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That said, I am excited about the upcoming EV models over the next 5-10 years. Mercedes is launching a complete EV sub-brand (a la AMG), so in time this will be interesting as there will be attractive EV cars to choose from...
Yeah that van is crazy. While not quite as fast as a Tesla P90DL that van with an EV powertrain can leave a long list of "supercars" in the dust.
And this is from a brand new company and there are many other such companies in stealth mode that are well funded.
I agree that over the next 5 years or so we will see some incredible EVs by Tesla, Mercedes, and other companies that few know even exist today.
We will find out next month more details about the upcoming Mercedes EVs.
Perhaps you're unaware that the S class shuts down its engine when stopped in traffic? Running only the AC, and not shortening its range, unlike electric vehicles.
Now if only they would yank out all the ancient relics of combustion components from the car and install a bigger battery so the car can run on battery power completely they will have a modern car
The good news is we have to only wait a month to see what Mercedes' first no compromise EVs will look like and then from there it will be another 2-4 years before Mercedes RTM an EV that benchmarks a 2012 Tesla Model S. At which point they will have a hard time selling their combusting vehicles.
Stop and go traffic is another area where EVs are superior to ICE. Where an ICE vehicle sits and burns gas and oil no matter stopped or moving, when stopped, an EV is running only the AC. That saves lots of power and is better for the planet.
What I have read indicates it takes a lot of electricity to run the A/C or even heat in a car that is not moving or moving very slowly. Much greater impact on range than running a gas engine.
Yeah that van is crazy. While not quite as fast as a Tesla P90DL that van with an EV powertrain can leave a long list of "supercars" in the dust.
And this is from a brand new company and there are many other such companies in stealth mode that are well funded.
I agree that over the next 5 years or so we will see some incredible EVs by Tesla, Mercedes, and other companies that few know even exist today.
We will find out next month more details about the upcoming Mercedes EVs.
That was a Model 90. Subsequent runs has the van under 3 sec as well.
But that's not the point in this forum. 0-60 is not relevant in the S-Class forum where you keep posting. Its a nice benefit but not a priority. I suggest to step over to the AMG side of MBworld...
That was a Model 90. Subsequent runs has the van under 3 sec as well.
But that's not the point in this forum. 0-60 is not relevant in the S-Class forum where you keep posting. Its a nice benefit but not a priority. I suggest to step over to the AMG side of MBworld...
I knew of this test run 4 weeks ago. It was not a Tesla Model S P90D as with Ludicrous Mode and with a recent update the Model S can now do the 0-to run in about 2.8s. They also just improved the quarter mile time to 10.8 seconds.
The world's fastest 0 o to 60 time for a production 4 door sedan is something that makes a Model S so fun to drive. I agree it is not a huge priority as we would still have bought a Model S if it was just marginally faster than an AMG model but the acceleration of a Tesla obliterates just about any AMG model and I certainly don't mind having that ability
In an instant the Tesla can generate over one lateral G so that's more than the G force you would feel when you skydive. Never fails to put a smile on my face and it is like having a personal rollercoaster on a nice day with no one on the road and you have a nice twisty road ahead of you.
I suppose I could post how well a Tesla performs on the AMG forum but with all the money they paid for their AMG cars I don't want to make them feel bad.
Plus you all would really miss me here if I went to the AMG forum
Ah you beat me to it! I was just going to post that for those who are claiming the upcoming Tesla Model is not affecting the premium car market already. BMW is running a whole bunch of ads now aimed at people who have a deposit for a Tesla Model 3. The Tesla Model 3 is one year away and BMW is already hurting or they would not be running ads just for the ~ 400,000 people who have a Tesla Model 3 reservation otherwise.
I guess BMW is feeling the loss of their 4 series sales declining by 22.6%, their 3 series sales declining by 22.9% and their 5 series sales declining by 14%. Just in the United States BMW is now missing about $722,000,000+ in sales YTD. The upcoming Tesla Model 3 and the ~400,000 deposits for the Tesla have something to do with this decline in sales as otherwise they would not be running multiple ads trying to get Tesla deposit holders to buy a BMW.
The Tesla Model 3 deposit holders will continue to hold onto their deposits and not buy competing combusting cars continuing to drag down the sales of the premium combusting car industry as we are witnessing now. Of course BMWs efforts with these ads will fail as they don't have a car that is even remotely competitive with the upcoming Tesla Model 3.
1. Autopilot: Nein!
2. Over the air software updates with new features: Nein!
3. All electric high performance drivetrain: Hölle Nein!
4. Nationwide fast charging Supercharger Network: Scheiße Nein!
5. Panoramic roof: Nein!
6. Range of over 200 miles on a single charger: Natürlich nicht!
7. Automotive industry's most intuitive touch screen interface: Scheiße Nein!
And the real kicker here is that while BMW spends money to lure Tesla customers with their ads, Tesla spends zero on advertising. Tesla has built up such a great reputation that their cars sell themselves.
Declining sales of the US Entry Level Premium Car Segment:
What I have read indicates it takes a lot of electricity to run the A/C or even heat in a car that is not moving or moving very slowly. Much greater impact on range than running a gas engine.
There's no magic here. AC uses the same power, not more. Heat, however, is another issue and may affect range, between 5-10%, depending on where you are. There are techniques to mitigate this effect (having overnight charge finish as you leave and running your preheat while plugged in).
You have yet to convince anyone you've even seen a MS, much less driven one. None of the info you've written matches up with the realities of ownership.
I don't have to convince any Tesla fanatics whether I drove one or not.
Car was offered to me by Tesla (very nice and professional guys btw), delivered to my home on a Friday morning and picked up Monday afternoon.
My experience is based on driving the car over 3 days and about 120miles.
Interesting observation about Tesla future from Bob Lutz in latest Car&Driver:
"C/D:Will Tesla still exist 20 years from now?
BL: As it is presently, no.
As they say, "Socialism is great until they run out of other people's money."
Tesla burns cash. It is not a car company. It's a cult of fanatics who think Elon Musk can do no wrong.
But financially, it doesn't work."
Wise words from one of the most respected car guys so do not try to belittle him, it would only show how anyone doing it is stupid and thick really.
Tesla is losing $$ hand over fist and soon the "free ride" will sadly end.
I hope the technology survives though, has great potential, it's just not there yet, maybe Porsche could show something real.
I don't have to convince any Tesla fanatics whether I drove one or not.
Car was offered to me by Tesla (very nice and professional guys btw), delivered to my home on a Friday morning and picked up Monday afternoon.
My experience is based on driving the car over 3 days and about 120miles.
Interesting observation about Tesla future from Bob Lutz in latest Car&Driver:
"C/D:Will Tesla still exist 20 years from now?
BL: As it is presently, no.
As they say, "Socialism is great until they run out of other people's money."
Tesla burns cash. It is not a car company. It's a cult of fanatics who think Elon Musk can do no wrong.
But financially, it doesn't work."
Wise words from one of the most respected car guys so do not try to belittle him, it would only show how anyone doing it is stupid and thick really.
Tesla is losing $$ hand over fist and soon the "free ride" will sadly end.
I hope the technology survives though, has great potential, it's just not there yet, maybe Porsche could show something real.
Great. Socialism. When all else fails let's trot that out.
Having failed to make any rational arguments I can see now why you had to drag your asinine politics into this. You would not know socialism if it hit you on the head. I guess people like you love to call things you dislike "socialism" because taking the time to understand what you are talking about is just hard.
The success of Tesla is the opposite of socialism. It is made possible by capitalism and Tesla investors who believe in the future of the company with their own money. Don't believe in Tesla the company, don't invest in their stock. Better yet, short the stock and see how well that works out for you.
Companies like Amazon were not created because Jeff Bezos listened to clueless idiots whining about capital expenditure investments to grow the company. Tesla is on the verge of building a company the scale of Mercedes. And this will necessitate massive investments. Tesla investors are of the opinion this is the right thing to do, much like Amazon investors.
I bet it is people like you who whine about how nothing is built in America while pissing on American companies like Tesla. Tesla is showing the world what we do the best in America and that is to believe in technology, entrepreneurship, takes chances, hire the smartest engineers in America and then build a product so great that none of the industry thought such a product was even possible. This is clearly evidenced by the fact that the automotive industry has yet to release a vehicle that is even remotely competitive with what Tesla released in 2012 even after Tesla essentially gave away their technology patents for free for anyone to use.
The Model S is such a great car that it is outselling in the US and Western Europe the finest 4 door sedan, the S Class, that Mercedes could build. No amount of your FUD and false assertions change the fact that more people decide to buy a Tesla Model S with about the same about of money that they could have used to buy an S Class.
The world has seen what American innovation is capable of with companies such as Microsoft, Google, and Apple. They will see yet again how America reinvents an entire industry with Tesla. It seems appreciating the success of an American car company like Tesla is too much for your asinine politics to handle.
Also interesting that you seem to take your advice about the future and innovation of the car industry from Bob Lutz. The guy who ran GM (to the ground, essentially) from 2001 to 2010 with such uninspiring crap buckets no one wanted to buy that by the end of his tenure the company was essentially bankrupt.
It's quite telling that Lutz is your hero and who you look to for advice. Knowing that Lutz is your source of opinions about Tesla the nonsensical FUD you have shared about Tesla now makes sense. Your views about Tesla is like listening to the Luditte Society about the future of technology
In the meantime BMW is so threatened with their sedan market sales in the US plummeting that they are taking out multiple ads to convince Tesla Model 3 reservation holders to buy their cars. Apparently BMW knows something you don't and that is that Tesla is on the verge of doing to BMW, Audi, and Mercedes what Apple did to the phone industry.
As an American it is great to see the finest cars in the world being in America.
Great. Socialism. When all else fails let's trot that out.
Having failed to make any rational arguments I can see now why you had to drag your asinine politics into this. You would not know socialism if it hit you on the head. I guess people like you love to call things you dislike "socialism" because taking the time to understand what you are talking about is just hard.
The success of Tesla is the opposite of socialism. It is made possible by capitalism and Tesla investors who believe in the future of the company with their own money. Don't believe in Tesla the company, don't invest in their stock. Better yet, short the stock and see how well that works out for you.
Companies like Amazon were not created because Jeff Bezos listened to clueless idiots whining about capital expenditure investments to grow the company. Tesla is on the verge of building a company the scale of Mercedes. And this will necessitate massive investments. Tesla investors are of the opinion this is the right thing to do, much like Amazon investors.
I bet it is people like you who whine about how nothing is built in America while pissing on American companies like Tesla. Tesla is showing the world what we do the best in America and that is to believe in technology, entrepreneurship, takes chances, hire the smartest engineers in America and then build a product so great that none of the industry thought such a product was even possible. This is clearly evidenced by the fact that the automotive industry has yet to release a vehicle that is even remotely competitive with what Tesla released in 2012 even after Tesla essentially gave away their technology patents for free for anyone to use.
The Model S is such a great car that it is outselling in the US and Western Europe the finest 4 door sedan, the S Class, that Mercedes could build. No amount of your FUD and false assertions change the fact that more people decide to buy a Tesla Model S with about the same about of money that they could have used to buy an S Class.
The world has seen what American innovation is capable of with companies such as Microsoft, Google, and Apple. They will see yet again how America reinvents an entire industry with Tesla. It seems appreciating the success of an American car company like Tesla is too much for your asinine politics to handle.
Also interesting that you seem to take your advice about the future and innovation of the car industry from Bob Lutz. The guy who ran GM (to the ground, essentially) from 2001 to 2010 with such uninspiring crap buckets no one wanted to buy that by the end of his tenure the company was essentially bankrupt.
It's quite telling that Lutz is your hero and who you look to for advice. Knowing that Lutz is your source of opinions about Tesla the nonsensical FUD you have shared about Tesla now makes sense. Your views about Tesla is like listening to the Luditte Society about the future of technology
In the meantime BMW is so threatened with their sedan market sales in the US plummeting that they are taking out multiple ads to convince Tesla Model 3 reservation holders to buy their cars. Apparently BMW knows something you don't and that is that Tesla is on the verge of doing to BMW, Audi, and Mercedes what Apple did to the phone industry.
As an American it is great to see the finest cars in the world being in America.
"Other people's money" -that's the key sentence.
As far as socialism knowledge?
I'm pretty sure I know a bit more then you ever will, spent 27 years living and breathing that monster until was finally able to leave and move to US.
Overall Tesla production is insignificant (compared to entire output of other luxury makers)and their growth is temporary, you are comparing their entire production to single model sales from BMW or MB (S-Class or 7 Series).
The Tesla 3 you rave about destroying the competition most likely will end up like Dany Bahar's new Lotus line-up.....
You are really laughable with your fanaticism.
Btw, I wonder how quickly you respond to that one, so far it looks like you hover over your keyboard to instantly bomb anyone who tries to criticize your beloved Tesla employer and God.
I fear critical thinking has left the building.
I used to equate the ability to afford nicer things with sufficient intelligence to avoid digging in on Ford v. Chevy arguments. I was wrong.
Continue to defend ICE in the comfort of whatever arguments you choose. Most make absolutely no sense whatsoever. I get it that something like a Tesla is not for everyone and I'm perfectly happy to participate in well reasoned arguments on both sides but taking absolute positions without flexibility seems to be in direct opposition to the idea of a public forum.
Porsche Taycan, Range Rover AB, Range Rover SVR, S Class, Mclaren 570s, Urus Hybrid (soon), M3, RS6
Originally Posted by WEBSRFR
I knew of this test run 4 weeks ago. It was not a Tesla Model S P90D as with Ludicrous Mode and with a recent update the Model S can now do the 0-to run in about 2.8s. They also just improved the quarter mile time to 10.8 seconds.
The world's fastest 0 o to 60 time for a production 4 door sedan is something that makes a Model S so fun to drive. I agree it is not a huge priority as we would still have bought a Model S if it was just marginally faster than an AMG model but the acceleration of a Tesla obliterates just about any AMG model and I certainly don't mind having that ability
In an instant the Tesla can generate over one lateral G so that's more than the G force you would feel when you skydive. Never fails to put a smile on my face and it is like having a personal rollercoaster on a nice day with no one on the road and you have a nice twisty road ahead of you.
I suppose I could post how well a Tesla performs on the AMG forum but with all the money they paid for their AMG cars I don't want to make them feel bad.
Plus you all would really miss me here if I went to the AMG forum
AMG owners wouldn't feel bad lol. If they wanted a P90D or a P85D I'm sure they know how to sell their car. The high performance Teslas have been out for over a year, if they wanted one they would have bought one ages ago. There is a lot more to a car than accelerating to 60.
Porsche Taycan, Range Rover AB, Range Rover SVR, S Class, Mclaren 570s, Urus Hybrid (soon), M3, RS6
Originally Posted by WEBSRFR
Ah you beat me to it! I was just going to post that for those who are claiming the upcoming Tesla Model is not affecting the premium car market already. BMW is running a whole bunch of ads now aimed at people who have a deposit for a Tesla Model 3. The Tesla Model 3 is one year away and BMW is already hurting or they would not be running ads just for the ~ 400,000 people who have a Tesla Model 3 reservation otherwise.
I guess BMW is feeling the loss of their 4 series sales declining by 22.6%, their 3 series sales declining by 22.9% and their 5 series sales declining by 14%. Just in the United States BMW is now missing about $722,000,000+ in sales YTD. The upcoming Tesla Model 3 and the ~400,000 deposits for the Tesla have something to do with this decline in sales as otherwise they would not be running multiple ads trying to get Tesla deposit holders to buy a BMW.
The Tesla Model 3 deposit holders will continue to hold onto their deposits and not buy competing combusting cars continuing to drag down the sales of the premium combusting car industry as we are witnessing now. Of course BMWs efforts with these ads will fail as they don't have a car that is even remotely competitive with the upcoming Tesla Model 3.
1. Autopilot: Nein!
2. Over the air software updates with new features: Nein!
3. All electric high performance drivetrain: Hölle Nein!
4. Nationwide fast charging Supercharger Network: Scheiße Nein!
5. Panoramic roof: Nein!
6. Range of over 200 miles on a single charger: Natürlich nicht!
7. Automotive industry's most intuitive touch screen interface: Scheiße Nein!
And the real kicker here is that while BMW spends money to lure Tesla customers with their ads, Tesla spends zero on advertising. Tesla has built up such a great reputation that their cars sell themselves.
Declining sales of the US Entry Level Premium Car Segment:
Tesla isn't affect no one in sales. In case you didn't know, the sales of a new facelift car decline after a year or two as everyone who will buy one new has bought one, and others will be buying them used. The Tesla Model 3 has sold zero cars FYI. We don't even know how many of the claimed deposits have given their deposit.
Porsche Taycan, Range Rover AB, Range Rover SVR, S Class, Mclaren 570s, Urus Hybrid (soon), M3, RS6
Originally Posted by TheTeslaDude
You have yet to convince anyone you've even seen a MS, much less driven one. None of the info you've written matches up with the realities of ownership.
You have yet to convince anyone except Websrfr that you've ever drove a Model S, much less own one. Perhaps you do, perhaps you're still in denial that people don't like the Model S. Most of us didn't buy the S Class for acceleration or being an electric car. I have yet to see a single person on these forums buy a Mercedes S500e/s550e.
The fundamental reason we don't have a Tesla is due to luxury. If we wanted performance and luxury the Audi S8, a car that I love, would be a fantastic alternative. I still don't understand why you guys are writing essays supporting either car. This may seem hypocritical, but over many pages I'm sure we can see that no one's mind will be changed by writing books worth of information on either car.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Maybe a couple of the more opinionated fellows on this thread could use an escrow service and place a big bet on Tesla's future success, or lack thereof. Sales numbers, or stock price, 5 or 10 years down the road or whatever, or maybe sooner if Tesla either goes bankrupt or gets bought out.
BTW I heard a well known hedge fund manager - David Einhorn, of Greenlight Capital - say earlier this year that he is (or was, then) short the stock, despite thinking the Model S is "a great car...I own one". OTOH I know of a couple technology hedge fund managers that are (or at least, were) long. I don't have a financial stake either way myself, unless one counts owning one of the cars.
WEBSRFR: Do you work for Tesla, Elon Musk or a subsiary? Do you have a financial stake in Tesla or Musk's companies?
Your chart is meaningless, as are your comments.
The deposits are refundable, so how many will actually result in sales? ZERO MODEL 3'S HAVE BEEN SOLD.
The BMW ads are simply good marketing and they are comparing their existing hybrid, NOT ICE vehicles. Also, Nissan had similar ads before BMW.
BMW is not running scared; just identifying a market and going after it.
Obviously you know nothing about the real automobile industry, much less marketing, selling products, finance, etc.
An article today suggests Elon Musk makes a habit of over-promising.
That.
....and blind fanatics like Websrfr who turn me off with Tesla.
The technology might win me over in the future, I am not, however, giving up the luxury, Consistent performance (not just stop light to light, I'm not a 16y pimply kid anymore) and fit and finish deserving a $100k plus car instead of one competing with econoboxes.
Hopefully Mission E will fit that bill, I'm hedging my bets and keep my name on the list for one of those.
Tesla Motors has lost money for TEN straight quarters. 2016 2nd quarter losses greater than anticipated. Losses increasing each quarter.
Investors are hanging with them, but for how much longer?
08-07-2016, 09:49 AM
