LETO

http://www.benzreport.com/2015-c-cla...rior/#more-921

Kratos-TM

Call me selfish, but I don't want the C to be completely identical. Let it have some "C-ness" about it other than being small. If that made sense.......lol.

Archaetype

I agree, I think it's lazy designing. It may detract from the prestige of the S-class but I won't let that bother me

LETO

Well the design is out & not going to change. In non sport trim it looks very close to an S.

Do you think the E will just be a medium S?

Is MB going to cut the sausage into 3 sizes like Audi & BMW in the future?

Kratos-TM

The one thing I liked about Mercedes was that all the models had their own look. I can't stand that about BMW and Audi. I hope MB doesn't become like BMW and Audi in that aspect.

schuk

As much as I hate driving S-class and been mistaken for C-Class Mercedes has been doing this all the way in the 90`s. S-Class, E-Class and 190 all look the same just in different sizes.

Germancar1

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Once people see the size of either car, there will be no confusion. At least they're both gorgeous cars, they could be dishwater bland like the A4 to A8 relationship at Audi.

M

LETO

Agreed. like various sizes of iceberg lettuce that Audi Sedan lineup

Kratos-TM

You're right. I thought about that today as I was driving around.

K-A

Wow, looks IDENTICAL to the S. Sad news as once C's outnumber S' 500-1, the C won't be seen as a "mini S", but the S a "large C". M-B are adopting BMW and Audi's same-sausage idiom and going even heavier exterior-wise with that, IMO. Cars at this price point should have far more presence-individuality aside from simply size, IMO. The Audi A8 is partially held back by the fact that even with its size difference, you literally can't pick it apart from an A4. The BMW 7 Series I find to be a gorgeous design when in SWB yet when the F10 5 came out IMO it made the F01 far less desirable as the "cheaper" car took its exact look and even improved upon it, shaking out a lot of the 7's presence-factor. Same could possibly be said about the C.

What helps the "cheaper" cars, i.e looking like the more expensive model/s will naturally have the reverse effect on the larger model. Both the S and C will be spanking new for a while but give it 2-3 years when you've seen tons of W222's and there are W205's all over the place and if it bugs you already.... pretty sure by then the effect be far more significant.

LETO

i wonder if there will be a better V6 to keep up with the BMW 335i engine. This is one area the C has never been up to par

Kratos-TM

In the end, money always win. There's a lot more money to be made in the lower cost cars. And that money bank will seduce a brand to throw away prestige for profit.

Not upset or panicky about it, just things to think about. Like was the CLA really needed? Hmmm.....

Germancar1

There is a new 3.0L turbo V6 on the way, should be called either the C350 or C400 in the U.S. I'm hoping for the former name, not the later. Rated at around 333hp.

M

K-A

If you ask me, NO. Whatever got M-B to need to put out a FWD with every current design trend thrown at it I wish would have been went about in a different way.... i.e maybe take one more generation to improve their current crop of cars, make them more desirable, profitable, etc. etc. Then if that didn't work, start the diminishing-brand-halo factor by bringing in quirky FWD cars with no performance or technological breakthroughs (i.e CLA).

What Mercedes has always had going for them, even in the face of other brands that make better performing or whatever cars, is the "brand", it's a prestige that was generated for over a century and has had a lasting impression through the toughest of times in M-B modern history. You see more people on M-B boards who will buy M-B's that they might not even like all so much or admit look or drive less desirably than the competing brands cars (you see it on the E forum quite a bit), but they refuse to drive anything but a "Mercedes". Mercedes garnered tons of mindshare from their faithful to the point where they don't even have to outperform the competition to stay viable. By putting out diminishing-brand-value cars on a "prestige" level (like a FWD econocar) they put that at risk for future generations.... even with upper segment cars (which are selling less than they use to, except for the S, due to M-B basically making cheaper cars that share enough with them that are enticing enough to save the extra dough.... hence the new SL being a smaller deal than any SL before it, or the CL selling practically zilch, and the CLS will probably see some drawbacks after the lookalike CLA has come into play, etc.).

The S will always have a market because it's the upper echelon car that serves a true function and can't be duplicated by a more compact Sedan (except for in design).

I have family in Europe and while they say M-B is everlastingly prestigious and respected, in the past decade or so, the "want factor" on a prestige and aspirational level is diminished. When I ask my Cousin why he doesn't want an SL or CL (he's in the market for a car in that range, a Coupe preferably) he says "it isn't like it used to be" in the sense that expensive M-B's aren't as sought after, aspirationally, due to the lower range M-B's who are far more prevalent than upper range M-B's, essentially "taking over the brand" in terms of perception.

TomS

Maybe I'm missing something, but I purchased an S Class because I wanted what the car offers. Are we really that concerned with what the valet thinks of us? If I'm more comfortable in the V222 and like the features, I'm happy. I guess I don't get why it matters to anyone but those buying it.

K-A

Of course, but fact of the matter is that there's a brand/badge premium that you're paying for on these cars. Especially on an S Class who's probably one of M-B's highest margin offerings. You're literally paying for the premium aura of Mercedes. Same goes for Apple products, Rolls', Bentleys, BMW's, etc. which is why if they dilute that, then you're essentially getting less for your money in that regard.

MBZSW221

Agreed. Car looks like a S-Class wannabe. I just saw a W222 on the road again. Wow never thought it looked that good after seeing it for real. Also saw a Maybach 62, CLA, and a Ferrari 599 GTO. Looks like everybody is driving.
I think every Mercedes has to be itself. Not to be anything other than it. Just like the S-Class. Lazy design for the new C.

Germancar1

More misinformation. The SL and CL don't sell like they used to, YES that is true, but NONE of the cars in the segment sell like they did 7-10+ years ago when their previous designs were introduced. I have looked up the numbers and posted them when you were at GCF and proved this theory to be WRONG. Period. Why do you keep repeating this? The only one that has improved their sales in this segment is Audi. When are you going to quit repeating this misinformation?

What do you mean the SL is a smaller deal than before? They just re-designed the car from the ground up. How is that a smaller deal than before?


M

LETO

I personally see nothing but positives for brand image when there are really attractive cars available at the bottom end. Especially ones that mimic the higher end of the spectrum.

Like it or not the last gen SLK was attractive because it had the SLR nose. I don't hear anyone talking about the new SLK. If you try to look up video reviews for the new SLK55 they are sparse. There was a lot of buzz around the mini SLR model when it came out and it actually sold well. The SLK55 forum on this site was actually quite good fun with excitement back then.

There is a reason why BMW has always been so trendy. Their best cars are available in the forms of the 3 series & it's variants.

Also, Audi with the significantly attractive new A4 has managed to sky rocket their image.

More attractive lower end cars = more cars seen by people on the road and desired = best advertising for the brand.

Which is cleary why MB's more exciting design is being focused on the CLA, GLA, C & future GLK. While being amped up on the S, S-coupe & even the future SLC.

For example as much as we on this forum are familiar with the new S. Especially as some of us have one & rest are waiting for delivery. Chances you will see one on the road other than yours (disclaimer: in most parts of the country) will be rare for the first year.

MBNUT1

I agree with the spirit of this. You want the lower end to be quality pieces. It only enhances the cachet of the upper end models.

On rarity I remember when Mercedes were so rare that when we would see another you would beep at each other. They were special, joyful moments for sure.

Germancar1

Well you actually want all of your cars to be quality pieces and that is what Mercedes is doing. Not that they weren't before, but now they're going for the best in every segment. S does that and it appears the C is going for the same. The budget/FWD models are limited in this regard for obvious cost reasons but they aren't penalty boxes and they still look great. The GLA will be an even bigger hit than the CLA IMO.

M

ImInPA

I think a lot of this is American perception of the MB brand. Indeed, the A-class has been available in all of its FWD-glory for a long time. There is a B-class too. Mercedes is really not that much different than Ford or GM. They make lots of vehicles, not just Luxury models. From Large Tractor Trailers, vans, off road equipment, to cars that compete with Golfs, etc. I for one am glad that MB is expanding their product lines. I think the CLA is a lot nicer than an Accord, Camry, Fusion, etc. Bring'em on MB.

K-A

Because nobody likes or cares about the new SL. Watch sales tank on that too after the initial "hype" (which is nonexistent compared to previous SL's, this is a car that didn't get an update for almost over 10 years and it barely gets attention).

Excuses excuses, apologies are apologies (and you have 'em all for M-B, I'll give you that). The CL, SL, and probably soon (I'm sure already, especially with the IMO terrible new bodystyle) CLS sell less than they used to, that's all I was saying, and M-B moving more downmarket by volume and price is affecting that. Those are simply facts, sans apologies, spin and excuses. And your first point is inaccurate as brands like Rolls and Bentley and various other high end luxury or exotic sports car makers have seen explosive growth during the same time M-B have seen declining sales in their upper segment cars. The fact that these upper segment M-B's are far less expensive than the growing upper-upper-end Luxury makers further proves that it's M-B's own doing of "cheapening" the offerings in their brand that pushes higher rollers into brands that carry a more worthy cachet for those dollars.

LETO

I do agree with Germancar1 that the GLA will be a bigger hit that than the CLA. A very nice alternative to something like the countryman and the very awkward looking X1

Germancar1

When you can find out how to measure how much people "care" about a car, beyond actual sales let me know. I'd love to see where you can measure how much people "care" about a car and not take into account the car's sales figures. One thing is solid (sales), the other just guesswork (your theory). The only thing that is hurting the SL is the look, not because Mercedes has introduced a 30K CLA. Sales slowed in Oct, but are up like 60% YTD over last year and the car came out in Spring 2012.

The SL has always been a 10+ year car so what is the point of saying that when it is common knowledge?

You don't have one bit of information or facts to support anything, it is all your brainless theories about nothing.

The S Coupe as it will be called is stunning by most accounts and in case you didn't notice, Mercedes is planning a similar expansion at the top of their range. S Sedan, coupe, convertible XXL S and something to replace the Maybach, doesn't sound like a company moving down market.

See if you grasp this, they are expanding at both ends. Fact.

No you're wrong. Look at the sale figures. Since 2007-2008 even Rolls and Bentley have shrunk are are just not climbing back up, and they still aren't at those heights yet.

Lets look at some actual numbers (facts) for a change. You say Bentley?

Bentley sales in the U.S. -

2002 - 519

2003 - 412

2004 - 2394

2005 - 3654

2006 - 3856

2007 - 3990 <-- they have not reached this again in 6 years since!

2008 - 2693

2009 - 1367

2010 - 1430

2011 - 1877

2012 - 2315

Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. Bentley isn't even close to what they sold back in 2005-2007, before everything changed!

This is called proof, facts and figures. What you got? Some completely baseless theory about why car sales are the way they are.

I have proved this to you time and time again and you keep repeating the same misinformation over and over. WHY?


http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/10...sa-canada.html


It is the same for nearly every car maker in the luxury car space. Worldwide growth is made in China, not the U.S. market for 99% of luxury car makers in this upper space of the market. All the high end makers took a big hit after 2007-2008, Mercedes included and they still haven't reached those heights again this country. Again, worldwide growth is in China and Russia, and that is where Bentley, Rolls and the rest get their "explosive growth" from , not the U.S. market. Yeah they are growing again, but again , they aren't at per-recession levels.



What in the world are you trying to say here, do you even know? A S, CL or SL or coming S Coupe is supposed to be less expensive than those specialty cars, why would Mercedes price themselves out the market by chasing smaller volumes of those cars? You make NO SENSE.

M