in all the above, perhaps a bit more with the GLE450. That's saying a lot, especially because I am somewhat tempted to enjoy the smooth acceleration of the straight six. I.e. bury my foot more, in the 450.
The added EQ Boost is real, and regenerative braking is smooth, probably saving brakes, and the elimination of drive belts free up significant power to the wheels.
I know that M-B had a setback, when Tesla bought M-B's main battery supplier and violated the development/supply contract that they had. The CEO of that company (can't remember its name right now) was fired when he wanted to honor the legal contract. This made me realize just how ruthless E. Musk is, and probably just how ruthless the future of electric cars and autonomous driving will become.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,016
Likes: 2,198
From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former-03 C240,2 ML BlueTecs,20 GLE450 E-ABC,15 Cayenne D,17 Macan
Banned
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 354
Likes: 122
2020 GLE 350
One of the biggest drivers for a move to 48 volt systems is the weight savings. As the ever increasing amount of electrified technology went into vehicles the load on 12 volt systems grew exponentially, requiring more, and larger conductor size, copper wire. Moving to 48 volts reduces the amount of wire and the conductor size making those wiring harnesses smaller and easier to design and install. The reduced current also results in reduced heat.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 33
Likes: 10
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL
2020 GLE450
One of the biggest drivers for a move to 48 volt systems is the weight savings. As the ever increasing amount of electrified technology went into vehicles the load on 12 volt systems grew exponentially, requiring more, and larger conductor size, copper wire. Moving to 48 volts reduces the amount of wire and the conductor size making those wiring harnesses smaller and easier to design and install. The reduced current also results in reduced heat.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,770
Likes: 1,264
From: Lake Oswego, OR
2020 GLE 450; 2023 BMW M2 Coupe
48v system
One of the biggest drivers for a move to 48 volt systems is the weight savings. As the ever increasing amount of electrified technology went into vehicles the load on 12 volt systems grew exponentially, requiring more, and larger conductor size, copper wire. Moving to 48 volts reduces the amount of wire and the conductor size making those wiring harnesses smaller and easier to design and install. The reduced current also results in reduced heat.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 33
Likes: 10
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL
2020 GLE450
While it is true wiring weight is saved, I seriously doubt it offsets the weight of the extra battery. Of course there are many other advantages which have been cited - elimination of belts, a seamless start/stop system, ability to run accessories like AC while engine is off, fuel economy, etc.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,278
Likes: 378
From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
I agree with the idea of a 48 volt system, no belts, efficiency, etc. However having been, well still going thru this 48 volt failure ordeal, I'm wondering about the reliability issue. The fact that this particular failure can render the car useless at anytime, anyplace, within seconds, which it have proven to be true, I would chose a belt if I could keep the car running at this point. If the AC goes out, or the hybrid system doesn't work, you could still drive the car to the repair shop. I'm thinking that Audi, and others who still employ a belt along with the implementation of a 48 volt system might have thought this out a little more thoroughly. My opinion.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 554
Likes: 146
From: USA
2021 GLE450W4 SUV
See post #41 above, it appears that you can jump start a 48V system as long as the battery isn't dead/defective according to the operating manual.
Last edited by jtjbt20x; Dec 23, 2020 at 02:03 PM.
