Napkin

I put 12v directly to the Cooper wire and ground and it Powers much more 😎🙈😂

Welwynnick

What is the copper wire???

Nick

Napkin

sorry i meant directly on the cooper winding of the engine. i pulled out the electronics and go directly on the pins of the electro motor.

Crissus

Thats interesting. I order the CWA100 pump now at the german shop you posted originally for 300€/piece.
The shop says its producing 41lpm at 0.6bar or more than 60lpm (thats one liter every second!!!) at zero resistance.

Cant we use a fake PWM controller at that one pin to let it run all the time at 100%? Or maybe they are wrong connected?

Billy22Bob

follow what I did for the CWA50.
https://mbworld.org/forums/6004400-post191.html

Crissus

Thanks. What would be the easiest method testing throuput of the pump installed in the car, using cars electrical wiring?
I really need this pump doing 100% without PWM controller.

Nick are you there? Any contacts to Pierburg that can help us?

Welwynnick

Never very far away.

I don't know what Napkin's source of information is, but I heard the same thing from SFR Electronics. I've never been able to find the CWA-100 manual that I stumbled across last year, but I did find this little gold-mine:

http://webpages.charter.net/n8nxf/EV...ant%20Pump.pdf

and this from Pierburg, if you have some time...

http://www.pierburg-service.de/ximag...mtzextrako.pdf

Nick

Billy22Bob

it cant be any easier than what I posted.
3 connections to the pump - 1 through the 1.5k ohm resistor....jobs done.

Crissus

Ok well the first link helps IF the CWA100 is same to the CWA50 pins.
What connector Type do i need? I want to wire it clean. Are the stock lines thick enought to support the 100W++ powerconsumption ?

So you are 100% sure it then runs at 100% speed? Napkin the Seller of the Pump in Germany said otherwise.
Maybe he can chime in and tell how he wired it, hopefully he just made a mistake.

Welwynnick

What was your power consumption when you did that?

Nick

Welwynnick

Lots of informationj at the end of this thread:

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...w-about-3.html

These are the parts I ordered from my BMW dealer:

1 x 12527549033 Plastic Socket Housing
4 x 61138366245 Rubber sealing grommets
4 x 12527545858 Individual Socket Pins

The 61133333333 part number is not meaningful - it just means some undefined socket.

Here are the parts that I bought (two sets - one for the car, one for the pump test rig)



You can probaby crimp the cables to the pins, but I soldered them instead:



And here's the assembled connector:

Crissus

Thanks alot. As i write this reply i just received the pump. Its tiny, amazing that this little pump should perform twice as good as the Bosch 010 pump. Wow. Speechless.
Number on the pump is: "7.02500.25.0"

Napkin added the correct BMW connector aswell, however there are 2 contacts missing.
Can anyone confirm that the Pierburg Number "7.02500.25.0" is indeed the CWA100 and not the CWA50? :-)

Regarding the holder/bracket. Any ideas? There is one from the SLS AMG with partnumber: "A1975040146" with EPC picture see here: http://www.mbpartsworld.com/p/__/RET...975040146.html

What do you think?

EDIT: My connector looks different, just for your information guys. But it fits right into my pump.

Welwynnick

There's a little nugget of information that I think I missed first time round. If you look at the chart below, that corresponds very closely to what Pierburg say the CWA50 will do, installed in a typical IC system (second system curve). That sounds like its running at full power to me - with a simple 12V conenction to the control pin.

Crissus

I wonder why we would need a 1.5K Ohm resistor at Pin 3?
Can i use other ones? I dont have a 1.5K Ohm here

With 1.5K Ohm at 12-14.4V you almost completely annihilate the current. So i dont get it.
From Nicks document it should be "OK" to use 12V to Pin3 without any resistor.

How can i measure if the pump really works with the power as advertised? Where to measure the power flow? At the fuse for the pump?

Different question, should i upgrade the stock 10A fuse with something higher for the CWA100?

Welwynnick

1.5kohm is fine because the controller input impedance will be high.
Its only there for protection against fault conditions.
The exact value isn't important.
Measure the power consumption by measuring the current through either pin 1 or pin 4.
Don't forget to measure the actual voltage across 1 and 4, as the pump itself will pull a battery down slightly.
10A is probably OK for the fuse, but it might be a good idea to upgrade to 20A.

Nick

Billy22Bob

yes - 1.5kOhm to protect signal electronics in pump
1.5kOhm on 12V will only allow 8milli Amps - more than enough for signal electronics.
Can be any value between 1k and 2kOhms

I usually apply 1-1.5kOhm on any signal Input/outputs.

Crissus

Hi Folks, i confirmed via MS Autoservice (Part of Pier Burg group), hat my pump is indeed the cwa-100. It was a bit of a problem and i was asked where i got hat pump from.
Anyway , i installed the pump today. Wired Pin3 with a 1KOhm resistor. Pump runs approx. 3sec after the relay switches the power on.

However it only consumes 6.8 to 7 Ampere at 11.6V. 11.6V despite charger beacause with Star Diagnosis, it lets the main cooling fan roar which sucks from the battery pretty hard.
Thats calculated 81.2 Watt. The CWA100 is a pump in the 100Watt Range. According To my information the cwa-100 consumes up To 135Watt. The
CWA-50 consumes typically already 6.5 Amps.... So my conclusion is that it doesnt run at full power. :-(

In the car after a long bleeding session, its hardly a difference noticable against the Bosch 010 pump. It does recover a bit Bettler and quicker from very high IATs though, but not anywhere as close as what i expected.
I want it to run Art 100% but how?

Thanks alot
- Christian-

Welwynnick

I think the answer is to use the SFR Electronics pump controller. They say they can get it running at 100%.

The IC system is very sensitive to air in the coolant. Are you confident that you bled it successfully? Does the pump run quietly without any whooshing noises?

The HE is a particular problem, as the inlet is at the bottom, and the outlet is in the bottom half of the HE. An unforgivable mistake by Mercedes, and one of the reasons they say you have to use the vacuum bleeder.

The Mercedes system uses a compressed-air driven vacuum pump, and even that isn't really adequate to evacuate the system. The pressure doesn't go low enough to boil the coolant.

Nick

Crissus

Hi Nick thanks for your reply,
On the C215 CL55 AMG cars, there is no need for a bleeder since the system auto-bleeds itself according to my information/FSM. It has a bleed line at its "almost" highest point that gets right into the stock overflow tank.
Also the CL55 AMG only has on big HE at the very front of the radiator/condenser sandwhich, NO additional bottom HE like on the W220 S-class or SL R230 series.

I let the pump run for around half an hour via Star Diagnosis and the overflow tank lost quite some amount of liquid and often bubbles appeared. I waited until all that was over, topped the overflow tank with fresh water and that was my bleeding session.

Yes the pump runs veeeeeery quiet, no signs of any gushing or bubbles inside.

While i was working with STAR, i did the minus 10degree Fan mod. That IMHO helps alot getting the IAT cooler during slow city drives. But anyway...

Here are my findings in IAT after the CWA-100 installation on bright daylight:
Yesterday during daylight we had 27°C (80°F) ambient temperatures.

With AC on and set to 22°C (71.2°F) cabin temp, the IATs where:
- City cruising (no boost at all!) : Between 43°C to 47°C (109°F to 116°F)
- Autobahn cruising (around 130-160kph): Between 42°C to 44°C (107°F to 111°F)

With AC off, IATs dropped slightly:
- City cruising (no boost at all!) : Between 40°C to 44°C (104°F to 111°F)
- Autobahn cruising (around 130-160kmh): Between 38°C to 40°C (100°F to 104°F)

So thats AT BEST 20°F above ambient when cruising on the Autobahn with AC OFF.

The funny thing is, that when getting out of the car and touching the large HE, it always had ambient temps. No heat no nothing....

Yesterday night, the Ambient Temp dropped to 16°C (60F) and i was going to get some food. So i cruised a bit outside and inside the city and my IATs remained at 32°C (90°F) and NEVER get any lower. And that was with AC off.

Howerver there are three things that improved over the Bosch 010 pump:

- City IATs where always above 50°C (122°F) before now in summer, but now with the CWA-100 pump they dropped a few degrees. Also i believe the -10° blower mod did help since it runs now when cruising inside cities.

- IAT peak at Autobahn WOT run remains lower. I never saw 60°C (140°F) IAT yesterday, despite doing many 100-200kph++ runs directly after each other with AC disabled.
Before, driving that way, it would have been as high as 68°C (154°F) at such ambient temperatures.

- Recovery time is better. Starting at 39°C (102°F) IAT, doing a WOT pull from 100kph (62mph) to 230kph (144mph) raised IAT to 54°C (129°F). Keeping that speed or reducing it because of traffic, lowers IAT within ~20 seconds back to 39°C (102°F).
Before the CWA-100 pump upgrade it took at least 1-2 minutes (a "felt" value though).

So my question is, why do i have such high IATs? In the W211 AMG forums, people say they always have around 10°F above ambient when cruising and since they are in the USA i assume with AC ON.
Is the C215 bad designed for charge cooling despite having a felt 3 times as large stock HE than the W211?

Welwynnick

Have you tried connecting the pump control line to the ignition, so it runs all the time?

The stock pump is switched off when the IAT drops below 35 degC.

Nick

https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...75-freaks.html

Crissus

No i haven't and i wont. I'll let a tuner lower the kick-in temperature via tune (thats possible on the 55K) or let it run constantly via tune.

Today i did another bleeding according to FSM and yes there were still bubbles in it.
Basically you take pliers to block hoses, you block the return line and use a transparent line on the bleeding nipple.
Boy i tell you, even though that was on the return side and so after it passed through that bad 3-pass intercooler, you could still use it as a garden hose, that much of a pressure it creates.
10L of water from the bucket (we flushed the system while we were on it) where gone in a few seconds, so quick does that thing flow.
Impressive pump! However we could not fully 100% bleed it, because my battery collapes because that fcking main fan runs all the time at 50% (425Watt!) when activating the pump via Star Diagnosis.

Welwynnick

I don't know nearly as much about the 55K as the 600, but it looks like the IC system is better. It shares a header tank, and there's a vent pipe from the IC to the header, which is great. However, there ought to be a vent pipe from the HE as well. Since the HE inlet isn't at the top, there's no way to bleed the HE without a vacuum filler. It's quite likely that the pressure drop across the HE matrix is greater than the head of pressure up the inlet header tank, in which case the air in the latter will be forced out. It will take less than 1 psi to fill the header, but I bet the pressure drop is at least that much. However, there's no chance that all the air will be forced out of the other tanks. Nomatter how you fill it, there will always be air in the HE. The W215/220 600 & 65 are worse, but MB seemed to learn their lesson in the W216/221 - I think they have the fill ports at the top.

Having said all that, I think changing the switch on temp in firmware is definitely the right thing to do.

Nick

Crissus

Hi Nick, please see the attachments in english. Its a difference like night and day.

I trust the MB FSM. If they say it has to be bleed that way, then it has to.
I could not find anything else at the HE.

kittyandgary

There is a lot of info on this thread about Pierburg coolant pumps (BMW uses them). They certainly seem to have significant better flow rates than even the replacement Bosch pump.

I've seen the CWA 50 pump (or BMW part) priced from $250 to over $500.

I've found that these CWA 50 pumps are quite popular with the guys who are developing and driving electric cars. And, I found a source for the pump at a significant discount. I paid $75 plus reasonable shipping costs for a new one I recently bought and just received.

The fellow selling these has more, and is willing to have his e-mail given to those interested in buying (but he is leaving home - US west coast - in a few days and may not be responding to e-mails for a while). IF you are interested in purchasing this significant upgrade for your supercharger coolant, contact me via a direct e-mail and I'll provide his e-mail address.

I'm sure it will be first come first served until his supply is exhausted. State 'Pierburg CWA 50' in the subject, so I don't miss it and delete it without responding!!

My e-mail address is: kittyandgary@verizon.net

Goletiani

does anyone have Pierburg CWA100 2 for sale?