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2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by El Cid
Electric vehicles are less than 2% of market in Europe and less than 1% in US
EV's had greatest year ever in US in 2016 and sold 159,000 compared to 17 MILLION vehicles sold overall.
There was a time maybe 8-10 years ago, when one could have said the same about smartphones as a percentage of cellphones. Things can sometimes change more quickly than some people expect. Given what Audi, VW, BMW have said about their future EV sales, I think we'll be dramatically higher than 1-2%, 5-6 years from now. Maybe 10%, and headed higher?
Originally Posted by El Cid
The ICE is going to be with us for a very, very long time.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by El Cid
As for CR's Would Buy Again ratings, that is the least reliable thing in everything they do....
People may say they would buy again because otherwise they have to admit they made a mistake when they bought what they did buy. Or they may just be trying to pump up the Tesla or Porsche, etc. brands.
But ask yourself why would they do this with Tesla and Porsche more than other brands?
I do think the "Would Buy it Again" ratings have some merit, BUT I think Tesla benefits from having basically no competition in the ~$100k-ish EV market. Five years from now when we have luxury EVs out from Audi, MB, BMW and others, I think Teslas "Would Buy it Again" rating is destined to decline.
Originally Posted by El Cid
it is contradictory for people to say they would buy a Tesla again and also report it's terrible reliability.
I don't find it contradictory at all. People would "buy it again" DESPITE some reliability issues. Just as MB sales don't go to zero when its reliability trails Lexus...people buy MBs for a host of reasons that for them outweigh reliability.
It made me think a bit. Imo, in the long run, electric drivetrains should prove more reliable than ICE ones (and, if one focuses on the drivetrain, they are probably there already). If I buy a 2027 MB S-Class, my bet is that it will be less reliable than an equivalently luxurious + large + well-featured 2027 MB EV.
Apparently people have found a way to hack into the public charging stations for EV's. They can get the data from your car and any devices you have connected to the car, even for charging.
Supposedly you can purchase recharging cords that do not permit the transfer of data from devices to car's memory systems.
While Tesla and others probably have security systems, they are probably susceptible as well.
As for Would Buy Again, I think Tesla owners and fans are more "dedicated" to the brand than other make owners. IMO, they are more likely to say positively would buy again just to prove how superior Tesla is to other cars and therefore how superior they are to non-Tesla owners.
You could also look at that 99% of people in US would not purchase a Tesla because they haven't.
Apparently people have found a way to hack into the public charging stations for EV's. They can get the data from your car and any devices you have connected to the car, even for charging.
Supposedly you can purchase recharging cords that do not permit the transfer of data from devices to car's memory systems.
While Tesla and others probably have security systems, they are probably susceptible as well.
As for Would Buy Again, I think Tesla owners and fans are more "dedicated" to the brand than other make owners. IMO, they are more likely to say positively would buy again just to prove how superior Tesla is to other cars and therefore how superior they are to non-Tesla owners.
You could also look at that 99% of people in US would not purchase a Tesla because they haven't.
I think part of it is also the convenience around 95% of the time. Most people (me included) drive less than 200 miles per day so the Tesla is always full. My issue with the range is that the few days I would need to go on a long trip I would be completely inconvenienced. For $30-$40K I can live with that. For $120K no way. Personally I like the idea of electric. One thing that concerns me abut the Tesla is I have been reading that the road noise is so bad on the Tesla it sounds like a window is open. If that is the case it is poor design and execution or rather lack of quality products to seal the cabin.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by Landers
One thing that concerns me abut the Tesla is I have been reading that the road noise is so bad on the Tesla it sounds like a window is open.
That has not been my experience, and I speak as an owner of both a Model S and a S-Class. I suggest you go for a test drive yourself, and then if you like, an overnight test drive.
Porsche Taycan, Range Rover AB, Range Rover SVR, S Class, Mclaren 570s, Urus Hybrid (soon), M3, RS6
Originally Posted by WEBSRFR
Mercedes' lack of innovations has caused the S Class to lose significant market share in the US and unless they deliver a compelling EV to compete with the Model 3, Mercedes will see a large market share segment drop with the C Class as well.
There is no evidence of that. The S Class is doing much better in terms of sales relative to the previous generation S Class the same time in the life cycle of the 222. The only reason to buy the S Class is as it is one of the best luxury cars for its price, if I wanted one of the best luxury cars I wouldn't be buying a Tesla Model S. An example is one of the other posters here who has a S Class and Model S - they serve different purposes.
Oh look, there has been a decline in S Class sales but an increase in E Class sales hence the E Class must be taking market share from the S Class - that's essentially what you're saying despite the many other factors that could be there such as people who want a S Class already having one, or people waiting for the facelift to come out etc.
I'm not sure of (nor do I really support) why there is a need to disparage one brand over another.
One thing I am absolutely sure of, we are on Model S number 6 and I have had far fewer problems then with any previous MB, BMW or Audi. The number of service center visits is an even lower percentage of those previous brands given the things simply do not require all the attention. The few issues we have faced are known developmental issues with the cars (one drive unit replacement for the cicada noise - a known issue with early cars) which seem to have been addressed in our latest cars.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by NorCalMercedes
It's funny that these two brands are being compared, when they actually work together. Have you ever looked at the steering wheel, column shifter, or window buttons in a Tesla Model S? They are from Mercedes. Have you ever wondered how the B-Class was developed? It was from Tesla. Mercedes could wipe out Tesla if they wanted, but they don't want to because the companies work together behind the scenes. There was an EV concept car that Mercedes made just before the Model S was released. If you look at that concept, and then look at the Model S, you'll definitely see that the Model S took design cues from it and was influenced by Mercedes.
I believe that MB at one point had an equity stake in Tesla, but sold it some time ago.
Wonder what he will do when the GigaFactory becomes fully operational doubling the worldwide battery production. Then he will have to figure out what to say when Elon announces locations for GigaFactory #3, #4, and possibly #5 later this year. AS EVs go mainstream tesla will build their own batteries and benefit from the vertical integration while competitors will have to figure out where to source and scale their batteries.
Oh and when the Model 3 goes into full production, it will outsell the 3 series, A4, and the C Class cutting into the German premium carmaker's bread and butter. A nice wakeup call for the Germans who wasted time building cars with smoke stacks and still not having a car to compete with the Model S in 2017.
A long time ago Ford showed the world how to build the modern automobile and Tesla is doing the same. Those who still doubt Tesla will see the impact they will have when the Model 3 goes into full production and essentially makes competing combusting cars with smoke stacks obsolete.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
The nice thing about Tesla being public is that it allows people with an opinion on the future of the company to put their money where there mouth is, by going long or short or using options.
Tesla is here to stay and the Model 3 will be a success. But, I think that Mercedes has something special up their sleeve with the upcoming EQ line. It'll likely be a game changer in the PHEV market. Also, Chevy trademarked the Corvette "E-Ray" and Ford announced hybrid versions of the Mustang and F-150. The next few years will be competitive in the low/zero emissions market.
Good article. Thanks for sharing.
I did not read the article.
I do hope MB, VAG and the other majors do have something very special up their sleeves. Electric is proving itself as useful as gas and, in some cases, arguably better. If all the majors pop on board and offer truly comparable versions (as opposed to things like BMW's butt ugly I3), we will finally get a chance to see if the market agrees. People will simply vote with their wallet.
Tesla is simply doing as Musk has done with SpaceX and is accelerating the process.
Back to your originally schedule manufacturer of choice bashing
Those on this thread who think EVs aren't going to be a significant portion of the market in the years to come are drinking kool aid.
I am sure there are some doubters but I can't wait for more EV's to come out. The Tesla isn't for me and there is plenty to get excited about. Sooner will be better...
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I am sure there are some doubters but I can't wait for more EV's to come out. The Tesla isn't for me and there is plenty to get excited about. Sooner will be better...
Yup, I can't wait either. I was getting pretty excited about the prospect of an Audi EV SUV for 2018, but now I'm thinking the autonomous driving capabilities won't be anywhere near where Tesla will be...that's important to my wife as she drives 35 mi to NYC most days. Maybe we'll get a Model X after all, or whatever SUV comes after the Model 3...or wait for the MB EV SUV.
I think it interesting that companies like Porsche and Bentley took a LONG time to come out with SUVs, but seem to want to jump on the EV bandwagon comparatively quickly.
Please stop with this propaganda finally, I drive my cars aggressively, have a heavy foot and just can't follow the rest of the traffic like a duck.
The P90D I had for 4 days was used by me the same way and my range dropped to less then 100 miles on first day, the impressive performance is inconsistent and I could not trust the car to do the same what it did in the morning of same day.
Maybe some day the technology will improve but for now the car is a piece of boring crap, you feel like you sit in something produced by Whirlpool not a car manufacturer.
Went with an open mind and wanted to like it and buy it (based on reading reviews by guys like you), took the top model and ended up totally disappointed.
Went straight to Audi, bought an old tech, end of production cycle Audi for which I paid $30k more then that loaded P90D and could not be happier....
Wait a minute, are you saying that flooring the car to enjoy its superior acceleration kills the battery capacity prematurely until it gets charged again? How about climbing up the mountains and flooring the car?
It said in the video you got to pre heat the battery of the tesla and that could take 45 minutes? Who the heck is going to race me if I told them to wait for 45 minutes first.
Wait a minute, are you saying that flooring the car to enjoy its superior acceleration kills the battery capacity prematurely until it gets charged again? How about climbing up the mountains and flooring the car?
Don't even think about using the air conditioning either...
Well the good news is that your car creates less than half the CO2 than an S5504matic. How much difference that will make to the environment in the grand scheme of things but it is a step in the right direction.
Your moment of reckoning is already here with the Model S greatly outselling the S Class not just in the US but even in some European countries. When the Model 3 comes out, it will be brutal what will happen to Mercedes, BMW, Audi sales.
And for the guy whining about "battery preheating" if someone were to race him in a Tesla, let me just say that a P90DL or P100DL Tesla can hand your *** to you before your car has enough time to set fire to enough drops of dinosaur excrement. "Battery Preheating" in a Tesla will deliver that last 1/10 or 2/10th of a second in acceleration but this is hardly needed to leave non electric cars in the dust.
At a stop light I can make just about the entire Mercedes AMG lineup look tiny in my rear view mirror at will and in an instant, no battery heating needed. And I no longer even driver the fastest Tesla made anymore with the P100D delivering 0-60 times in 2.2s and is officially the fastest car ever tested by Motor Trend.
Your moment of reckoning is already here with the Model S greatly outselling the S Class not just in the US but even in some European countries. When the Model 3 comes out, it will be brutal what will happen to Mercedes, BMW, Audi sales.
And for the guy whining about "battery preheating" if someone were to race him in a Tesla, let me just say that a P90DL or P100DL Tesla can hand your *** to you before your car has enough time to set fire to enough drops of dinosaur excrement. "Battery Preheating" in a Tesla will deliver that last 1/10 or 2/10th of a second in acceleration but this is hardly needed to leave non electric cars in the dust.
At a stop light I can make just about the entire Mercedes AMG lineup look tiny in my rear view mirror at will and in an instant, no battery heating needed. And I no longer even driver the fastest Tesla made anymore with the P100D delivering 0-60 times in 2.2s and is officially the fastest car ever tested by Motor Trend.
Don't care how fast or slow it goes. I'll wave to you from my S Class as you are charging your Model S ( or whatever version EV car you have ) as I drive by comfortably with my AC on and NO range anxiety.
I believe we are still a few years away from EV's being viable for the general public. Infrastructure and range is not here yet.
02-15-2017, 06:15 PM
