whoover

The discussion is mainly about defective batteries. You can't jump-start the engine. You can charge the 48V battery, if it's not defective, via the 12V circuit. But I'm talking about the defective battery case that started this thread. If your 12V battery has a dead cell you can get a jump-start and drive to the shop. That's not possible with a bad 48V battery. It's a reasonable concern.

MikeFLA

I beg to differ a little. While you can't start the car with a dead 48 volt battery, Most of these failures seem to be while the car is being driven, like mine was along with many others. Within seconds you find yourself on the road DEAD, and a bigger and more of a safety problem is when it fails, like some have experienced, when you are traveling at high speeds on the interstate. Once the 48 volts fails the car within 15 or 20 seconds reduces down to about 15 miles per hour at most before stopping completely. Try that on the interstate, especially if you are in the left lane. Not being able to start the car at least leaves you dead where parked. Basically the system is not designed with any back up in case of a 48 volt failure. Not advocating a belt driven system to run the car, but, it does potentially eliminate this sort of issue.

Vegas Benz

According to the dealer, my GLE 450 is scheduled to be built in the 3rd something of January "Decade Scheduled: 21/01-3" as of 12-7-2020. It's a fairly basic build with premium package and driver assist package plus some smaller options.
Are these battery defects so new that it will affect my build? I read on this forum that batteries for cars already sold (that are defective) will be available in January, but I wonder if that was for the parts supply or the manufacture supply chain?

I'm looking forward to getting my car on time, but I also hope it does not have defects. This 48 volt problem seems to be a big issue.

Some of you made comparisons to the 48 volt system in BMW & Audi as far as being able to operate in case of a battery failure. Does anyone know how a Cayenne would act if the 48 volt battery went dead or failed?

MikeFLA

Not sure about the Cayenne. MB needs to re-examine this 48 volt system and take into consideration what happens in a failure mode. I'm hoping they come up with a reliable fix for this. Right now there seems to be a reliability issue with parts and maybe the way it was designed. Who wants an 70K+ car that you can't trust to the local grocery store. I love the car, but I must admit, the reliability issue has me shaken a bit.

F18BEN

Correct... That's exactly what I got. A defective 48V battery. Thus the car is dead for over a month waiting for a shipment of batteries.

MarkerVB

I'm curious. Did they offer you a loaner while you wait?

F18BEN

Yes, But I don't need it because with whats going on we can manage with 1 car.

MikeFLA

Yes, for me a GLC 300. Not bad, but nothing I would ever purchase. Certainly NOT anywhere near the E class. Been with the loaner almost a month now. They still say the batteries are back ordered in Germany. Hopefully I'll get it back in January. More than anything I HOPE they found a fix to all these 48 volt battery and system problems.

petee1997

I have had a 19 CLS53 for two years and it’s been flawless. The GLE53 ;is now 4 months old and again, flawless.

MarkerVB

Thanks, I would have expected them to provide a loaner, and it's good they did. We are currently making do with one car, but it's kind of a hassle, so if our GLE ever comes (build date November 19, still not delivered) and has this issue, we will take the loaner. By any chance did either of you ask them to extend the original warranty by the amount of time the vehicle is out of service? If you expect to run through the warranty with mileage and not time this wouldn't be a consideration, but if not it would be a question I would be asking them.

MikeFLA

My 2020 GLE450 was flawless for 8 months, then this. Hopefully it won't happen again!

MikeFLA

Didn't think about asking for a warranty extension since I already purchased the extended warranty. I thought at the time since it is an MB new model, an extended warranty would probably be wise...looks like that was a good move!

user 7208224

You are mixing the automotive industry move to 48 volt systems with the soft hybrid system in Mercedes. I was addressing the former. Electrical distribution wiring design in an automobile is no small task. If I can come across the articles that discuss this I will post the links. It is very interesting reading and not very technical in nature.

GregW / Oregon

Gotcha.

mikapen

The "automotive industry move to 48 volt systems with the soft hybrid system in Mercedes" are one and the same. The M-B approach addresses many more facets of energy savings, air quality, as well as the additional requirements of our "modern" automotive systems. It's a "P1" hybrid system, where most other manufacturers are "P0."

The contribution of the 48v system goes beyond weight-savings, which is substantial. In addition to copper and connectors, you cannot ignore the weight savings made by eliminating the front drive pulleys and the entire nose of the engine. Nor the friction losses due to belt hysteresis, insertion losses etc. - plus the inertial costs of spinning a bunch of mass in the pulley systems.
It will be quite a while (if ever) before an entire auto is 48v. The legacy window lifts, door locks, entertainment, NAV systems, lighting, and other such low-draw bits will be around long after full-electric drive trains are "normal." 12V supplies will continue, although 12v storage batteries may be replaced by other things currently under development or yet unimagined.

The M-B 48v system is clever, and uses such things as a same-axis turbo impeller "supercharger" in the AMG version, smart water pumps, and other things that @GregW / Oregon mentions. I believe M-B also heats the catalytic converter (with 48v), as well as having a more optimal Cat placement due to the straight six engine - resulting in better/more efficient emission control.
So the M-B system reduces weight, while increasing efficiency and reducing emissions.

Addressing one aspect of the entire package (weight of electrical components in this case), while an important piece, can cause us to forget the strong contribution M-B has made to keeping the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) alive.

My hope would be that these advances allow the ICE to survive until the Regulators and the Media come to their senses and realize just how polluting, and destructive of our Planet full-electric transportation really is. And allow the best solutions to thrive in the future, without Politics.

user 7208224

AMEN to that!!!

The conversion to 48 volts has evolved over time. Diamler lead the consortium that developed the standards for the move from 12 volt systems. The new system was to be a 42 volt system! In time the emphasis of mild hybrid evolved. Here is an article that is fun reading about all of this. https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a2198/4226979/

AZ_Benz

I'm experiencing the same battery issue on a 2021 E53 AMG Coupe. Dealer has had it longer than I have as of now. No ETA on when a battery will arrive. Not fun at all.

mikapen

Does anybody have a picture of the 48V battery?
I Know that @Freddythedoc posted a YouTube video of his full hybrid version (not U.S.) at https://mbworld.org/forums/gle-class-v167/802398-mercedes-gle-350-de-lithium-battery-package.html
What is the form factor of the 48v battery in these mild hybrids?

Advanced Lithium batteries have several fail-safe mechanisms built in, to avoid damage to the battery or worse.
I wonder what failure mode may be involved in the "defective battery" problem we are talking about. Anybody know?

F18BEN

Welcome to my world....

MikeFLA

I would really like to find out. I want to believe that the "failure" problem has actually been fixed, and just not another battery installed waiting for the next failure. The reliability of this car depends on a fix.

Ron.s

Getting a picture would probably require removing the rear seats and a panel since it’s located on rear passenger side. I think Greg posted a factory drawing last year showing the location. We need someone with the Factory Service Manual to post up.
Doubt Mercedes is shipping more bad batteries just for Lability reasons if not for cost and goodwill. Probably a big reason so many orders were held up recently and other orders pushed back... IMO.

mikapen

Let's hope it was just a bad batch of batteries, not a flawed design.
I vote for a bad batch, combined with Supply constraints.

F18BEN

Did anybody ask for and receive any compensation from MB Corporate for being without you car for over a month? If so , what did they offer?

jtjbt20x

Can you Lemon Law it?

Suqicake

I think i had the same issues with the battery and the situation is not handled well by the dealer and Mercedes.
Collected the car since July 2020. Car production was in January 2020.
Since collection issues face:
1. Aircon emitting hot air. Usually set to 22 Degree Celsius. Suddenly when start a new journey the aircon blow hot air and i have to adjust to 17 Degree C below. This happen 3 times before major breakdown happen.
2. Rattling chairs noise from day 1.
3. Driver screen black out while driving but it goes back to normal the next day. 1x.

13th December is the major issue that happen, i was in a mall for dinner and when i collect my car in the car park, i saw my headlight was turned on.
i cannot start the car as the dash board showing multiple error and battery indicator. Call for for assistant but nothing can be done.
They tow back the car to the dealer and 2 days later and called me, they dont know what happened but they manage to reset it and it works now and there should not be an issue.
They claim they upgraded the software but when i check its the same version. To make the matter worst few days later my aircon start blowing hot air again.
I dont accept their explanation as i believe there is a strong issues within the car itself and paying close to US$280K for GLE450 here in the country i have every right to know what's going on.

I make a big complain to the dealer and Mercedes and the feeling i get this is not a big problem and probably not their problem.
I manage to record a video on the aircon issues as usually it will get back to normal after 1-2 days.
i have given them deadline till 29th December 2020 to give me a solution to my aircon issue and i dont accept the reason for the car to be suddenly dead.
If there are battery damage or parts damage i feel more assured rather than resetting the car and hoping it wont happen again.

Anyway the dealer has not come back to me with a solution or simple effort to resolve this except a call and explain they are looking into it and Mercedes send me an email:

"We're glad to hear from our dealership that their representative has contacted you pertaining to this matter.We would like to take this opportunity to reassure you that we will continue to offer our assistance whenever arises and thank you for your forbearance.

We wish you a happy and safe driving with Mercedes-Benz."

What a crap....
2021 .......... i am going to kick their ***.