icerabbit

I actually don't know, since I don't have a current Audi or BMW owner in the family. I know Volvo XC70 and others only have front defog. For all I know Audi BMW may only do front defog any more as well. But, I do still see dedicated fog lights on them, besides regular lights and drl.

Anyhow. My spouse's E350 rwd has front window defrost wires ... so why doesn't an ML / GL 4Matic which is more likely to be used throughout winter and in a northern climate?

I may go look at a Q5 & Q7. Audi is actually an hour closer than the nearest MB dealer. I wouldn't make that switch easily though as I know VAG vehicles have their own share of issues.

fabbrisd1

"I just looked at some '14s. Still no front window defrost wires in the ML nor GL either. Number one gripe with my ML during true winter driving is all the snow & ice buildup on the windshield and wipers."

Good reason for heated washer reservoir SPC option ... like under $120...

icerabbit

I have seen that as an individual option. I will spec it on the next vehicle. It was not on the one we purchased from the dealer lot and little did I know we'd have these windshield clearing issues driving an ML in a snow storm.

To expand on it. The ice and wet snow buildup in the winter has been a huge safety issue for us, when you can't keep the front windshield & wipers clear (no issue in the back) and litterally have to pull off the interstate several times (like every 20-30 minutes) to clean the wipers and windshield edges by hand.

It doesn't matter how hot or cold you keep the cabin, whether you put heat on the windshield or not, it seems to have little to no effect in the ML when you're dealing with lots of damp/wet snow (dry stuff flies over the car). I have tried it all. Less or more wiper use, spraying loads of -40F washer fluid, keeping defog on. They're all combined still ineffective.

The dealer's service reps up here have acknowledged it is an issue. They suggest using max air/defog. Well, I've tried that too. Max air/defog continuously for over an hour, while it is 10F out, sweating through a t-shirt and light summer pants (normally I dress for winter during winter) and the windows cracked a little or I'd have died ... it was the ML sauna edition. Guess what? I still got get snow/ice buildup around the windshield that prevented the wipers from traveling completely and the wipers still flexed away from the windshield, riding on ice cubes; and I still had to pull over to fix the flex wipers.

Contrast that to our minivan for instance (or older vehicles before that with defrost wire) which has driven through similar storms & blizzards - the kind where your vehicle turns white and you can't see a single spot of color - and all it needs is a moderate bit of cabin heat on low towards the windshield. Cheap rigid winter wipers. Front & Rear defrost on. Never an issue for several hours. You'll pull over to clear your side windows after several hours, but the front stays completely clear, ...

So, needless to say, I haven't been impressed with MB's arctic testing and cost cutting measure to not have front defrost.

Maybe heated washer fluid will be the trick, and is the German solution to the problem, though it still seems like a poor solution to go through loads of chemical juice when a bit of heat strip lets the ice break away from the wipers blades and the rest just melts away into the gutter.

Anyway. At least I don't have to worry about it for another 6 months. End rant

DUTCH

I haven't looked to see if it would be applicable to the ML, but there is a German "trick" to help the windshield freezing problem on the G-Class.

There is a rubber gasket on the G-Class that runs across the top of the firewall and seals to the hood when the hood is closed. Removing that gasket allows engine heat to flow out against the windshield, thereby helping to keep it and the wiper blades clear from snow and ice. It also helps the engine to run cooler in the summer.

Not sure if this would be an option with the ML, but it might be an interesting experiment.

icerabbit

Wowza ! A German trick to help with this !
I can't believe what I'm reading. Even the Germans have a problem with it!
That alone makes me happy. Not specifically that Germans have an issue with it, but that I'm not alone

Because, you know, sometimes/many times you get the impression and answer that you're the only guy with that issue when you voice a concern. Like with the sales guy for instance last week when I was browsing. You kinda get a funny look as if you are poco loco ... unless, it is "oh crap he knows about the ice/snow flaw!"

I was {this} close to getting an XC70 at one point, and walked away when I saw it was the same no-defrost and flexible wiper setup as my ML. Didn't even test drive it. Sales guy was shocked. Explained it further. Got the answer "yeah we hear about this, but it is only an issue during bad weather". No cigar, sherlock, I want a safe AWD vehicle that I can actually see out of during a snow storm. That's the reason we bought that ML, to be safer no matter what winter weather.

Anyway. I've pondered at one time if there was no way to get excess engine heat into that gutter box. Happy to hear. Removing a seal may be option. I will investigate this further.

Dank je, Dutch

DUTCH

Keep in mind that this "trick" was for older G-Class. I'm pretty sure that the newer G-Class have a wired windshield.

fabbrisd1

Correct - G-Wagen's the nature of the frame/dash contruction prevents front defrost heater vents - so the G-Wagen is electrically heated - you really need to check your insurance coverage on windhsield replacement with the G-Wagen (costly glass with that electrical) and/or preferably get added MB Protection policy due to that.

On this thread - adding heated windshield reservoir "should" reduce/eliminate this issue - option code should be 875 for a total $105...

DUTCH

My G500 has windshield defroster vents - one on the drivers side and one on the passenger side. Maybe, newer models no longer have these.

I just heard from a friend who had a 2003 G-Class and now has a 2014 G-Class. They both have/had windshield defroster vents.

You must be looking at the Chinese knock-offs of the G-Class.

icerabbit

I read it as GL, but G is fine. The idea remains the same and is worth exploring, to get warm air from the engine to the gutter box wiper area.

To expand on it just a bit more, if I may.

My / the windshield freezing and wiper freezing problems - on my ML and other vehicles with the same wiper setup - are in my opinion due to the fact that the wiper rest area is too low, to allow for better aero thus fuel economy and aesthetics.

My ML's wipers sit on the black strip of glass below the interior dash level and thus well outside of the direct range of the hot air vents. The dash vents are also inset a little ways and blow air vertically up. This means that there is little if any heat reaching the area where the wipers park. The wipers only see warmed glass while in operation, which may have a small thawing effect for the first few minutes, but each time they go to the bottom of the windshield, they refreeze. Things just get worse and worse after 5-10-15 minutes. Any little melting just refreezes. So then you pull over every 20 minutes in a storm to slam the wipers on the glass to break the ice free and scrape the glass in the park area.

Other vehicles I've driven trouble free through winter storms (with winter wipers with the rubber sleeve or beam wipers) have the wiper rest / park area higher up, on the clear glass above the dash level (and you see the wipers from inside the car), where they do receive heat from the front vents and sit atop some front defrost wires. That heated zone of glass where the wipers rest allows snow & ice to continuously melt from the edge of the blades and stuff breaks away when the wipers are in motion. No accumulation on the blades and in the rest area. The snow & sleet just melts and runs off.

Note that I know not all snow storms are the same, not all snow is intense and sticky, fluffy dry flakes just blow off ... and this only affects people who travel longer distances through a snow storm, which depends on where you live, how far you commute every day by car, etc.

But, I think for people who live up North, that this is a serious safety issue, when they want to drive safely to home/work/airport/... and do not have a choice but travel through adverse weather. I think it is an important issue for their vehicle and those of family members. And it is really one that bugs me, thinking about my next ML.

Anyway. Back to 2015 updates

DUTCH

Of interest is that the Audi Q7 parks the wipers higher up on the windshield when the temperature is below a certain point. This to prevent freezing in place.

jtorrebl

I've had 8 Audis since 2002 they don't have wire front windshield defrosters. My mom has an old 1998 jaguar vanden plas and it has that wire.
I just don't think they do that anymore . My q7 didn't have it for sure.
Re: fogs, my 2012 a6 with led headlights didn't have fog lights either. But did have a side bad weather light that could be turned on separately like a fog light but It was not a fog light for sure. Seams like the new cars don't come with this. My dads top o the line 2014 s class doesn't have front wire or fogs either.

All my Audis had no issues either. I'm just with Benz because the q7 wasn't updated and we needed a new car. I am an Audi guy for sure.

DUTCH

My 2010 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI was the best car I've ever owned. In 60,000 miles it never went to the dealer for repairs.

Going to my current 2014 MB ML350BTC was a real let down and one of my bigger mistakes. While the Q7 did not have all the electronic gee-gaws that the ML does, the Q7 drove like a German luxury car; and the ML drives like a Chevy. I especially dislike the 7G-Tronic hard shifting (same as my 2007 ML with no improvement) and the electric steering with no real road feel. The Airmatic suspension in the ML is also inferior to that of the Q7.

My current plan is to see and drive the 2015 Audi Q7 TDI when they come out; and will almost certainly trade the ML in on one.

jtorrebl

What didn't your q7 have compared to the ml? Audi had everything. They had the lane tracker way back then too. I had it on my 2008 q7. Cup holder cooler and hear would be the only thing I can see that my q7 didn't have.
What else? Audi is not Behind at all. Opposite in fact

Strafzettel

Why was the 2014 ML 350BTC a let down? We have the 2014 Audi A6 TDI and I wish we had at least test driven the E-Class Bluetec. We didn't because the Audi has more power and a V6 while the E-Class has a 4 cylinder.
I absolutely hate the steering in the Audi... my C350 I can drive on the highway with one finger but the A6 steering requires both hands on the wheel and it always seems to go left or right but never straight. The instruments are too clustered and the engine is certainly not as refined as the MB 350 BT engine. The Audi needed a new tail light within the first few weeks and the breaks had an issue at 8000 miles where they didn't brake smoothly giving a little whiplash when coming to a stop. It's fast though and gets 38 mpg on the highway.

DUTCH

Strafzettel, I already gave the reasons for my preference in the post above.

Keep in mind that the Q7 is not an A6. The Q7 is built in the same factory as the Porsche Cayenne and the VW Touareg.

I had zero, as in nada, gar nichts problems with my Q7. It sat for a long time on my MB dealer's used lot after I traded it for the ML; and I was tempted more than once to go back and get it.

Strafzettel

Sorry, I didn't count "The ML drives like a Chevy" as a reason. When was the last time you drove a Chevy???

DUTCH

Monday in LA, a new Impala with 700 miles on it. Drove about the same as the ML.

Kartergreg

The Q7 was one of 2 SUVs I considered just before I bought my diesel ML. That was a year ago and I can't remember exactly everything we did and didn't like about it. I liked the size as it is larger but the front grill needs to be changed. It's ugly. There was something about the interior that wasn't as comfortable for us. Wife didn't like it because she wanted a Mercedes.

I also was really interested in the Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel and thought about ordering one even though none were available for testing. Wife said absolutely not. Drove the gas version and as much as I wanted to like it I just could not get comfortable in the rock hard seats. Looking at all the issues people are having with the new diesel version over on the jeepgarage forum, I'm glad I did not go that route.

Ten months now since we bought the ML and no problems.

xMB007x

I also considered the Q7. What I disliked is how "old" it is since it hasn't been redesigned since 07. Also the Q7 is bigger and it still has less cargo capacity with all the seats folded than the ML (73 vs 81 cubic feet).

DUTCH

Believe me! The Q7 with only the third row folded (seating for 4 or 5) has far more cargo space than the ML with no seats folded (seating for 4 or 5).

We're getting ready to take a month long trip pulling our camper trailer; and I'm already missing the cargo space of the Q7. There is a major difference!

27T

Q7 interior feels cramped.

DUTCH

Not to me, and I'm a big (6'4", 270 lbs) guy. The Q7 actually has more driver's leg room than the ML. Just look up the numbers.

I'm done with this back and forth about the Q7 and the ML. I won't change your mind, and you won't change mine.

Happy Motoring!

Subatomic Power

I was told that the remote start option is not available for the ML550's that I ordered. The reason is that the vehicle apparently heats up in the winters very quickly due to its aluminum block engine - so the reasoning is that no remote starter is needed. Not sure I agree - but MB didn't ask me.

Strafzettel

That sounds like something a sales guy would say

Subatomic Power

That's true - but I checked and it is true that MB's can't be remote started. Ever. After market starters bugger up the electronics.