Lease vs. Finance??
07-30-2014, 10:18 PM
#101
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07-30-2014, 11:47 PM
#102
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I think you need to go online and look up some pay calculators and budget worksheets.
With a 200k salary, your take home paycheck in say VA is as follows....
Monthly Gross Pay $16,666.67
Federal Withholding $3,222.42
Social Security $1,033.33
Medicare $241.67
Virginia $922.50
Net Pay $11,246.75
so 11246 net!
then minus house expense mortgage/rent/insurance/hoa/etc (2000-4000)
Health insurance 500+
kids in school 0-3000
cable/phone/cell/electricity/gas/water/utilities 1000+
groceries/eating out 800
misc goods .. walmart/costco/clothing/ etc 1000
then if you have anything left you can spend it on the S class or retirement savings or a vacation or life insurance
but you don't have 100k left in discretionary income for sure
07-31-2014, 02:05 AM
#103
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Sd.Kfz 182
I was gonna send you my 2013 tax return in pdf file but drsaab laid it out pretty well.
07-31-2014, 02:10 AM
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Sd.Kfz 182
07-31-2014, 02:25 AM
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Sd.Kfz 182
... just have to wait for new Illinois lease regulations to become effective on January 1, 2015 so I don't have to pay tax on the whole vehicle price (so stupid). I mean even now it would still make sense to lease but with the new law it would be stupid not to take advantage of it!
07-31-2014, 03:45 AM
#106
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Sd.Kfz 182
I don't think you can read too much into a person's financial situation by what they drive, at least not until you get to the super cars, and even then it varies considerably. No more than you can ascertain with any degree of certainty their motive for purchasing such a car. I would venture to say that most S class owners lease and most of those are business related where a lease makes even more sense.
Currently, I own an ML350 but am considering an S class for 2016 when the ML's warranty runs out. A "typical" Mercedes owner seems to be like me in some ways and some ways much different. I was fortunate to retire shortly after my 46th birthday (I will soon be 66). I bought a house (cash) on a golf course, have no wife, no children or heirs to speak of and have not owed a dime to anyone since well before the day I retired. Credit cards are paid off immediately as a matter of honor more than necessity or common sense. Most of my investments are (and have been for years) stock related with only a quarter of my net assets in cash (yes, even at my age because that is all I would require to live out my life). I dabbled in real estate investments early on in life but no more. Not very exciting I admit but that is the extent of it.
The bottom line is I can't spend all my money and end up donating freely to causes close to my heart. I am not cheap by any means but neither am I excessive or extravagant because I remember the hard times when my parents came to this country from Italy after WWII. We only had one bedroom for our family and we struggled for years renting with two other families a small house in NY. Ten years later we moved to our first real home and you would think we struck gold, an indeed we did! You remember that kind of experience no matter how well and lucky your own life turns out. Do I now consider myself wealthy? Of course, but only when compared to how I grew up - that is the only point of reference that has any real meaning to me in that regard. Everything else is superficial. To those naive enough to think true "wealth" should be compared in terms to others, well, to a man living in a box under a city bridge I suppose I am "wealthy". To a man like Perot, Gates or Forbes, I am mere pocket change. When compared to others "wealth" really is all relative, isn't it? It becomes truly meaningful only when you compare your own situation with your past and what you have achieved in your own life, not in comparison to what others have achieved.
I fall into that fairly small percentage of people who won't fool with leases not because it does not make sense from a strictly financial sense (it might, it might not depending on how the figures fall and other collateral factors) but because of the lessons learned in life and what those lessons taught. Simply put, I was taught you work hard and save until you have enough to buy what you want - and that it is far better not to owe than it is to owe, at least as a general rule and real estate notwithstanding.
Financial advisers will cringe at these notions because of a mind set that says you can do more with your money investing with them. Again, maybe, maybe not. Nonetheless, most people would be far better off if they would adhere to that general rule.
Currently, I own an ML350 but am considering an S class for 2016 when the ML's warranty runs out. A "typical" Mercedes owner seems to be like me in some ways and some ways much different. I was fortunate to retire shortly after my 46th birthday (I will soon be 66). I bought a house (cash) on a golf course, have no wife, no children or heirs to speak of and have not owed a dime to anyone since well before the day I retired. Credit cards are paid off immediately as a matter of honor more than necessity or common sense. Most of my investments are (and have been for years) stock related with only a quarter of my net assets in cash (yes, even at my age because that is all I would require to live out my life). I dabbled in real estate investments early on in life but no more. Not very exciting I admit but that is the extent of it.
The bottom line is I can't spend all my money and end up donating freely to causes close to my heart. I am not cheap by any means but neither am I excessive or extravagant because I remember the hard times when my parents came to this country from Italy after WWII. We only had one bedroom for our family and we struggled for years renting with two other families a small house in NY. Ten years later we moved to our first real home and you would think we struck gold, an indeed we did! You remember that kind of experience no matter how well and lucky your own life turns out. Do I now consider myself wealthy? Of course, but only when compared to how I grew up - that is the only point of reference that has any real meaning to me in that regard. Everything else is superficial. To those naive enough to think true "wealth" should be compared in terms to others, well, to a man living in a box under a city bridge I suppose I am "wealthy". To a man like Perot, Gates or Forbes, I am mere pocket change. When compared to others "wealth" really is all relative, isn't it? It becomes truly meaningful only when you compare your own situation with your past and what you have achieved in your own life, not in comparison to what others have achieved.
I fall into that fairly small percentage of people who won't fool with leases not because it does not make sense from a strictly financial sense (it might, it might not depending on how the figures fall and other collateral factors) but because of the lessons learned in life and what those lessons taught. Simply put, I was taught you work hard and save until you have enough to buy what you want - and that it is far better not to owe than it is to owe, at least as a general rule and real estate notwithstanding.
Financial advisers will cringe at these notions because of a mind set that says you can do more with your money investing with them. Again, maybe, maybe not. Nonetheless, most people would be far better off if they would adhere to that general rule.
Been a fact you retired at 46 I'm assuming you were a government employee. I'm 42 and just getting going. It seems there are a lot of differences between us but I respect your point of view. I would probably even agree with your position that been on a structured income it wouldn't make much sense to lease: the benefit of retaining liquid cash negates by a uncomfortable fact that you have to rent things. But then again - if 3/4 of your assets are invested in stocks wouldn't it make more sense not to freeze $100,000 of your assets and instead make them work for you
After reading all these threads I still can't figure out why would anyone prefer buy to lease except only the fact that you want to keep the car for a very long time with intention to drive the car without making any payments. But then again service guy called me today to inform that my daughters 2007 Honda Accord (which is paid off) is in need of a new front bushings and it will cost me $565! Isn't lease payment on same brand new under factory warranty car $140/mo?
And the argument that "I don't want to rent anything" has no meaning to me hence everything we posses in this life is only temporary until it will be passed onto a new owner.
Last edited by schuk; 07-31-2014 at 03:49 AM.
07-31-2014, 09:29 AM
#107
For you older Gentlemen, Muffin = troll Stop feeding the troll. From his posts, hes only interested in your financial status.
All you have to know is that in order to get a new S-class lease or buy, at minimum you need to make $2500 month give or take not including deposit, etc. So yes, technically someone with no expenses, bills or mortages who makes 30k a year can afford it. Only technically because no one will finance or do a lease with someone who is in that income bracket. If you are retired and live off social security, perhaps the government will pay for your S-class.
All you have to know is that in order to get a new S-class lease or buy, at minimum you need to make $2500 month give or take not including deposit, etc. So yes, technically someone with no expenses, bills or mortages who makes 30k a year can afford it. Only technically because no one will finance or do a lease with someone who is in that income bracket. If you are retired and live off social security, perhaps the government will pay for your S-class.
07-31-2014, 01:46 PM
#111
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Does anyone have good accounting justification for writing off entire lease?
My accountant saying not a good idea to write off over than $9k/yr, unless I'm fully invested in the car business. I see many guys(ie. real estate) who do write off entire lease, but I'm looking for creative but legitimate suggestions.
Thx.
PL
My accountant saying not a good idea to write off over than $9k/yr, unless I'm fully invested in the car business. I see many guys(ie. real estate) who do write off entire lease, but I'm looking for creative but legitimate suggestions.
Thx.
PL
07-31-2014, 02:07 PM
#112
Senior Member
Does anyone have good accounting justification for writing off entire lease?
My accountant saying not a good idea to write off over than $9k/yr, unless I'm fully invested in the car business. I see many guys(ie. real estate) who do write off entire lease, but I'm looking for creative but legitimate suggestions.
Thx.
PL
My accountant saying not a good idea to write off over than $9k/yr, unless I'm fully invested in the car business. I see many guys(ie. real estate) who do write off entire lease, but I'm looking for creative but legitimate suggestions.
Thx.
PL
07-31-2014, 03:31 PM
#113
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HUH? really?
I think you need to go online and look up some pay calculators and budget worksheets.
With a 200k salary, your take home paycheck in say VA is as follows....
Monthly Gross Pay $16,666.67
Federal Withholding $3,222.42
Social Security $1,033.33
Medicare $241.67
Virginia $922.50
Net Pay $11,246.75
so 11246 net!
then minus house expense mortgage/rent/insurance/hoa/etc (2000-4000)
Health insurance 500+
kids in school 0-3000
cable/phone/cell/electricity/gas/water/utilities 1000+
groceries/eating out 800
misc goods .. walmart/costco/clothing/ etc 1000
then if you have anything left you can spend it on the S class or retirement savings or a vacation or life insurance
but you don't have 100k left in discretionary income for sure
I think you need to go online and look up some pay calculators and budget worksheets.
With a 200k salary, your take home paycheck in say VA is as follows....
Monthly Gross Pay $16,666.67
Federal Withholding $3,222.42
Social Security $1,033.33
Medicare $241.67
Virginia $922.50
Net Pay $11,246.75
so 11246 net!
then minus house expense mortgage/rent/insurance/hoa/etc (2000-4000)
Health insurance 500+
kids in school 0-3000
cable/phone/cell/electricity/gas/water/utilities 1000+
groceries/eating out 800
misc goods .. walmart/costco/clothing/ etc 1000
then if you have anything left you can spend it on the S class or retirement savings or a vacation or life insurance
but you don't have 100k left in discretionary income for sure
Also the government encourages you to get married. When married you will pay $8,045.75 less on taxes when making 200k.
On a personal note: I can't wait for a flat tax! (will never happen). It kills me that people earning billions only pay capital gains of 15%-20% when I pay close to 28% of my income between me and my wife on our total take home income.
To give you some perspective I'm only 25 and my wife 23. We both got out of school and got good paying jobs in the tech sector. Wife is a programmer and I'm a network security engineer. We could afford a new s class but I just love value! A fully loaded s550 at $145k will be 50-60k in 3 years. I can find the car CPO with low miles and have the same experience for a fraction of the price well putting more money into ROTH 401k etc.
The reason why you see many older owners of the s class is because when you are young the value of your $ is more and there are better things to do with it. Also most kids my age in an over 6 figure income household are still living with mom and dad
P.S so now you know why your statement of you should have 100k liquid left over is just silly. As after tax to save 100k liquid you would have to pay all your bills on 33k. May I ask how old you are?
Last edited by icebeam; 07-31-2014 at 03:36 PM.
07-31-2014, 03:57 PM
#114
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2014 S550, 2011 E350 Cabriolet, Asgard Mothership
With retirement, housing, education ( you and future kids), unless a 25 year old is a trust fund baby, no way you buy an S class new. It's not about can you swing the payment. I believe you can afford a given car when you don't even have to think about the $1500 payment. And NEVER finance a car for more than 3 years. Why pay the interest? I know some people want to keep up with the Jones, but the entire premise of the question of affordability for $100K+ cars is silly. Sort of if you have to ask the price…
Bottom line, whatever you pay should not be anything you will miss or sweat paying. Then, you know you can afford it. Unless you never want to save for retirement, or travel or any of the other things the lifestyle of an S class owner affords. I know that's pompous, but if you are making less than $200K and on your own, maybe this car is not for you yet. But keep doing better and soon. Or go the CPO route in 2 years.
Bottom line, whatever you pay should not be anything you will miss or sweat paying. Then, you know you can afford it. Unless you never want to save for retirement, or travel or any of the other things the lifestyle of an S class owner affords. I know that's pompous, but if you are making less than $200K and on your own, maybe this car is not for you yet. But keep doing better and soon. Or go the CPO route in 2 years.
07-31-2014, 04:51 PM
#115
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With retirement, housing, education ( you and future kids), unless a 25 year old is a trust fund baby, no way you buy an S class new. It's not about can you swing the payment. I believe you can afford a given car when you don't even have to think about the $1500 payment. And NEVER finance a car for more than 3 years. Why pay the interest? I know some people want to keep up with the Jones, but the entire premise of the question of affordability for $100K+ cars is silly. Sort of if you have to ask the price…
Bottom line, whatever you pay should not be anything you will miss or sweat paying. Then, you know you can afford it. Unless you never want to save for retirement, or travel or any of the other things the lifestyle of an S class owner affords. I know that's pompous, but if you are making less than $200K and on your own, maybe this car is not for you yet. But keep doing better and soon. Or go the CPO route in 2 years.
Bottom line, whatever you pay should not be anything you will miss or sweat paying. Then, you know you can afford it. Unless you never want to save for retirement, or travel or any of the other things the lifestyle of an S class owner affords. I know that's pompous, but if you are making less than $200K and on your own, maybe this car is not for you yet. But keep doing better and soon. Or go the CPO route in 2 years.
Last edited by icebeam; 07-31-2014 at 05:02 PM.
08-01-2014, 01:34 AM
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08-01-2014, 02:15 AM
#119
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08-03-2014, 07:12 PM
#122
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2009 SL600, 2015 Lexus RX450h, 2014 S550
On a personal note: I can't wait for a flat tax! (will never happen). It kills me that people earning billions only pay capital gains of 15%-20% when I pay close to 28% of my income between me and my wife on our total take home income.
To give you some perspective I'm only 25 and my wife 23.
To give you some perspective I'm only 25 and my wife 23.
Don't fall for that myth that you're paying more in taxes than millionaires and billionaires. As a percentage, possibly. As in actual cash amount extremely doubtful. If your taxable income is $100K after deductions, you're paying an "effective" tax rate between 20%-25%, ($20K-$25K). If the millionaire made $1M in realized capital gains his effective tax rate is 20% just like you. But his tax bill is $200K and he may still be affected by the AMT tax as well.
Anyone can get into the capital gains category by just investing. I started out at age 17 when making only $288 a month in the military during the Vietnam war by investing in US Savings bonds. My financial goal was to one day make all my income through capital gains. I've succeeded by 1998 and retired at age 43 from the public sector without any pension or debt.
08-12-2014, 06:16 PM
#123
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2020 S560,14 ml350, 03 sl55, silver, pano, slr cams, evo headers, lsd, 2019 s63 cab.
Priced up a s550 at 119,600 plus tax and tags with my colors and specs to order and have one dealer offering 10k discount. Beats out euro delivery discount. Cant nail down lease amounts until car arrives in two months. Looks like the other dealers cant touch this deal. I will let you know how it plays out after i visit the dealer to sign up.
Anybody else seen this discount?
Anybody else seen this discount?
Last edited by theboogers; 08-12-2014 at 06:18 PM. Reason: Left out something
08-13-2014, 10:10 AM
#124
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Sd.Kfz 182
Priced up a s550 at 119,600 plus tax and tags with my colors and specs to order and have one dealer offering 10k discount. Beats out euro delivery discount. Cant nail down lease amounts until car arrives in two months. Looks like the other dealers cant touch this deal. I will let you know how it plays out after i visit the dealer to sign up.
Anybody else seen this discount?
Anybody else seen this discount?
08-13-2014, 10:59 AM
#125
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2020 S560,14 ml350, 03 sl55, silver, pano, slr cams, evo headers, lsd, 2019 s63 cab.
Since i am ordering the car to my specs and it will take 2 months i expect it is not a 2014? It will be titled a 2014. Here on the forum after july mercedes usually calls it a 2015 model?
