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Tesla Auto Pilot same technology as Distronic plus on S550?

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Tesla Auto Pilot same technology as Distronic plus on S550?

 
Old 10-19-2015, 11:25 PM
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Tesla Auto Pilot same technology as Distronic plus on S550?

I am curious if Tesla's new auto pilot mode is based on the same technology as Mercedes S550 distronic plus?

If yes, would we get some kind of an udpate so it would be more of an autopilot vs helping to steer?

Thoughts?
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:22 AM
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I would bet the systems are similar given Daimler helped testa in technology. Also there is a video on youtube showing a current non modified w222 doing fully autonomous driving (MB was testing). The video is below. So yes the car is capable IMO but Daimler is waiting for states to allow this type of tech.

I think it's just a matter of time or they will hold out for the W223 to make it a reason to upgrade even if the W222 is capable. They are currently pushing the envelope by saying they will take full responsibility for accidents. http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/au...ccidents-news/




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Old 10-20-2015, 07:26 PM
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yup

it's mostly the same. Only difference is the display, on tesla it shows the lane further ahead with a picture of a car coming towards you as you drive towards it, but all else same...goes nuts when you take your hands off steering wheel for longer then a period of time. It works exactly the same way, and even the same exact cruise stalk/signal stalk/steering column in both cars.

The auto lane change on the tesla seems to work half the time, other half it just hesitates. That feature isn't on the MB from what I gathered...
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Old 10-20-2015, 08:25 PM
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No. It's quite different. The tesla system watches all around the car while the MB system mainly looks at the car in front. It does not seem affected by cars next to you. In curves it will take you on a collision course with the vehicle next to you if you let it. The MB system is a very early beta version- I don't use it often because you look like a seriously drunk driver. In slow traffic it's much better.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:56 PM
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I have driven about 500 miles on autopilot.

They both use mobile eye systems I believe but the Tesla is the first QE3 chip which is the latest chip from them. The Tesla also is a constantly learning system sending data to the mother-ship to make it better over time as more cars drive the same road etc. It will also update in the future to read red lights and stop signs. The S550 has more sensors etc but the Tesla seems to work well with the sensors it has. 1 camera, 12 sonar and a front radar. The MB has a rear radar as well.

On highways it is flawless. You can drive for miles and miles , like 40+ without a nag to hold the wheel. Also lane changes are flawless same way.

Major side roads are ok, not perfect, Single undivided roads need some work still.

The release is supposed to be for highway and its flawless, the rest will improve with software.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:28 PM
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Phrases like not perfect and some work are being a bit generous

Don't get me wrong, MB is far from perfect, too

The fact is all autonomous systems are far from perfect

The first one shows the Model S handling the highway beautifully on its own, offering a smooth and safe ride. At the end of the footage, though, right as the car was pulling off the highway, the steering suddenly snaps to one side.

The second video is far scarier. It shows a Model S driving itself on what looks like a low-traffic country road. The steering jumps to the left yet again, although this time it nearly resulted in a collision with another vehicle (one driving the other way).

http://www.carscoops.com/2015/10/tes...l-but-its.html

Last edited by jenz; 10-20-2015 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:15 AM
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Tesla's Autopilot system is light years ahead of Mercedes' system.
Look at this video that was posted a few days ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CZe...ature=youtu.be

The driver doesn't need to keep hands on the wheel at all. It can drive around some serious corners/turns. It can start going again even when stopped in traffic. It changes lanes on its own when it deems safe.

I love my S class, but the Tesla Autopilot system wins
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:53 AM
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I believe it's only one software upgrade away for the S550 W222 in having that 15 second limit turned off.
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Old 10-21-2015, 03:02 AM
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The mods of a local forum I'm on just did a comparison of the Mercedes Distronic Plus vs Tesla Autopilot. They used an E63S wagon vs a Model S.

http://www.beyond.ca/autopilot-showd...gon/53192.html
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jenz View Post
Phrases like not perfect and some work are being a bit generous

Don't get me wrong, MB is far from perfect, too

The fact is all autonomous systems are far from perfect

The first one shows the Model S handling the highway beautifully on its own, offering a smooth and safe ride. At the end of the footage, though, right as the car was pulling off the highway, the steering suddenly snaps to one side.

The second video is far scarier. It shows a Model S driving itself on what looks like a low-traffic country road. The steering jumps to the left yet again, although this time it nearly resulted in a collision with another vehicle (one driving the other way).

http://www.carscoops.com/2015/10/tes...l-but-its.html

Autopilot is on-ramp to off-ramp and for rush hour traffic currently. The first video is shows no issues till the turn on the off ramp, the whole highway drive has no issues.

The second video is a undivided 1 lane road with hills, curves and glare. The driver said he ignored the "hold wheel alert" and then it went to "grab wheel immediately" alert and beeped and he finally did at the last second. It is not designed for that yet, but performs in those situations ok but not perfect. There are 100 flawless autopilot videos even on roads like that, to this one that has gone viral from a driver who ignores the warnings and uses on a test case road that is not perfected yet. In my experience the speed matters alot more on a 1 lane windy road, If your over the speed limit by too much the car has more failures than if your at speed limit. On the highway this is not an issue.

You should go try it for yourself on the highway and rush hour where it is made to work and it is amazing.
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Old 10-22-2015, 12:09 PM
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What's interesting about the Tesla Autopilot system is that they are doing so much more with less. In terms of sensor coverage, the Mercedes system is vastly superior to the Tesla system. The Mercedes system has rear and side radar which the Tesla system completely lacks.

What the Tesla lacks in sensors, they make up for with software and, um... ***** in that they decided they can develop an onramp to off ramp autopilot system with fewer sensors and no nagging. Like what drsaab said what I like the most about the Tesla Autopilot system is that the system does not nag you. It nags you when it needs you but not otherwise. It will happily drives for 10s of minutes on its own if there are lane markings and the system is used in the way it was intended.

The other day our Tesla pretty much drove the entire distance between DC and Baltimore on its own on I-95, lane changes included. The only time it nagged me was when we passed through a construction zone.

The current Mercedes S Class can technically do what the Tesla does and then some more but it is only held back by software and Mercedes corporate policy. I wonder if there is a way for Mercedes to release a software update to add onramp to off-ramp self driving capability to previously sold S Class vehicles.

What is remarkable about Tesla's approach is that as Tesla improves their self driving technology every Tesla released since October of 2014 will get the latest software and updates.
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Old 10-24-2015, 05:33 PM
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Current S550 auto pilot is crap. On my way to Vegas on Freeway 15, it would work but like others said it makes you look like you're drunk, and a little curve (very little) it would start sliding. Useless in my opinion until they make it better and I am sure they can make it better or at least the same as Tesla's which works much better.

Problem with MB, I doubt they would just do a software update like Tesla would, you would need to buy 2017 model or something.
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Old 10-24-2015, 07:59 PM
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Being able to update the entire car's software and firmware with an over the air update is certainly a benefit with the Tesla system. I just received word that an Autopilot 1.01 update is coming soon with further enhancements to Autopilot along with a feature that uses the experience of the entire Tesla fleet to make the software better. Whenever you intervene or the Tesla autopilot needs you to intervene, Tesla is apparently analyzing those corner cases and making the software smarter.

As I've said before the Mercedes Distronic/Steering Assist hardware is superior to what Tesla has. The difference is software and corporate vision. I bet Mercedes had many meetings and a committee of big wigs decided they are going to enhance and roll out this technology over 6-10 years while Elon Musk told his engineers they have 1-2 years and how he sees it there is no reason why they can't get this done in that timeframe if they work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week That seems to be how they get stuff done at Tesla based on what I've read.

I think in a lab setting, Mercedes has superior technology and it is just a matter of having the corporate vision (and the *****) to get that technology out to customers. What Tesla did releasing this software fleet wide was gutsy.

Whatever Mercedes does implement, I really hope they make the software updateable. This is going to be a work in progress for the next few years so they need to have a way to get the latest Distronic/Steering Assist software to all their customers without forcing them to buy a new car, especially considering how the hardware and sensors in existing cars are even more capable than what Tesla has.

The current Tesla Autopilot system is quite solid. Someone just used Tesla Autopilot to drive across the country with the Tesla Autopilot system apparently doing over 95% of the driving.

http://www.cnet.com/news/alex-roy-te...rs-48-minutes/

Last edited by WEBSRFR; 10-24-2015 at 08:07 PM. Reason: Tidy up grammar.
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Old 10-24-2015, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by WEBSRFR View Post
Being able to update the entire car's software and firmware with an over the air update is certainly a benefit with the Tesla system. I just received word that an Autopilot 1.01 update is coming soon with further enhancements to Autopilot along with a feature that uses the experience of the entire Tesla fleet to make the software better. Whenever you intervene or the Tesla autopilot needs you to intervene, Tesla is apparently analyzing those corner cases and making the software smarter.

As I've said before the Mercedes Distronic/Steering Assist hardware is superior to what Tesla has. The difference is software and corporate vision. I bet Mercedes had many meetings and a committee of big wigs decided they are going to enhance and roll out this technology over 6-10 years while Elon Musk told his engineers they have 1-2 years and how he sees it there is no reason why they can't get this done in that timeframe if they work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week That seems to be how they get stuff done at Tesla based on what I've read.

I think in a lab setting, Mercedes has superior technology and it is just a matter of having the corporate vision (and the *****) to get that technology out to customers. What Tesla did releasing this software fleet wide was gutsy.

Whatever Mercedes does implement, I really hope they make the software updateable. This is going to be a work in progress for the next few years so they need to have a way to get the latest Distronic/Steering Assist software to all their customers without forcing them to buy a new car, especially considering how the hardware and sensors in existing cars are even more capable than what Tesla has.

The current Tesla Autopilot system is quite solid. Someone just used Tesla Autopilot to drive across the country with the Tesla Autopilot system apparently doing over 95% of the driving.

http://www.cnet.com/news/alex-roy-te...rs-48-minutes/
Keep in mind that Tesla develops primarily for the US market while MB does not.
Letting go completely of the steering wheel at higher speeds for a longer time is simply not allowed in the EU.
Tesla will adhere to that for their Euro models as well...

That said, over the air software updates are clearly the way to go. All other manufacturers, including MB are behind the curve on that one. I wonder how that has to do with keeping the dealer network satisfied by providing unnecessary service jobs for software/firmware updates.

While Tesla looks good compared to others car makers, they are still pretty low-tech compared to an iPhone and it's eco-system.

Btw, the next gen. Distronic Plus is being introduced with the new E Class and then pushed into the S and C Class.

Also, Audi has a pretty cool Auto Cruise on their new Q7 which not only steers the car but autonomously takes highway and street exits to get to the destination. Pretty advanced over what Tesla has and can have with it sets of sensors...

To me, the S550 does poorly when trying to orient itself on our lousy highway markings. I definitely feel a cop would pull me over when they see how the car steers.
Stop-n-Go on the other hand rocks. I can drive to/from work with out touching the steering wheel
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Old 10-24-2015, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Keep in mind that Tesla develops primarily for the US market while MB does not.
Letting go completely of the steering wheel at higher speeds for a longer time is simply not allowed in the EU.
Tesla will adhere to that for their Euro models as well...
Not any more. Tesla just deployed Autopilot capability to their global fleet (EU included) with the exception of Japan. Apparently they just received regulatory approval to enable Autopilot worldwide and the next day Tesla owners are going to wake up and find their cars are now Autopilot capable.

http://fortune.com/2015/10/23/tesla-...t-goes-global/




Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Btw, the next gen. Distronic Plus is being introduced with the new E Class and then pushed into the S and C Class.

Also, Audi has a pretty cool Auto Cruise on their new Q7 which not only steers the car but autonomously takes highway and street exits to get to the destination. Pretty advanced over what Tesla has and can have with it sets of sensors...

To me, the S550 does poorly when trying to orient itself on our lousy highway markings. I definitely feel a cop would pull me over when they see how the car steers.
Stop-n-Go on the other hand rocks. I can drive to/from work with out touching the steering wheel
I look forward to seeing the self-driving capabilities of the next generation E Class. Some of the other systems you mentioned, I am sure are quite capable, but what Tesla has out now is released to production capability. I am sure others have quite capable concepts but what maters is what is released to production. As others roll out better self driving capabilities in 2016 and 2017 model year cars, what is special about Tesla's approach is that every Tesla delivered since the end of 2014 will be automatically updated with the latest technology as it comes out.

In any case, it seems after other auto manufacturers have slowly introduced partial self driving technologies but with nagging to hold the steering wheel and other stipulations, Tesla has disrupted the pace with nag free solidly capable Autopilot when used as directed. They've initiated a bit of a technology arms race on this technology and the results of this will be great weather someone drives a tesla or Mercedes.

Now everyone will be innovating and competing to have the best technology for semi-autonomous driving. Given that a year ago Tesla did not even have blind spot warnings implemented, they've come a long way very quickly and I hope they keep up the same pace of innovation. Looking forward to Autopilot 1.1 that will drop me off at my front door and park my car in the garage

Last edited by WEBSRFR; 10-24-2015 at 09:54 PM. Reason: Tidy up grammar.
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Old 12-16-2015, 03:21 PM
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Thought you all would find this video interesting. Apparently one single person in a about a month tinkering in his garage has pretty much implemented the capability of Mercedes Active Steering Assist from scratch. This is just the beginning of technology taking over the car. Traditional car companies are going to be so screwed if they keep going at the same pace of innovation.

http://www.bloomberg.com/features/20...f-driving-car/
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Old 12-19-2015, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by WEBSRFR View Post
Thought you all would find this video interesting. Apparently one single person in a about a month tinkering in his garage has pretty much implemented the capability of Mercedes Active Steering Assist from scratch. This is just the beginning of technology taking over the car. Traditional car companies are going to be so screwed if they keep going at the same pace of innovation.

http://www.bloomberg.com/features/20...f-driving-car/
WEBSRFR, I can honestly say that this is by far the most fascinating technology I have ever read about. The future is here! This guy is beyond a genius. He is rapidly changing the world for the better. I am on board. I encourage everyone on this site to read this article. It will boggle your mind.

Thank you SO much for posting this.
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Old 01-09-2016, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BeanTrader View Post
WEBSRFR, I can honestly say that this is by far the most fascinating technology I have ever read about. The future is here! This guy is beyond a genius. He is rapidly changing the world for the better. I am on board. I encourage everyone on this site to read this article. It will boggle your mind.

Thank you SO much for posting this.
Glad you found it useful. Pretty amazing how much can be accomplished with software with these days. The guy quoted in the article working with just a handful of people managed to implement what took traditional carmakers almost a decade of R&D to do and many of those traditional car companies still can't implement competent lane holding functionality or update the software in cars already sold to make lane holding work better.

Our Model S just received a software update from Tesla. This is crazy the first time we used it but our car now can drop us of at our driveway. Once we exit the car, it opens the garage door, drives in and parks itself in the garage, and then closes the garage door. When we are ready to go somewhere it does the reverse and picks us up on our driveway. It's like having a personal valet at home

This is not our car but here's a demo of it working:


Software updates for autonomous driving is the key and I hope Mercedes figures out a way to update the software in cars they have sold. There is so much capability that can be activated in cars they've sold since 2014 if only they could update the software over the air. The S Class already has enough sensors to do autonomous highway driving and just needs smarter software...
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Old 01-09-2016, 05:20 PM
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I believe the S-class has the tech but they do want to implement it until W223
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Old 01-09-2016, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Knicksbenz View Post
I believe the S-class has the tech but they do want to implement it until W223
It's a shame they are sitting on this technology because every 2014+ model year S class has the necessary sensors and the processing power to do this. All the current generation S Class lacks is the software and Mercedes likely already has even that all figured out by now but they have no mechanism to push a software update to their cars.

I wonder if the current S Class architecture can be software update enabled or whether Mercedes has to develop an entirely new vehicle architecture to be able to update the software over the air.
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Old 01-10-2016, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by WEBSRFR View Post
It's a shame they are sitting on this technology because every 2014+ model year S class has the necessary sensors and the processing power to do this. All the current generation S Class lacks is the software and Mercedes likely already has even that all figured out by now but they have no mechanism to push a software update to their cars.

I wonder if the current S Class architecture can be software update enabled or whether Mercedes has to develop an entirely new vehicle architecture to be able to update the software over the air.
MB will not wait until the W223. The new E-class already has all the self driving tech, auto passing and self parking features which will make it into the S-class next MY.
The e-class does have a new data bus for faster data processing which will make it into the facelifted S.
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Old 01-10-2016, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by WEBSRFR View Post
Glad you found it useful. Pretty amazing how much can be accomplished with software with these days. The guy quoted in the article working with just a handful of people managed to implement what took traditional carmakers almost a decade of R&D to do and many of those traditional car companies still can't implement competent lane holding functionality or update the software in cars already sold to make lane holding work better.

Our Model S just received a software update from Tesla. This is crazy the first time we used it but our car now can drop us of at our driveway. Once we exit the car, it opens the garage door, drives in and parks itself in the garage, and then closes the garage door. When we are ready to go somewhere it does the reverse and picks us up on our driveway. It's like having a personal valet at home

This is not our car but here's a demo of it working:

Tesla AutoPark V7.1 - Summon Feature - YouTube

Software updates for autonomous driving is the key and I hope Mercedes figures out a way to update the software in cars they have sold. There is so much capability that can be activated in cars they've sold since 2014 if only they could update the software over the air. The S Class already has enough sensors to do autonomous highway driving and just needs smarter software...
that is neatest thing!! Gave me chills as matter of fact.
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Old 01-10-2016, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by WEBSRFR View Post

I wonder if the current S Class architecture can be software update enabled or whether Mercedes has to develop an entirely new vehicle architecture to be able to update the software over the air.
Actually the vehicle network architecture already supports this. The current TCU or Telematics control unit and vehicle backend does not however.

Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
The e-class does have a new data bus for faster data processing which will make it into the facelifted S.
This data bus you refer to is known as FlexRay and was first used in the facelift 212 with Driver Assistance package. The system in the 212 however was more of an Add-on which used a dedicated FlexRay gateway and only had 3 control units on the bus. This was in addition to two Chassis Can networks. The 222, 217, 205, 253 were designed with FlexRay in mind. All these vehicle will use FlexRay whether or not they have driver assistance. The FlexRay gateway on these models is incorporated into the EZS (which also is the CGW) in these vehicles.

FlexRay was needed for the reason you mentioned...faster speed. The Chassis CAN that was used had a max speed of 500kB/s whereas FlexRay has a Max speed of 10mB/s. When the camera or radar sensors see something, we need to act fast!
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Old 01-10-2016, 10:01 PM
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I wish dealers read the forum sometimes. I couldn't spot any new E class in entire US for last 3 months having distronic plus. The option is completely ignored. Dealers prefer to order cars with pano roof or updated lighting.
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dema View Post
I wish dealers read the forum sometimes. I couldn't spot any new E class in entire US for last 3 months having distronic plus. The option is completely ignored. Dealers prefer to order cars with pano roof or updated lighting.
When we bought our Tesla the thing I realized about the whole car buying process when buying a traditional car is that the actual "customer" of most car manufacturers are not consumers but the car dealers.

It is the dealers who buy the cars and we buy from them so dealers spec out cars based on what they think we might want and not necessarily what we may want.

I can't imagine buying a premium modern car without Distronic or equivalent/better technology and I agree that it is silly for cars with Distronic to be sometimes difficult to find.

What I suggest to you is just spec out and buy the car you want through the European Delivery Program and cut out the whole scenario with having to buy a dealer spec car. You will get a great price on your car with exactly the options you want, have the opportunity to tour the Mercedes factory, and get a little vacation on top of that

If I ever buy a new Mercedes this is how I'd buy it.

https://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/europ...livery_program
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