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Electric and hybrid cars now make up less than 3% of new car sales in US. This is a decrease from previous years.
75% of Americans who traded in a hybrid or electric vehicle traded it for an ICE. An 11 percent increase from 2015.
Tesla has risen to number one in Norway due to large increases in both the gasoline and carbon emissions taxes. Neither of those things is going to happen in the US. As far as I know, Norway has nethier an automotive nor a large petroleum industry. The US has both.
Electric and hybrid vehicles cost significantly more than ICE versions, which is currently mitigated by state and federal tax credits. However, states are eliminating them and Congress is considering it. Takes about 10 years to break even on EV's if credits are removed.
ICE vehicles are improving in efficiency even as cost of fuel goes down.
The lower sales for sedans and premium ones is due to increased sales in the pick-up and SUV market - not a move to EV's or HV's.
Laws mandating EVs will be irrelevant when the cost of per kWh goes below $100 and we can expect that when the Tesla Gigfactory is operational. At that point it will be less expensive to build an EV than a combustion car.
As I had pointed out already just about every entry level premium car that competes with the Tesla Model 3 is already registering a significant drop in sales.
No, but seriously, there is no way you could drive 1km in a Tesla and 1km in a Mercedes S 550 and consider talking about the 2 in the same breath. No comparison. S 550 is leaps and bounds ahead of the tesla in terms of drivability comfort luxury experience, basically everything except 0-60. The S-class is a proper luxury sedan. The tesla is a really good computer in a Saturn. It drives me crazy that the tesla folks are trying to hang around with the big boys. They sound like fools.
Last edited by JayinToronto; 08-01-2016 at 05:00 AM.
No, but seriously, there is no way you could drive 1km in a Tesla and 1km in a Mercedes S 550 and consider talking about the 2 in the same breath. No comparison. S 550 is leaps and bounds ahead of the tesla in terms of drivability comfort luxury experience, basically everything except 0-60. The S-class is a proper luxury sedan. The tesla is a really good computer in a Saturn. It drives me crazy that the tesla folks are trying to hang around with the big boys. They sound like fools.
My niece is a renowned psychiatrist, she told me that when dealing with insane people the key is to agree with all they say and try to keep them calm at all cost.
If they believe they have wings and want to fly off the 5 story building you have to convince them that the weather is not proper at the moment.
No, but seriously, there is no way you could drive 1km in a Tesla and 1km in a Mercedes S 550 and consider talking about the 2 in the same breath. No comparison. S 550 is leaps and bounds ahead of the tesla in terms of drivability comfort luxury experience, basically everything except 0-60. The S-class is a proper luxury sedan. The tesla is a really good computer in a Saturn. It drives me crazy that the tesla folks are trying to hang around with the big boys. They sound like fools.
As I had pointed out already just about every entry level premium car that competes with the Tesla Model 3 is already registering a significant drop in sales.
And has been pointed out and documented every time, you are wrong and your conclusions are wrong. You are not only not comparing apples to apples, you are comparing apples to rocks.
1. Most of the cars on the list you keep posting do NOT compete with the Model 3.
2. Absolutely ZERO proof or indication that the decrease in sales is due to the Model 3. 98% of people in US purchasing cars today do not consider Tesla or the Model 3. Zero indication that will change in the future.
3. Premium car sales have declined because new car sales have achieved an all time high and this has satisfied the market to a great extent.
4. Premium car sales have declined because people are purchasing mid-price cars that are equipped as well as the premiums, but at a lower price.
5. Premium car sales have declined because people are purchasing SUV's.
6. You have NEVER shown a chart or other documentation that shows people are purchasing Tesla vehicles instead of other vehicles. NEVER.
7. Before you post it again, deposits are NOT purchases. Orders are not even purchases.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
FYI Porsche may already be mule-testing the Mission E...article
and is adding 1400 employees to the project...article
I rather like the sounds that a Tesla makes under acceleration. But I'm wondering if Porsche or others might someday use the car stereo to simulate ICE sounds if the driver so desires.
I too love the sound the P85D makes under full acceleration. Sounds like it is a spaceship. Maximum torque is available in an instant as all it takes is the activation of a magnetic field and that can be done at close to the speed of light from the time you depress the accelerator.
With a combustion car you tell the car to go, the car needs to suck in decomposed dinosaur sludge, then compress it, then set fire to it, and then use that detonation to move pistons and a convoluted set of mechanical contraptions before the car goes anywhere. So very quaint.
The level of ignorance some are exhibiting is quite rich. You point out a very simple fact that once the cost goes below $100 kWh that it will be less expensive to build an EV than a combustion car. They immediately resort to tirades steeped in ignorance and perhaps breathing in too many exhaust fumes
The good news is all this will happen within the next 3-4 years and we will see then the state of the combustion premium car market and how badly it would have been affected by EVs built by Tesla, Porsche and others. Some are in denial that the entry level premium sedan market is already affected with over $2B in sales missing compared to last year with customers anticipating the Tesla Model 3 next year.
Some are in denial that the entry level premium sedan market is already affected with over $2B in sales missing compared to last year with customers anticipating the Tesla Model 3 next year.
WEBSRFR,
Are you simply brain dead?
Your analysis is so far off the mark. You simply are too emotionally tied to Tesla to see the forest through the trees. I hope Tesla pays you well because you are making an absolute fool of yourself on this website.
In fact, if I take the other side of your argument, the Tesla Model 3 sales will be lower than anyone anticipates because the consumers that buy that price level of car are buying less cars. The real fact is that nobody knows but I wished you would have been in law school with me when I went to law school because I would beat the living sh-- out of your hair brained arguments in moot court.
The world does not revolve around Tesla and the Model 3.
WBRSFR:
1. You are assuming that the cost of manufacturing an EV will go lower. Perhaps, but what about the cost of manufacturing all cars going lower. Already happening daily with ICE cars.
2. Even if the cost goes down, this does not mean the selling price will be lowered. In fact, in the premium market that is unlikely. That is the market with the highest profit margins.
3. Automotive companies are spending billions on manufacturing, researching and developing ICE vehicles when you KNOW that they will be gone in 4 years? Maybe you should warn them and get a commission?
4. The energy for your EV is coming primarily from oil, natural gas, nuclear and coal energy. Solar and hydro produce very little electricity. How do you think it gets to the charger? Also, it does not go straight from the battery to the wheels either, so I guess that is "quaint" also.
5. You are illiterate I guess, since you still have not read where automotive sales are down across the board. Moreso for EV's than any other type. In fact, the only sales increases are in ICE vehicles.
6. As pointed out many times before, premium sedans are losing sales to other premium brands (read your darn chart), SUV's and crossovers. Also to mid-price cars that are better equipped than ever before and lower priced.
NO ONE is waiting on the maybe someday Model 3. Ok, maybe you and three other people.
7. AGAIN- reservations do not equal sales, especially when the person can get their money back.
8. You cannot see the forest for the trees because you are in the middle of the desert.
9. Recentally took a 250 mile road trip. Only one supercharger available along the entire route and only then because I took a side trip to Asheville NC. It was not convenient at all to where I was travelling. Temps. ranged from 85-99 degrees which means AC ran constantly. Going up into Smokey Moutains on National Forest Roads and Blue Ridge Parkway-lot of steep grades. Lot of traffic, very slow going much of the time. Lots of stalled traffic at major intersections on interstate part south of Asheville. In other words, higly unlikely I could have made the trip in a Tesla without getting a recharge. Whereas, my old gas guzzler still had half a tank when I got home.
Please stop with this propaganda finally, I drive my cars aggressively, have a heavy foot and just can't follow the rest of the traffic like a duck.
The P90D I had for 4 days was used by me the same way and my range dropped to less then 100 miles on first day, the impressive performance is inconsistent and I could not trust the car to do the same what it did in the morning of same day.
Maybe some day the technology will improve but for now the car is a piece of boring crap, you feel like you sit in something produced by Whirlpool not a car manufacturer.
Went with an open mind and wanted to like it and buy it (based on reading reviews by guys like you), took the top model and ended up totally disappointed.
Went straight to Audi, bought an old tech, end of production cycle Audi for which I paid $30k more then that loaded P90D and could not be happier....
No idea what the duck comment means, but my P85+ leads the way. No need for a rear view mirror in this car.
The only you got to 100 miles of range (and I don't believe you did) is by launching the car the entire time. You would have destroyed your MPG in an ICE car if you had driven like that, so: FUD.
Nothing boring about a Tesla! Vroooooooom. Oh, yeah, no sounds--stealthy...
That said, I am excited about the upcoming EV models over the next 5-10 years. Mercedes is launching a complete EV sub-brand (a la AMG), so in time this will be interesting as there will be attractive EV cars to choose from...
Yes, let's hope it turns out better for them than Maybach!
Maybach as a new sub-brand is working out quite well for them. Just not the original Maybach. That one was a separate company altogether.
I remember that 10-15 years ago, Mercedes Dealers had a 1$M investment requirement for building separate showrooms and services as they were not allowed to be sold on the same showroom floor as Mercedes.
I started this thread so I do not need to look at the title of it since I created the title.
This thread was started because people like WEBSRFR were overselling the Tesla Dream on this MB Forum site. And WEBSRFR is still doing that unfortunately. As far as FUD, yes I have tons of doubt Tesla will survive as an independent company.
Looks like you are doing the same by simply setting up a user name on an MB forum titled "TheTeslaDude". Very sad.
[snip] (cut out the useless stuff)
Yes, it will be neat when MB puts an electric drive train in the S Class since the Model S interior is a $30k to $50k car interior. And I doubt Tesla will be an independent company in 10 years from now since they do not know how to run their company. Poor governance, poor management and poor administration will be its downfall.
Grats on working out how to start a thread. Too bad there's so much FUD here. You have doubts, so the company will fail. Might want to do some more research, then you could short a bunch of shares.
"neat" it will be. Think it will happen before Tesla crushes MB? I don't like a lot of crap in my car, so the interior deficiency is only in the minds of those who think they need it. I bought my MS for the tech. Might want to get out your thesaurus there: governance, management, and administration sound great, but it's the same thing. Have a great day.
....and that's the point I was trying to pound in their thick skulls.
I went, I saw and I did not like what I saw.....
They just do not comprehend the fact that not everyone is addicted to Musk's coolaid and may have a different opinion of that product.
You have yet to convince anyone you've even seen a MS, much less driven one. None of the info you've written matches up with the realities of ownership.
My niece is a renowned psychiatrist, she told me that when dealing with insane people the key is to agree with all they say and try to keep them calm at all cost.
If they believe they have wings and want to fly off the 5 story building you have to convince them that the weather is not proper at the moment.
When you run out of your own message, attack the messenger. That's all you have?! So weak
9. Recentally took a 250 mile road trip. Only one supercharger available along the entire route and only then because I took a side trip to Asheville NC. It was not convenient at all to where I was travelling. Temps. ranged from 85-99 degrees which means AC ran constantly. Going up into Smokey Moutains on National Forest Roads and Blue Ridge Parkway-lot of steep grades. Lot of traffic, very slow going much of the time. Lots of stalled traffic at major intersections on interstate part south of Asheville. In other words, higly unlikely I could have made the trip in a Tesla without getting a recharge. Whereas, my old gas guzzler still had half a tank when I got home.
Stop and go traffic is another area where EVs are superior to ICE. Where an ICE vehicle sits and burns gas and oil no matter stopped or moving, when stopped, an EV is running only the AC. That saves lots of power and is better for the planet.
Grats on working out how to start a thread. Too bad there's so much FUD here. You have doubts, so the company will fail. Might want to do some more research, then you could short a bunch of shares.
"neat" it will be. Think it will happen before Tesla crushes MB? I don't like a lot of crap in my car, so the interior deficiency is only in the minds of those who think they need it. I bought my MS for the tech. Might want to get out your thesaurus there: governance, management, and administration sound great, but it's the same thing. Have a great day.
Glad you can READ a thesaurus.
In the real working world governance = board, management = officers, and administration relates to functions like accounting and legal department management. As someone who has worked with two of the four largest international accounting firms as a CPA and having a law degree I think I understand what this means. Thanks for the insult.
In the real working world governance = board, management = officers, and administration relates to functions like accounting and legal department management. As someone who has worked with two of the four largest international accounting firms as a CPA and having a law degree I think I understand what this means. Thanks for the insult.
Awesome! How about detailing the problems at Tesla?
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Maybach as a new sub-brand is working out quite well for them. Just not the original Maybach. That one was a separate company altogether.
I remember that 10-15 years ago, Mercedes Dealers had a 1$M investment requirement for building separate showrooms and services as they were not allowed to be sold on the same showroom floor as Mercedes.
You're right, I was thinking the earlier Maybach effort when I wrote that. I just checked and it looks like they sold roughly 6000 Maybachs in China last year...I'm guessing that would be >50% of their world total for 2015. I thought I read somewhere that it isn't moving that well in the U.S. I think I've seen only 2 on the streets (or parked) in the last year...which might be double what I used to see of the old Maybach.
Stop and go traffic is another area where EVs are superior to ICE. Where an ICE vehicle sits and burns gas and oil no matter stopped or moving, when stopped, an EV is running only the AC. That saves lots of power and is better for the planet.
Perhaps you're unaware that the S class shuts down its engine when stopped in traffic? Running only the AC, and not shortening its range, unlike electric vehicles.
07-31-2016, 06:30 PM
