MTrauman

Interesting read on what Volvo was saying about Tesla's AutoPilot before the Joshua Brown accident below.




Volvo Engineer Calls Tesla Autopilot a “Wannabe”


BySteve HanleyPosted on April 28, 2016 Tesla-Autopilot-Traffic-Rain
Volvo engineer Trent Victor says the Tesla Autopilot system is a “wannabe” because it cannot avoid a dangerous driving situation without assistance from the driver.

Tesla Autopilot screen

Trent Victor, senior technical leader of crash avoidance at Volvo, calls the Tesla Autopilot system “an unsupervised wannabe.” At best, he thinks it is a semi-autonomous system masquerading as an autonomous one. “It gives you the impression that it’s doing more than it is.” When it comes to Autopilot, color Trent Victor unimpressed.

Why is he so harsh in his judgment? Because he believes Autopilot conveys the impression that the driver is free to check e-mail or watch a video while the car drives itself. Victor says Volvo believes Level 3 autonomy, in which a driver needs to be ready to take over at a moment’s notice, is an unsafe solution. “Our position on autonomous driving is to keep it quite different so you know when you’re in semi-autonomous and know when you’re in unsupervised autonomous,” he says.

Tesla’s Autopilot semi-autonomous technology gives drivers the ability to take their hands off the wheel while the car effectively drives itself on the highway. Although it is the most advanced semi-autonomous system available in an automobile today, that doesn’t mean it’s a good implementation of technology, according to Victor.

Volvo plans to unveil its Drive Me autonomous car in 2017. The pilot program will feature a Level 4 autonomous car capable of driving like a Tesla on Autopilot, but it will also be able to handle any situation that arises without any human intervention. The driver won’t need to be involved at all. If something goes wrong, the car will be able to stop itself safely and park on the side of the road.

“In our concept, if you don’t take over, if you have fallen asleep or are watching a film, then we will take responsibility still,” says Victor. “We won’t just turn [autonomous mode] off. We take responsibility and we’ll be stopping the vehicle if you don’t take over.”

Victor says that Autopilot as presently configured will simply disengage if a dangerous situation is imminent. The assumption is that the driver will then resume control of the car. But if the driver is distracted, an accident can ensue before the driver realizes that human control is required.

“That’s a really important step in terms of safety, to make people understand that it’s only an option for them take over,” says Victor. Volvo is “taking responsibility both for crash events, and we’re also programming it for extreme events like people walking in the road even where they’re not supposed to be. There’s a massive amount of work put into making it handle a crash or conflict situations.”

Ultimately, the development of self driving vehicles will be as much about government regulation as it is about differences in corporate philosophy. The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration is pondering what those regulations should be. In fact, it is soliciting public comments at a hearing in Silicon Valley today.

Ford, Volvo, Uber, Lyft, and Google have formed a new consortium called The Self Driving Coalition for Safer Streets. It will lobby NHTSA for regulations its members believe will best serve their business interests. It is interesting that Tesla is not part of the coalition. No doubt, Tesla is pursuing its own lobbying campaign.

Although details are sketchy at the moment, there is little doubt that Tesla expects the self driving capabilities of the upcoming Model 3 to represent a major step forward from the Autopilot system available in its cars today. Will it be good enough to meet the objections of people like Trent Victor? We will know in about 18 months.

MTrauman

I think we now can answer the question the difference with the link below to show that the MB Distronic System is far better than the Tesla AutoPilot. In the same situation the Distronic System would prevented the accident while in the article/video below it proves that the AutoPilot system cannot prevent a simple low speed accident.


My S Class would easily avoid this collision.




http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model...d-van-highway/

Ormond2004

I drove a Model S P90D over the weekend, and found it to be quite exciting to drive. It doesn't offer the comfort of a S, so I don't know if I would buy one.

The Autopilot was only used for a short while on my test drive. I cannot say that I liked it better than our Distronic Plus.

I was very impressed with the Tesla.

syswei

If you want, you can ask the dealer for a 24-hour, or possibly longer, weekday test drive. If you put the refundable deposit down, weekends should be ok.

We've had a 70D for a few weeks now, and I agree the comfort and luxury on the S550 is far better...but I think so partly because my preferences run toward luxury rather than sport. The Tesla ride is too firm for my tastes.

Though I'm coming to realize that Tesla's collision avoidance isn't up to snuff (and the blind-spot detection is a joke), I find that Autopilot is FAR preferable to Distronic Plus. On the highway, I use 70D Autopilot maybe half the time, but the S550's Distronic Plus almost never.

MDMercedesGuy

This guy now owes me a cup of coffee - I literally spilled mine after reading that ridiculous post.

How does one end up in a position where they can afford one of these Tesla appliances when they publicly exercise the linguistic skills of a second grader?

absent

Longer test drive is a must for that car as it is a totally different philosophy compared to regular cars.
I was ready to place an order within first 30 min of driving a P90D.
Had the car from Friday to Monday morning though and after I spent more time in it, I realized it was not for me, never any car before bored me as quickly as that one (take-off acceleration that is only available with full battery and is no longer there after barely 200 miles, wears thin pretty quickly too).
I can see the attraction though, for anyone commuting in heavy traffic and relatively short distance (30-50 miles daily) as it is probably the best transportation pod for non enthusiasts and electronic gadget geeks.

MDMercedesGuy

Gotta love that Tesla dealer experience.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/12/m...ti-hate-tesla/

MDMercedesGuy

More Tesla in the news... it appears the half baked autopilot caused yet another crash.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/12/tech...ent/index.html

beckerkumm

I'm not a Tesla guy but the moron driving a twisty road with no shoulder and no hands caused the crash. Dave

MDMercedesGuy

The fact that the car did not completely kick out and not allow operation outside of its designed parameters is a problem.

C280 Sport

That was similar to my first impressions as well when I drove one. I loved how fast it was but the novelty wore off after a short time. Still love the speed of it but unfortunately it does not apply in the real world. I never owned a car so fast(0-60 in 3 seconds) so it was amazing to feel and experience it. I found that after driving it that it had a very appliance feel. A car that is unlike any other today and then in a couple years is to be replaced by something better and the same people who love the Model S today will not think about because they moved into the next best thing. It reminded me of my IPhone 6S or Mac. Fun for a little while but just another throw away item. Not a true car enthusiasts first love. Not something I would still have in 15 years that I can wax and clean on a Sunday. Not something I can enjoy and go I still love this car. It lacked quality(interior, panel gap), attention to detail and the feel of it just did nothing for me.

C280 Sport

100% Agree

JayinToronto

I agree with you in a very sentimental way. Unfortunately us car enthusiasts are a extreme minority. Where loving a car, it's character, it's nuances, and having a visceral response to the interaction between man and machine is lost on 99% of the population. Tesla has got it right for the majority, have a wow shiny new tech apple like appeal then do everything for you in a utilitarian, cold (referring to the interior) mindless way. The more uninvolved most people can be with their car the better for them.

fathom6

I'll echo the comments, having owned a Model S first hand. The experience of Tesla is a weird one, you get so much hyped off by the sheer sales pitch, but soon that novelty wears off, and you "long" aching to get rid of it. It lacks the warmth, the feel of a quality automobile ... I'd take a C300 as my third (or second car) anytime, let alone a comparison with an S (my primary vehicle, that sends my face smiling)

El Cid

Per Consumer Reports, NHTSA is investigating the crash in Florida. I find it confusing that apparently Tesla refers to it as Autopilot, but now says it really isn't and drivers should not have assumed it was? I can remember for years when autopilot was activated on a TV show or movie for a plane, the plane essentially flew intself.
I realize this is a stretch and the plane never really flew itself, but Elon Musk and the Tesla executives should have KNOWN that calling it Autopilot was a mistake. This created a belief that the car could drive itself.
I am not a techy so I do not know what Beta means in this context and I doubt most people do either. Therefore it is shortsighted for Tesla to use it to try and explain how "autopilot" really wasn't autopilot.
Still see a lot of attorneys licking their chops over this one.

fathom6

In my experience, it is just not the AutoPilot, that is overly hyped up, let alone the build quality. I would go to the extend that if not everything, most of the things about Tesla are a blatant LIE, and if not bordering on it. Even the best selling point, acceleration is great but not as claimed to be. The "resiliency" of the batteries is absolutely not as they are claimed to be. There are so many DO NOTs that unless you are a environmentalist, it does't all make sense and you lose the enjoyable factor.

MTrauman

You are hitting on the "cylinders" that have made me uncomfortable about Tesla from the very beginning. And I have not owned a Tesla like you have.


The company revels in the "cult" mentality from it's customers. This is very concerning to me. I enjoy being an MB owner but I certainly am not a MB "groupie" like the people that drink the Tesla Kool Aid--I just think this is weird.


Their accounting practices as a company stretch the boundaries. I remember an article a few years ago where Tesla was trying to use Non-GAAP accounting and trying to de-emphasize what all other companies use (GAAP-Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) to make their numbers look better than they really are.


They make their products "look" better than they really are. And now you have the potential of massive product liability lawsuits that really could force them into bankruptcy--but probably won't because the snake oil salesman will figure a way out. To me the company has the feel of a snake oil salesperson and no matter how "cool" their products are I am simply staying away because I think eventually a big shoe will drop and the "appliance" that one paid 100k for will be absolutely worthless especially when the competition eats Musk's lunch when they do the real R&D behind their products instead of using the public as their test dummies.

syswei

This fellow seemed to have fun at Nurburgring:


while not exactly a record, it seems a very decent time for an amateur driver in a stock P85D on stock 19" rims and tires...presumably he might have done better without traffic and with a P90D on factory option 21" rims and different tires and regenerative braking switched to low.

MTrauman

Cool video. Thanks for posting.

absent

Decent driver, M3, with officially severely inferior acceleration, at barely 60-70mph takes off like a rocket and leaves the Tesla for dead.
Eye opener and shows the reality of electric car's supposedly World beating performance.

syswei

It is true that Tesla's strong suit is initial acceleration, while relatively speaking it isn't as strong at 50-70 or 70-90 or 90-110. But my point in posting is that the total lap time was imo pretty decent. At 0:47 he passes a Porsche GT3, but then never seems to get passed in turn. (Maybe the GT3 driver called it quits after getting passed by a near-5000 lb, 4-door, 5-seat sedan? ...j.k.)

There are definitely times when the M3 seems to pull away. But then, maybe things would have been somewhat different with a P90D instead of a P85D. Car & Driver put the 50-70 time for the P90D at 1.8sec vs 2.9sec for the P85D. Unfortunately, they don't publish 70-90 etc. How would this translate into the real world? I'd like to see the a single driver test both the P90D and M3 on the same track with identical wheels and rubber, to the extent possible, but we aren't real likely to see it.

JayinToronto

The conclusions being inferred from this post are ridiculous. Passed a GT3! Lol. Clearly the GT3 driver is either total crap or not at all driving hard. I had the pleasure (or rather displeasure) of being on Mosport (a former F-1 track where I do all my track days) 2 weeks ago where a guy brought out his new P90 (he's a good driver that rips hard in his modified M3). Let me tell you before any more stupid conclusions are drawn, It's a total pig on the track sooooooooo slow on the corners, so slow at high speed acceleration. I drive a 2012 911 turbo and absolutely killed the tesla. The 991 GT3s and I battle pretty evenly. I can't stand when people bring their sedans to the track because the rep at the dealer said "it's awesome on the track." I'm sorry, but to even entertain that these 5000lb pigs perform even remotely well in the track setting is a joke. It was a liability out there and was constantly passed by EVERYONE! Fun for stand still acceleration. Fun for looking up Facebook while not driving. Fun for impressing your friends with the fancy google maps overlay. Fun for the track?! Maybe if you idea of fun is overheating and warping your rotors, causing massive trains behind you and go super slow around turns I guess you can pretend thats fun. What a joke. This is really starting to get rediculous.

Wolfman

Perfect response from somebody that never drives fast. The M3 was so much quicker that nobody would have considered it even a race...

This Tesla, just like a S550, has no business on the track or the Nurburgring. If this video shows anything, it's actually how average that car is at speed...

Wolfman

Btw. In Germany, the equivalent of the DOT? said it would have never authorized the use of Autopilot on German roads if Tesla would have disclosed that this isn't proven and tested software but simply in-process beta software.

There is a reason why other car makers requires frequent touching of the steering wheel. Whatever is on the market is an assistive system at best. That includes Tesla. Unfortunately, is hasn't been used that way due to misleading marketing...

syswei

I've never tracked any car...so I guess, tell it to the guy in the video. It seems in the video, it was the P85D that was doing the passing.