2010 ML350 Bluetec dies while driving, limp mode
04-27-2021, 11:22 AM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
2010 ML350 Bluetec dies while driving, limp mode
Hello, looking for all the help I can get. It's like more issues pop up with this SUV after resolving others.
My 2010 ML350 Bluetec dies while driving but it starts right back up. I've noticed it does this when I try to accelerate and get some speed going. It doesn't happen all the time, and it starts up whenever it does happen. I've noticed that I can even restart it while it's rolling to a stop and put it back in drive and keep going. I don't want to keep doing this, because it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. The car is also in limp mode, not going over 3,000 rpm.
CEL is on so I've run a diagnosis but there are no "current" codes. However, I'm getting 5 stored codes:
11B800 - the control deviation during the rail pressure regulation via the quantity control valve is too high.
11B900 - the control deviation during the rail pressure regulation via the quantity control valve is too high.
11BD00 - the control deviation during the rail pressure regulation via the pressure regulator valve is too high.
11BE00 - the control deviation during the rail pressure regulation via the pressure regulator valve is too high.
16F700 - disregard this fault.
As you can see, codes 1 and 2 have the same interpretation. Codes 3 and 4 do as well.
I'm using an Autel Maxiap AP200. I ran a live data reading at idle and got these values:
Fuel temp 37°C, Coolant temp 54.5°C, Rail Pressure 332 bar, Current injected quantity 14.2mg/hub, Y74 15.7%, Y94 32.3%.
I don't know what the correct values should be, so I'm not sure where to start. However, the Y74 value was in red, while all other values were blue. I'm assuming that means something?
Some relevant history:
- I had fuel rail codes before, and I replaced the high pressure pump and fuel pressure regulator valve. Meaning I have replaced both Y94 and Y74. But they were used parts, so I'm suspecting they might be bad. However, I want to be sure there's nothing else to check before throwing more parts and money at this car. And I've heard Y74 shouldn't be changed without changing the entire fuel rail... is that true?
- I also changed the crankshaft position sensor after reading some posts on this forum about these trucks stalling out, but that didn't solve my problem.
- Also, I had a dpf code before, but after removing and cleaning the dpf, those are gone... not even stored, but gone completely.
I'm not a pro at this, so please help. I don't have a star system, so if anyone does I would appreciate any help based on what star suggests for such codes.
Thanks.
My 2010 ML350 Bluetec dies while driving but it starts right back up. I've noticed it does this when I try to accelerate and get some speed going. It doesn't happen all the time, and it starts up whenever it does happen. I've noticed that I can even restart it while it's rolling to a stop and put it back in drive and keep going. I don't want to keep doing this, because it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. The car is also in limp mode, not going over 3,000 rpm.
CEL is on so I've run a diagnosis but there are no "current" codes. However, I'm getting 5 stored codes:
11B800 - the control deviation during the rail pressure regulation via the quantity control valve is too high.
11B900 - the control deviation during the rail pressure regulation via the quantity control valve is too high.
11BD00 - the control deviation during the rail pressure regulation via the pressure regulator valve is too high.
11BE00 - the control deviation during the rail pressure regulation via the pressure regulator valve is too high.
16F700 - disregard this fault.
As you can see, codes 1 and 2 have the same interpretation. Codes 3 and 4 do as well.
I'm using an Autel Maxiap AP200. I ran a live data reading at idle and got these values:
Fuel temp 37°C, Coolant temp 54.5°C, Rail Pressure 332 bar, Current injected quantity 14.2mg/hub, Y74 15.7%, Y94 32.3%.
I don't know what the correct values should be, so I'm not sure where to start. However, the Y74 value was in red, while all other values were blue. I'm assuming that means something?
Some relevant history:
- I had fuel rail codes before, and I replaced the high pressure pump and fuel pressure regulator valve. Meaning I have replaced both Y94 and Y74. But they were used parts, so I'm suspecting they might be bad. However, I want to be sure there's nothing else to check before throwing more parts and money at this car. And I've heard Y74 shouldn't be changed without changing the entire fuel rail... is that true?
- I also changed the crankshaft position sensor after reading some posts on this forum about these trucks stalling out, but that didn't solve my problem.
- Also, I had a dpf code before, but after removing and cleaning the dpf, those are gone... not even stored, but gone completely.
I'm not a pro at this, so please help. I don't have a star system, so if anyone does I would appreciate any help based on what star suggests for such codes.
Thanks.
Last edited by SpikeJones; 04-27-2021 at 11:26 AM.
04-27-2021, 01:13 PM
#2
Senior Member
Rail pressure looks low.
Like enough to start, but not enough for running down the road (23,500 PSI roughly equals 1620 bar).
If a code shows Stored, but not Active or Current (depending on scan tool) it is historical.
At first glance/guess your used replacement HP pump doesn't seem to be getting it for you.
I believe the volume control valve is the one active during cranking (waking up the pressure is mounted to the pump) and the pressure regulator valve is the one concerned with upper limiting of pressure (loaded operation, mounted to or built into the rail).
I don't know the production cutover / year when the OM642 switched to an integrated valve on the rail, rather than replacing the valve independent of the rail. That would affect your replacement cost for this valve if it's defective.
I'm sure someone will chime in before too long.
Good luck!
Like enough to start, but not enough for running down the road (23,500 PSI roughly equals 1620 bar).
If a code shows Stored, but not Active or Current (depending on scan tool) it is historical.
At first glance/guess your used replacement HP pump doesn't seem to be getting it for you.
I believe the volume control valve is the one active during cranking (waking up the pressure is mounted to the pump) and the pressure regulator valve is the one concerned with upper limiting of pressure (loaded operation, mounted to or built into the rail).
I don't know the production cutover / year when the OM642 switched to an integrated valve on the rail, rather than replacing the valve independent of the rail. That would affect your replacement cost for this valve if it's defective.
I'm sure someone will chime in before too long.
Good luck!
04-27-2021, 01:45 PM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Rail pressure looks low.
Like enough to start, but not enough for running down the road (23,500 PSI roughly equals 1620 bar).
If a code shows Stored, but not Active or Current (depending on scan tool) it is historical.
At first glance/guess your used replacement HP pump doesn't seem to be getting it for you.
I believe the volume control valve is the one active during cranking (waking up the pressure is mounted to the pump) and the pressure regulator valve is the one concerned with upper limiting of pressure (loaded operation, mounted to or built into the rail).
I don't know the production cutover / year when the OM642 switched to an integrated valve on the rail, rather than replacing the valve independent of the rail. That would affect your replacement cost for this valve if it's defective.
I'm sure someone will chime in before too long.
Good luck!
Like enough to start, but not enough for running down the road (23,500 PSI roughly equals 1620 bar).
If a code shows Stored, but not Active or Current (depending on scan tool) it is historical.
At first glance/guess your used replacement HP pump doesn't seem to be getting it for you.
I believe the volume control valve is the one active during cranking (waking up the pressure is mounted to the pump) and the pressure regulator valve is the one concerned with upper limiting of pressure (loaded operation, mounted to or built into the rail).
I don't know the production cutover / year when the OM642 switched to an integrated valve on the rail, rather than replacing the valve independent of the rail. That would affect your replacement cost for this valve if it's defective.
I'm sure someone will chime in before too long.
Good luck!
I'm thinking along the same lines as you are. However, if the rail pressure is low, why am I getting codes for pressure being too high? That's what is getting me stumped.
I'm going to replace the hp pump with the one that was removed and then scan again to get the values and proceed from there. I wish there was a way to test the hp pump individually without having to take it out.
What do you think about the Y74's value? Does it seem off? That's the fuel pressure regulator that's at the front of the left fuel rail. It comes off and several vendors sell it separate from the rail... that's what has me wondering if it's just a myth that it has to come with the rail. Really hoping that isn't the case.
04-28-2021, 01:38 AM
#4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Just a quick update:
After going over the freeze frame of the live data at idle, I noticed my scanner actually tells me what the correct values of each component should be, which might come in handy for someone here in the future. It gives a range of acceptable values, and according to that range:
- the rail pressure should be between 303 and 343 bar. Mine is at 323 so that's good.
- the Y94 quantity control valve on the high pressure pump should be between 24 and 34 percent. Mine is at 32.8 percent so that's good.
- however, the Y74 pressure control valve should be between 17 and 24 percent. Mine is below that range at 15.7 percent.
- the fuel temp should be between 8 and 40°C. Mine is at 39°C, which is terriblterribly to the max temp but within range and so I'm not sure if to be concerned about that.
I'm going to start with switching out the Y74 with my old one to see if the values adjust. And if it does, hopefully it fixes the issue.
Does anyone know how to do a hands-on, eye test on the fuel pressure control valve?
After going over the freeze frame of the live data at idle, I noticed my scanner actually tells me what the correct values of each component should be, which might come in handy for someone here in the future. It gives a range of acceptable values, and according to that range:
- the rail pressure should be between 303 and 343 bar. Mine is at 323 so that's good.
- the Y94 quantity control valve on the high pressure pump should be between 24 and 34 percent. Mine is at 32.8 percent so that's good.
- however, the Y74 pressure control valve should be between 17 and 24 percent. Mine is below that range at 15.7 percent.
- the fuel temp should be between 8 and 40°C. Mine is at 39°C, which is terriblterribly to the max temp but within range and so I'm not sure if to be concerned about that.
I'm going to start with switching out the Y74 with my old one to see if the values adjust. And if it does, hopefully it fixes the issue.
Does anyone know how to do a hands-on, eye test on the fuel pressure control valve?
Last edited by SpikeJones; 04-28-2021 at 01:41 AM.
04-28-2021, 12:45 PM
#5
Senior Member
If you have someone to ride shotgun with you, can you have them capture these numbers while you try to recreate the faulty behavior?
(Going down the road to give motor a load, not distracted by the scanner)
That would give you the most relevant data.
Good you're able to buy only the pressure control valve without rail!
I think the indicated pressure readings would amount to the best/most accurate test of it's operation, without putting a known-good high pressure mechanical fuel pressure gauge on the rail.
(And driving down the road with gauge lines running back to cab might get a little bit adventurous!)
I had wondered if readings in your early posts were with car at rest, and so they were.
(Going down the road to give motor a load, not distracted by the scanner)
That would give you the most relevant data.
Good you're able to buy only the pressure control valve without rail!
I think the indicated pressure readings would amount to the best/most accurate test of it's operation, without putting a known-good high pressure mechanical fuel pressure gauge on the rail.
(And driving down the road with gauge lines running back to cab might get a little bit adventurous!)
I had wondered if readings in your early posts were with car at rest, and so they were.
04-29-2021, 11:44 PM
#6
Senior Member
just a thought - have you done a scan of the transmission? or are you just doing the engine (common rail) scan?
I agree live data would be good while driving
I agree live data would be good while driving
04-30-2021, 01:23 PM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the input guys. I've scanned for tranny codes but nothing showed up.
I wasn't able to get someone to ride shotgun, but I did monitor the data as best as I could while driving. The Y74 pressure regulator valve's values were off pretty much all the time. The hp pump's Y94 quantity valve hardly ever moved at all. The car took a long time to die this time around, and I kind of missed exactly what happened when it finally did. What I do know, is that the pressure too high due to Y94 codes came back after it died. The Y74 code came back just shortly after I started driving.
So I began trying to swap my current Y74 with my old one just to see if the values change. But my goodness, getting that thing out of that rail is no easy feat! Might have to call the guy who did it last time. After that, I'll take another drive to see what the values are.
I wasn't able to get someone to ride shotgun, but I did monitor the data as best as I could while driving. The Y74 pressure regulator valve's values were off pretty much all the time. The hp pump's Y94 quantity valve hardly ever moved at all. The car took a long time to die this time around, and I kind of missed exactly what happened when it finally did. What I do know, is that the pressure too high due to Y94 codes came back after it died. The Y74 code came back just shortly after I started driving.
So I began trying to swap my current Y74 with my old one just to see if the values change. But my goodness, getting that thing out of that rail is no easy feat! Might have to call the guy who did it last time. After that, I'll take another drive to see what the values are.
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05-02-2021, 07:47 AM
#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
UPDATE!!!
So the month of May is starting off great! I replaced the Y74 pressure regulator valve with my old one and my baby got her growl back! No more limp mode!!!!!
So apparently, the used Y74 was bad. My old one immediately showed values withing the correct range according to my scanner. After closer inspection, I noticed it wasn't even the right part number! This is why it's always good to DIY your cars because a lot of techs really don't care because they're gonna get paid anyway!
So I'm excited right now to have my car running well. However, there's a code still coming up but it says disregard...
16F700 - disregard this fault.
Normally I would ignore it the disregard code, but it's giving me the CEL, and I think that is really odd. The car seems to be driving fine now, no more limp mode, going to 4000+ RPM, and it has not cut off while driving so far... although I might have to drive it for a couple of hours straight to be sure. But if all is good, why is a disregard code throwing the CEL?
Any ideas, anyone?
So the month of May is starting off great! I replaced the Y74 pressure regulator valve with my old one and my baby got her growl back! No more limp mode!!!!!
So apparently, the used Y74 was bad. My old one immediately showed values withing the correct range according to my scanner. After closer inspection, I noticed it wasn't even the right part number! This is why it's always good to DIY your cars because a lot of techs really don't care because they're gonna get paid anyway!
So I'm excited right now to have my car running well. However, there's a code still coming up but it says disregard...
16F700 - disregard this fault.
Normally I would ignore it the disregard code, but it's giving me the CEL, and I think that is really odd. The car seems to be driving fine now, no more limp mode, going to 4000+ RPM, and it has not cut off while driving so far... although I might have to drive it for a couple of hours straight to be sure. But if all is good, why is a disregard code throwing the CEL?
Any ideas, anyone?
Last edited by SpikeJones; 05-02-2021 at 07:52 AM.
05-02-2021, 09:17 AM
#9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
ANOTHER UPDATE:
Disregard the part of my last update where I blamed the CEL on the "disregard" code. I ran a full scan of all components and found the culprit was an adblue code
- 20BD1B - the output for the adblue tank heating element has an open circuit or other electrical faults.
I have cleared the code and my CEL is gone. If the code comes back then I guess that's just another crap I have to tackle. For now though, car is driving fine. Fingers crossed.
Thanks guys!
Disregard the part of my last update where I blamed the CEL on the "disregard" code. I ran a full scan of all components and found the culprit was an adblue code
- 20BD1B - the output for the adblue tank heating element has an open circuit or other electrical faults.
I have cleared the code and my CEL is gone. If the code comes back then I guess that's just another crap I have to tackle. For now though, car is driving fine. Fingers crossed.
Thanks guys!
