yo1234

Just got my 2015 S600 with 7000 kms back from dealer today after 3 weeks trying to fix a whining noise at low speed and low revs (500 - 1500 rpm) and wind noise (see separate post).

The dealer acknowledges the noise and agrees that the noise is not audible on my other S600 as well as two other S600's it has in stock.

However, the dealer's formal response now is that the whining noise is "acceptable and within spec". I think that's nonsense.

I've attached an MP3 clip of the noise whilst revving the car to 1500 rpm whilst stationary.

I'd appreciate any help with this.

Chucky300

Mine was in for a whine noise too - at 1500 - 2000 rpm.

Turned out to be my ABC Pump. (I have ABC/MBC on my S550)

Give it a shot.

I thought it was the transmission but alas it wasn't.

Mitch Alsup

Seems to me that some sleuthing with a stethoscope would isolate the whining to the actual component.

Streamliner

When I test drove a new Maybach a few months ago, I posted here about the whining being quite noticeable and irritating at low speeds. Some folks on this board called me a "whiner" for even mentioning it. I believe that all S Class cars, with the possible exception of the AMG models, should be absolutely silent.

yo1234

Thank you for the responses.

Vehicle is back at the dealership for attention. They're trying the lower steering shaft replacement as per Bulletin LI46.10-P-061374 - thanks to Konigstiger for making this info available.

Will advise whether this works. Hoping it does!

Chucky300

Got the car back. Abc pump was indeed the issue for the whine or hum.

No idea why it only sounded at 1500-2000 rpm. At any speed or gear. I feel like it would be a constant sound.

Goes against logic .

yo1234

Update on my S600 whining noise: Dealer replaced lower steering shaft but noise still persists. Dealer says it can't be the ABC pump as noise is audible even if all drive belts are removed. Not sure if Dealer will to revert to "it's acceptable and within spec" nonsense again.

Chucky300 - happy to hear that your car has been fixed. Enjoy!

yo1234

Latest. Not good news.

After working on my car for 5 weeks, I have basically now been advised that the whining noise is acceptable and within spec. I have received a letter from Mercedes Benz South Africa's Customer Relationship manager advising that "the engine sound variation that is audible from one unit to the next may be attributed to the minute engine tolerances during the manufacturing and assembly process".

The Dealer Principal and Managing Director both confirm (in writing) that this 2015 S600 whines and is generally noisier than my other 2015 S600, but say there's nothing further they can do.

I've tested two other S600's in the dealer's showroom, and neither of them have the whining noise.

So if you're in the market for an S Class, test for the whining noise before you drive the car out of the dealership (engine must be hot). I have one S600 that's an absolute pleasure to drive and another that makes my blood boil!!!

Contrast the response from Mercedes Benz South Africa to the launch blurb for the W222 S Class...

“A subdued, scarcely perceptible level of noise in the interior of the S-Class was the objective when configuring and coordinating the sound insulation measures.Particular attention was paid to transmitted engine noise and road roar. During the acoustic optimisation work, the focus was both on lowering the sound pressure level and on achieving the well-balanced and comfortable overall sound perception that is a hallmark of the S-Class.To ensure that engine noise is perceived as refined and unobtrusive in the interior, the firewall insulation was extended into the side areas of the A-pillars. Additional sealing levels were also added in the form of high-quality injection-moulded components.A major contribution to the reduction in transmitted engine noise was made by improved insulation in the transmission tunnel area, as well as a modular engine partition made of plastic."

yo1234

I've now posted videos on YouTube of the noise levels in my 2 X S600's.

• Here's the link to my whining S600 driving around:
  Road test drive in 2015 Mercedes S600 with whining noise between idle and 2000 rpm - YouTube
• Here's the link to my silent S600 driving around on the exact same route:
  Road test drive in 2015 Mercedes-Benz S600 - as quiet and refined as it should be - YouTube
• Here's the link to my whining S600 being revved in my garage:
• 2015 Mercedes Benz S-Class S600 whining noise demo - YouTube
• Here's the link to my silent S600 being revved in my garage:
• 2015 Mercedes Benz S-Class S600 quiet and refined - demo - YouTube

Any thoughts on what could be causing the whining noise? Does your car whine? Do you think the whining is acceptable in an S Class?

To summarise:

• The whining starts as soon as the engine reaches normal operating temperature.
• The dealership says the whining continued even when they ran the engine with all the drive belts removed. So they're ruling out the possibility that it relates to pulleys.
• Even ignoring the whining, the car in question is generally more noisy than my other S600 and other S600's that I have tested. So it could well be a sound insulation issue.
• Both cars sound the same if you listen to them from outside the car, or pop the hood to listen to the engines.

The car has spent 5 weeks at the dealership. They tried to fix it, then concluded that it was normal. See my previous post.

Any help will be greatly appreciated - as MB South Africa and my dealership aren't prepared to do anything further.

marthyh

Daimler Benz in Stuttgart:
https://www.daimler.com/dccom/0-5-1037142-49-1333344-1-0-0-0-0-0-92-7145-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html



That is what I would do..

Good luck !!!

greglig

Hi yo1234, did you get any further with the dealer on this? I think it's very poor service especially for a customer that has purchased 2 top of the line vehicles.

My guess is they just don't want to acknowledge that it's a major assembly ie Engine which equals replacement or lots and lots of work to repair. Maby something like a timing chain or timing chain gear etc. On a V8 I think you can getaway with access while the engine is in the engine bay but on the V12 model it's engine, trans and front sub frame out through the bottom.
I would not let this go as you might end up with a vehicle that has major problem when the warranty expires (if you plan to keep it that long) then Mercedes deny all responsibility.

Another idea would be to go to an independent Mercedes specialist and just get an opinion. The boys at the dealer may be really excellent when it comes to general servicing but odd stuff like what you have requires a bit more expertise which in a lot of cases dealers tend to lack. This is from my own personal experience working for the trade in Australia.

Cheers.

Nickthegreek

could the noise also be coming from a bad turbo bearing? or maybe transmission pump

Nickthegreek

have a listen to this.

greglig

What I good point. I forgot about the gear pump in the trans. I dont think the 7g-tronic has a pressure test port but it may be possible to feel the Trans cooler lines for any vibration.

Nickthegreek

And it fits the description of making the noise even with accessory belt off. Maybe the tranny was under filled at the factory or the pump was just defective. I would say the OP should take it back and have them inspect the transmission

yo1234

Sorry for not posting/responding to posts - been quite busy.

My dealer arranged a meeting with an MB South Africa after-sales manager. The manager (like all the managers at my dealer) agree that the noise is clearly audible in one of my S600's and not in the other but is stopping short of saying its unacceptable. That's the greatest irritation.

The after-sales manager advised that MB South Africa has tried everything possible to address the noise and has now undertaken to share my video and audio recordings with MB Germany to get further direction on what to do. I'm expecting further feedback this week.

My dealer hadn't bothered to share my video clips with MB South Africa despite me sending the Dealer Principal the you-tube links and suggesting they share it with MB.

yo1234

Greglig, I agree that this is poor service - from a manufacturer that boasts about build quality, product refinement and customer service.

Not only did I purchase 2 S600's in one week, but I also moved from a BMW 760Li and a BMW 750Li. In addition, I've owned 6 other Mercs since 1999, 5 of which were purchased brand new from this dealer - 2008 S65 AMG, 2011 Viano 3.0 Edition 125, 2004 CLK500 Convertible, 2003 E500, 2000 E280 and 1999 E240.

LovinMercedes

I find their behavior very wrong given you bought two of them. You don't spend 5 weeks determining it is within standards. That was only because they couldn't fix what they know is a problem.

They should replace the car. In America, you have laws that protect you. Not sure in your country.

Nickthegreek

Somewhere in your car there's a bad bearing and my bet is that it is the transmission pump bearing. The transmission pump is driven from the engine whether in park, drive, nuetral, reverse or any gear to circulate fluid. That might be why they could hear it even after they took off the belt. Sounds like they did not really want to look into it and tear it apart. If that goes unchecked like that it can have catastrophic effects down the road. I would have them buy it back if they wont inspect it any further.

greglig

Hi yo1234, that's even worse than I imagined. So many vehicles and they still treat you like that. Disgusting is all I can say.

I know this will not help you but it made me laugh when I saw this vehicle in one of my friends workshop. This shows the competence of some dealers.
I think it was a Nissan Navara (or one of the 4WD's) cant remember exactly but the car would run rough and keep turning on the check engine light then set Oxy Sensor mixture codes.
They put 8 engine computers into it (Yes Eight!!), lord knows why - after 2 you can stop. Many catalytic converters and complete exhausts. Countless Oxy Sensors and all sorts of other parts. All in all they threw AU$43,000 dolars at the car in parts (not including labor), we're getting close to the new purchase price of the car at that point.
Eventually they begrudgingly wrote the car off and gave the customer an new car. All it needed was a replacement engine (Maby $10,000 worth) as there was a manufacturing defect that slipped by the quality control at the factory. As it was a work vehicle I'm sure the customer was very happy to be constantly without his car while the dealer f***ed around getting no where.

Also I like your other comment about giving your dealer all the links and information and they just ignored it. There's a surprise.
This is also quite normal operations for dealers. A friend of mine got a new Australian Holden Commodore company car and was forced to take the car to a particular dealer to be serviced as it was under contract.
Anyway there was a problem with the pulley alignment of the power steering pump and it was damaging the serpentine belt.
First two times all they did was replaced the belt. Then my friend found the service bulletin on the "known problem" printed it out and gave it to the service adviser. They said no problem sir we will fix it. He kept giving them printouts and they keep replacing the belt. After the 9th time he got absolutely fed up and went to another dealer that fixed the problem 1st go - all it needed was a shim behind the pump.

Can someone please explain to the the mentality of why this happens? It's totally beyond me and all you get is unhappy customers which is bad for business.

Sorry for the rant.
Cheers.

yo1234

I've now been advised that a very senior technician is being sent from Germany to South Africa to work on my car. That suggests that MB Germany agrees that the noise is not normal. I think that the technician will also look into the wind noise issue on both my cars.

No indication yet on when the technician will arrive, but I'm hoping its pretty soon!

greglig

Ho yo1234, good to hear that something is being done. Hah, sending a tech out from Germany means that they obviously know that something is wrong - potentiality serious. At lease your starting to get a bit better customer service. I would be very interested to hear what they say.

Whats a standard business practice - never admit liability. I think they were hoping you would just go away and not worry too much about it.


Just a side note: I feel your pain with noises that should not be there. Just finished replacing the A/C compressor on my car so it is now nice and quiet like it should be. Previously it was making a awful whine also.

Cheers.

yo1234

Latest update:

The S600 spent another week at the dealership.

On instruction from MB Germany the dealer replaced the timing belt tensioner but this did not help.

A technician from Germany then arrived in Durban to examine the car. After consultation with his colleagues in Germany, they've decided to now replace the gearbox. No idea yet how long this will take.

Whilst I'm happy that they're doing something about it (rather than adopting the MB South Africa stance that the noise was acceptable and due to "minute build tolerances"), it's disappointing that the car needs such a major repair. I can only hope that my dealer's workshop puts the gearbox in with the same quality and precision as one would expect on the production line.

In the meantime the whining noise has definitely been getting worse.

The vehicle has now spent almost 2 out of the 9 months that I've owned it at the dealership.

greglig

That's better some proper motion. Hmm, the noise is getting worse: gee there's a surprise.
It's not that hard to replace the auto with the right setup, it's just time consuming and something I think they would rather not do. The other problem is I am assuming they have the special large trolley/jack to drop the engine/trans down out of the bottom of the car on the premisis otherwise it need to be shipped from another dealer down to them.

Here is a video of how it's done (older model but basically the same):



When you talk about precision and quality it's all down to the dealer and how well the staff are trained and what the management attitude is like.
With a strait replacement like that I think things will be fine but if they were asked to replace the front pump assembly by stripping the auto down that would be a problem - that's where all the care and precision really count.

Some please correct me here as i'm 100% sure but I think it's the first generation of the 9g-tronics auto's on the v12 so there may still be manufacturing problems yet to work out.

I know Mercedes gets a lots of abuse in saying they are no good unreliable etc but other manufacturers are are much worse. The other thing people tend to forget is the mercedes cars are usually many times more complex that other cars and with that complexity there is inherent unreliability due to the fact that there is just more stuff to fail.

Being in south africa I think your familiar with the Australian Ford Falcon? If so they had a problem with the input shaft snapping on the turbo 6 models. Most of the time they refuse to replace the auto on grounds that you were driving the car too hard. Ther real problem was that Ford Australia specified too weak an input shaft when they purchased the auto's from German manufacturer ZF.
A friend of mine is manufacturing update stronger shafts to end the problem as the replacement auto from ford was just the same as the original.

BTW: The input shaft is what transmits engine power from the torque converter to transmission.

Cheers.

greglig

Sorry the video shows the turbo being replaced but you get the general idea.