K-A

That first article is hardly a credible answer to "whether if". But there's some interesting stuff I'm learning on the forum. Seems too far fetched for the current generation. But I bet it's being factored in for future generations and Musk assumes that if he had the powder of a, say $100B+ company (i.e.if Tesla can get there), it can be feasible. In reality, it was obviously a marketing demonstration to instill confidence in the future convenience prospects of EV's.

I wish Apple would buy Tesla. They can use a visionary like Musk to pick up the slack Steve left, have more cash than anyone can fathom burning a hole in their pocket, and together they'd fill pivotal voids. Together they'd be unstoppable.

Quadcammer

Disagree with just about everything you've said.

this thread was about an S63. You want to talk golf carts, make a thread for it.

I do not put Tesla's level of engineering anywhere near Mercedes.

My point is that you seem to prefer the model S to the S-class, and thats fine. Instead of complaining how crude the S-class is in comparison (it isn't), go buy a Tesla and enjoy yourself. obviously your mind is made up, but trying to convince others that you're right is a waste of everyone's time.

WEBSRFR

Oh my god no I agree with pretty much everything you've said but I hope Tesla is never acquired by Apple. Just about the one thing that will ensure that I will not buy a Tesla would be an Apple acquisition.

I am in software development and love technology. There's a significant mass of those who love technology but don't want anything to do with Apple products. It has to do with the kind of company Apple is and how they control every aspect of how you can use their products. As someone in the tech industry, I prefer Tesla's approach to technology where the focus is on the technology and getting to the hands of consumers whether it is via Tesla or another company.

Elon has said many times how he wants car propulsion to go electric and that is his main goal. He has said he is less concerned about whether that is because someone buys a Tesla or a different electric car. I respect, appreciate, and want to support a company based on such ethos. And now compare that to Steve Jobs who threw a hissy fit over Android and vowed to fight a "holy war" and go "thermo nuclear" to destroy Android when Google decided to innovate the smartphone concept.

With Steve gone and Apple's quarterly iOS market share heading to an ever smaller percentage of the market share, apple's best days are behind them. Tesla is better off if they stick to what they are doing with Musk in charge.

Tesla's approach is anathema to how Apple operates. For 5+ years Apple claimed that 3.5-4" was the perfect size of a smartphone and no one wanted a larger screen. It took 5 years of loosing market share to admit they were wrong and the upcoming iPhone will finally have a larger screen. Contrast that to Musk's attitude during his recent town hall in Oslo with Tesla customers. When someone claimed the seats were not comfortable, he agreed and detailed how they are going to fix it. When a sound engineer complained the audio system could be better, he asked for the person's business card so they can talk to him about what they could do to improve it. You'd never see that with Apple's corporate culture.

If Tesla is going to be acquired, I'd rather they be acquired by Mercedes than Apple.

WEBSRFR

Actually this whole discussion started when someone said that they could not believe someone would rather want to buy a Model S instead and I just pointed out how that's not such a far fetched thought and I gave my reasoning for it.

You seem to have a hard time grasping an opinion that is different than yours in a public car forums where people talk about cars. Comparisons to other vehicles available has always been a part of car discussions on these forums the last 8 years I have been on these forums.

Tesla's electric powertrain engineering is generation or two ahead of Mercedes. As a Mercedes customer, I am disappointed with that.

My point is I wish Mercedes had a comparable model to consider.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I merely pointed out facts that were presented that I know to be not factually accurate. Such as the assertion made earlier that Tesla is selling few cars.

As for wasting time, if you consider hearing about other opinions to be a waste of time, you might want to stick to talking to yourself

Quadcammer

You're kidding right? please god tell me you aren't in finance. and oooohhhh nooo, the germs

I'm fine hearing your opinion in an appropriaate thread, but don't think you're changing anyone's mind.

WEBSRFR

I don't think he's kidding. He might have more of a point than you realize. Often times people belittle what they don't understand. Let's come back and check this thread in 5 years to see if you are still laughing

Who said anything about changing anyone's mind? You are obviously not going to change my mind and I'm obviously not going to change your mind so we can agree to disagree.

I was merely pointing out some factual inaccuracies on some previous posts before you got all bent out of shape that someone had a dissenting opinion and facts that are contrary to what you believed.

Quadcammer

wow, another one.

Telsa sold shares for the IPO price. Thats what they received. What the stock does at this point doesn't help them unless they issue more shares.

As for whats happened to their stock price, I've benefitted from it. I still have zero faith in the company or jackass musk

Whats the point of your whole diatribe? why are you trying to be captain save a tesla?

Whattya say we stick to the discussion of the S63.

Wolfman

I would love to read more about Tesla and future e-cars in some off-topic thread for right now, just not here.

Coincidently, Mercedes has just announced the electric B-Class and it's coming to the US this year. They are now being manufactured in Germany.

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/future...Electric_Drive

This will be a rarity in the US, but its much more interesting for the rest of the world due to fuel costs and shorter distances between destinations.

WEBSRFR

Oh so now the high stock price for Tesla is somehow bad for Tesla?

Ah how very grown up of you to call someone a "jackass." I see now there is no point in engaging in any intelligent or civilized discourse with someone of your level so this is the last time I will engage you on your thoughts about Tesla or Musk.

Let me just say that there are only 3 entities on this planet that can launch a payload to the International Space Station. One is Russia, and then there is the United States, and the third such entity is Elon Musk and his company SpaceX. SpaceX now has more lower earth orbit launch capacity than any other country on this planet.

And somehow you are the genius who knows everything and Elon Musk is the Jackass. Looked at yourself in a mirror lately?

Diatribe? I've politely pointed out a few inaccuracies and misconceptions about Tesla. It is you who seems to hit a nerve when anyone brings up something that is contrary to your understanding of the world.

As for saving Tesla, it has more to do with my allergy to ignorance and misinformation than anything to do with Tesla. If Mercedes had a comparable car, I would likely have never even researched Tesla as much as I have. I have an affinity to Mercedes and wish I didn't have to go to another manufacturer to buy a modern performance car. That's the crux of my posts on this subject.

Great idea! So when is Mercedes going to have a version of the S63 that is all electric with a range of 300 miles?

MDMercedesGuy

I'm noticing a lot of Tesla enthusiasts have a fervent view of the brand, and that is great. They also tend to cloud up whatever thread they come up in on a board focused around ICE vehicles like there is something to prove...

Musk's attitude is one of arrogance, and the few times you are pointing out are exceptions rather than rules. I want to like the man, however there are several sides to him that tend to balance everything out.

DC may be their #2 market, and it definitely shows - Teslas are everywhere, and the styling is aging just as gracefully as a Hyundai Sonata IMO. I see at least 5 a day around North Bethesda (where I live, which is not Rockville, since we're being so factual here).

nyca

That battery swap station thing - will never happen. Too many logistical issues with doing that. Also, you read some of the idea on the owners forum about "why can't I have an extended range battery pack I can add to the car when I have to go on a long trip". Well, what does it weigh? How is the owner supposed to store and install/remove a heavy extended range LiOn pack in their garage, and safely plug it into their car as needed. Again, I don't think the logistics will permit that - the first owner who burns his house down storing/installing his extended range LiOn battery pack - the resulting lawsuit will end that program.

The supercharger stations are a decent idea (I doubt they will be free forever), and the range on the cars will increase as technology advances to provide better battery packs. I don't think any of the other ideas will see the light of day.

WEBSRFR

We will find out if the battery swap station will happen or not but it is remarkable they designed it so that it can be swapped in just a few minutes. For the driving I do, I don't foresee needing this capability but the video that was posted is just a proof of concept of being able to do that if the market demands that feature.

Yes, anyone can ponder why can't I do this or that but storing a battery pack at home and swapping it out at home is as much nonsense as the concept of swapping out an engine at home. The Model S battery pack accounts for about 30% of the over 5,000 lb weight of the car and the amount of electricity it stores is pretty significant. It would be no more practical or reasonable than a customer changing an engine in a car at home. So your whole vision of someone burning down a house while doing that is pretty moot...

The ideas are there to demonstrate the technical feasibility of new concepts. I'm sure they will implement these concepts as needed by a growing market.

The Supercharger concept is here to stay and I agree it is a good idea. They are not exactly free though. With the lower end vehicles, you pay $2,500 for the privilege of being able to use them and they are important for long distance driving. People have traveled across the country in them.

I've heard rumors that future Mercedes EVs may be able to use the Tesla superchargers. Wonder if that would be the case for the B class, which is essentially using a Tesla battery pack.

I also completely agree with battery packs increasing in range. We are still in the very early stages of electric vehicle battery technology and I'm sure it is just a matter of time before 400-500 mile battery packs are available. Would be pretty sweet if you can get such a high capacity battery pack with the interior refinements of a Mercedes S class!

Jason B

So, what do you do when you want to take a trip to Boston from PA that takes 8 hours. Where to you charge it at, and it takes 45 min?

And when is the midsize model coming out. Stock is $200 a share, but that midsize could make things spike.

K-A

"Golf Carts"? You've lost even more credibility on the subject. You probably haven't ever driven a Tesla, and even if you say you do, anyone who really has probably won't believe you. Tesla's level of engineering in the past few years has largely surpassed Mercedes. Mercedes isn't doing anything nearly as innovative. Of course, every product is a compromise of sorts, and Tesla compromises more on the finer fit/finish/details in comparison.

You realize that Daimler INVESTED in Tesla to GAIN from Tesla's innovations, right? They provided support to Tesla's business, financially, gave them some Mercedes plastic parts for the interior, in exchange for actual innovation. I.e, Tesla is the one giving Mercedes their expertise here, not the other way around. Expect to see a lot more of TESLA in Mercedes in the future, as Mercedes invested in them purely to gain from them and hedge for the impending EV takeover.

Ohhh, no!!!! Please don't let them get acquired by Mercedes. Every brand other than Mercedes that Daimlier picks up, turns to shizz. Mercedes is known to be how you describe Apple as well, i.e arrogant, stuck in their ways, slow to adapt sometimes, etc. Mercedes is a great car company, but I think even though I don't like what Apple has done since Jobs' devastating passing, they still are the pinnacle of quality and success in the technology and design space. There's a level of high quality, disruptive, innovative, fresh and focused culture that still resides within Apple's bloodline (i.e not lost yet, hopefully won't be, but I think they need to start kicking up dust instead of seeming like they're taking a long break since Steve's passing). Daimler would be the worst acquisition for Tesla, in fact, any ICE-heavy car maker would be, as nobody is moving at the EV pace of Tesla, and they'd probably bleed Tesla dry whilst trying to take their EV innovations, yet at the same time have a reason for Tesla to not succeed "too much" as they'd be a thread to the parent company's bread and butter cars.

Fact is, Jobs, Musk, these are leaders, geniuses in their own right. Guys like these come rarely, and they earn a certain arrogance that allows them to tell the consumer "we know better than you". It takes a real "boss" to be able to say that and succeed at it i.e back it up (that's the only way you can disrupt, as every righteous revolution had a larger hoard of people kicking and screaming against it, and/or not understanding it. Every product Jobs launched was met with laughs from Microsoft and press, only to have the joke turned on all them). Consumers are sheep, and look at how watered down companies get when they let the consumer run them (into the ground). When someone knows what they're doing, it's like an artist, let them do their thing and whether or not they acknowledge their faults (which they certainly will have), and DO change those via admitting it's necessary, is when the truth comes out about whether or not they can maintain future relevance and/or dominance.

Your posts remind me of what people in future generations look back at and thing "wow, people were that against what has become commonplace today". Like the modern equivalent to "earth is not round!".

Maybe it makes you feel tough to pump gas, but simply observing the trends of where society is going, it's a dying task, and rest assured, maybe even in your lifetime, it'll be close to phased out.

WEBSRFR

Hey Jason, the I-95 corridor is very well represented in the Supercharger network and from what I have monitored on the Tesla forums, plenty of people are driving up and down I-95 using the superchargers without issues.

So we are talking about driving for about 400 miles fro PA to Boston. You can add about 170 miles of range in 30 minutes for free at a Supercharger so if you start with a full charge, you can make the trip easily with one or two supercharger stops with each stop being about 20-30 minutes. Likely one supercharger stop of 40 minutes will suffice. You can see the supercharger map on the following page and by next year they are supposed to have a supercharger every 150 miles:

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

If a future all electric S class were to use the Tesla battery packs, like the upcoming B class, maybe certain Mercedes vehicles will also have access to the same Tesla Superchargers given Mercedes' relationship with Tesla...

You are not limited to Superchargers though. From what I gather, the trend is to have charging stations much like the same way we have gas stations everywhere. Only the cost would be about 1/3 for a fill up. Chargepoint and Plugshare lists thousands of locations across the country where you can charge your car.

http://www.chargepoint.com/
http://www.plugshare.com/

Already there is robust coverage across the country and this technology is just getting started.

The next vehicle coming out in 2015 is the Model X, which is more of an SUV. The Model E is their mass market car for about $40K and that is expected to come out about 2-3 years after that. I agree the stock will spike when that happens. I regret not buying any shares and the current valations does seem high for me to jump in

The real question is when is Mercedes going to have a real S63-esque no compromise electric car. Clearly the technology exists now for over 300 mile range and 0-60 in the sub 3 second range. When is Mercedes going to package that into a no-compromise electric car?

TestnDoc

This thread has seriously derailed....lol...I'd personally take an internal combustion biturbo S63 over a battery car any day, but that's just me. God created the oil for us to use. Praise Him for that.

K-A

I've bought and sold TSLA many times as well, but I'm weary at these levels simply because of the market cap size. Though I have plenty of momentum/overvalued/high growth names, Tesla's sheer market cap becomes a tough proposition (i.e it's easier IMO to justify buying an overvalued stick that's valued at a total of say, $8 Billion.

My favorite Musk play has been SCTY (Solar City) for a while now. I think that stock has potential to soar higher than Tesla on a growth scale from here, and best part is that it's under the radar. TSLA has become very cultish and over-watched, which is okay as long as the company executes flawlessly (as AAPL did during their high growth days), but as we saw with AAPL, when too many people obsess about one stock, they'll make up problems that don't exist, and it can go potentially wrong. SCTY is a stock that runs up when Tesla does, but flies under the radar, best mix.

I had a buy in for TSLA at $188 the other day, the stock happened to practically bottom right there and then go back up above $200. Currently looks like I shouldn't have removed that buy....

K-A

Please tell me this is a satire.

If "God created" oil, then he did it to make Arabs rich and destroy the environment.

TestnDoc

Certainly not satirical at all. The LORD did indeed create All things, including oil. Oil doesn't destroy the environment. Oil and it's byproducts make many things possible in this day and age, particularly travel and transportation, and the ability to drive cars like the S63. I thank and praise Him for His gifts!

K-A

Oh god. Let's keep the crazy out of this thread, please. This stuff shouldn't come up in car forums, to say the least.

TestnDoc

Crazy? Personal attacks aren't necessary, and are, quite frankly, rather juvenile. Certainly you use oil, by the looks of the fossil fuel burning cars in your sig. I dont understand why you be offended by something you apparently don't believe in, namely the divine creator of All things, Yahweh God.

K-A

Please, after your random contribution, let's not hurl the word "juvenile" around.

We're talking science, facts and business. There's really no place for intangible belief systems to enter for the sake of this argument.

It's just too easy to come in swinging with statements like that to make you feel okay about whatever you're doing. For example: "God created Elon Musk so he can create Tesla to kill off Satan's oil and gass guzzling vehicular creations, therefore supporting Tesla is supporting God".

Wow, that is easy!

I still think you're Stephen Colbert on the satire tip.

Wolfman

The thread certainly has derailed enough already, so let's keep any religious comments out of it.

TestnDoc

Nope, I'm not Steveo. I agree, we are talking science and facts. Oil is good, and God made it for mankind to use . While I don't agree with your stance on the divine (agnostic I guess?), no true Christian would ever deny that you have the right to believe what you believe, and should be free to do so. But as intricately designed as a Tesla or Mercedes vehicle is, it pales in comparison to the human body, on a macro and/or micro level. The human body, in addition to the rest of creation and the universe in which we reside, screams of a divine Creator. Everything has a creator, your car, your watch, your clothes, and you.

Anyway, give me an S63. I'll take Telsa call options too

K-A

Let's just stick to the facts, sciences and such in this thread, it's a good convo about the ICE VS EV situation, IMO. Religion is best kept personal anyway, otherwise it becomes conversations like this. The "shouting from the rooftops" approach isn't good for either "cause", if you ask me.

But I will say that if oil was created by a divine "being", everyone knows that it'd be Allah.