syswei

Then let's talk about 2016, which is where I started. Even you can recognize that 2016 is in the past? That demand for electricity grew in this country in 2016, in part due to EVs? That the utility industry ADDED NEW CAPACITY to meet that new demand? That according to the EIA chart, only 32% of that 2016 new capacity was fossil fuel fired?

syswei

Competition is a great thing. I see myself buying higher end than a Bolt, but don't mind the idea of getting a German EV down the road. I do find the Model S to be under-engineered in a number of respects, though overall I like it as much as the S550.

MTrauman

Like I need another vehicle in my household like I need a hole in my head--my insurance agent loves me with all the cars I own (by the way, I would never consider getting rid of my S550 for any Tesla--I absolutely cannot stand the fanboy mentality of the Tesla Cult members. But I will seriously consider buying the Bolt EV when it arrives in PA showrooms for the heck of it. The early indications are that it will be a winner as an entry level EV. I am interested in the EV space but Tesla owners have completely turned me off. Cannot wait until MB brings an EV online--just electrify the S550 and I am all in.

MBNUT1

+1

syswei

FYI guys AMG EVs likely on the way...eventually...
article

WEBSRFR

When EVs start doing this to a Bugatti Veyron, Mercedes AMG models are on their way to irrelevancy unless they go electric.

C280 Sport

Yup you are a typical American car buyer. You remind me of the GM/Ford groups. Hey look at my 0-60 times and top speed and 1/4 times. No one gives a hoot about performance anymore. Do you have any idea how many cars have beat a Bugatti Veyron?

Wolfman

This thread would make so much more sense if broken into two.

One to discuss EV's in general because there is lots to like and it's tech that will place a much larger role in future transportation. Not as fast as some people assume but in time it will dominate cars. Cool cars from many manufacturers coming in time...

Then there is the Tesla fanboy counter argument thread which is a pointless regurgitation of unmovable positions. Time to let it ride into the sunset...

PaulE550

+1

absent

I gave up already, you will never win any argument with fanatics....

krd2023

Actually, I'll continue to give great credence to the Consumer Reports Owner Satisfaction surveys and the like which provide reasonable and accurate assessments from us automobile owners indicating whether or not we'd buy a brand again. I won't be buying Mercedes again because of my sour new-car owner experience, again as outlined here: https://mbworld.org/forums/diesel-fo...tml?styleid=19

While we're on the "Tesla vs. Mercedes" subject in this thread, it's important to consider how these companies respond to their customers. I had significant issues with my dealer-maintained 2010 ML350 Bluetec and was reasonably pursuing assistance from MBUSA yet was finally met with a "cease and desist" order from them (please see attached copy in this post).

Tesla, on the other hand, continues to make rapid and positive upgrades to product challenges, advancements to their nascent technologies, and proves responsive to client requests. Here's a recent example of Elon Musk himself quickly resolving an issue after listening to client feedback:
http://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/elo...in-6-days.html

I don't yet drive a Tesla (so I suppose that qualifies me as a "fan-boy" but not yet a "fanatic" or part of the "cult"), but the future looks bright and I'll stick with brands who listen and positively respond to clients like me.

MTrauman

Just remember, IF (and a big if at that) Tesla is around for the long term they will eventually make a vehicle that has the same issue as your ML did. I also bought a 2000 ML 320 in 2000. The motor started to fail at 27000 miles and I argued with MB for almost a year until they replaced the motor at 37000 miles. This was the biggest piece of crap I ever owned. With that said, I continue to buy MB products (I currently own a '16 S Class and a E Class) and have owned atleast one S Class for an entire 20+ year period with my most recent S Classes being a '14 and a '16.


Your attitude is not unusual by saying you will not buy another vehicle made by a manufacturer since I did that with a 1993 Chevy Blazer I purchased new and after 3 years the body was rusting at the bottom of the doors. I said at the time I would never buy another Chevy product. I have gotten over that but I have not bought a Chevy product since 1993 only because other manufactures such as MB have produced awesome products. I am considering buying a Chevy Bolt however to get my fix of the electric car market as another car to the household. I will not buy a Tesla because Tesla overpromises and under delivers on many things the most recent being the issue of Model S buyers having free access to Superchargers. Look at the Tesla forums and you can see the discontent among the Tesla buyers. The fanatics brush over the issues because they drank the Tesla KoolAid while the ones with common sense challenge Tesla's overpromising. Another example is the most recent debacle on the promising people they will get AP2. Not only did they pay for AP2 and not get it but they also don't even have the basic cruise control.

El Cid

Saw the April 2017 CR (New Car Issue) at store today.
Tesla ranks 25th of 29 manufacturers for reliability based on owner reports.
And don't forget, EV's and hybrids are still a very minute portion of the American car market.

krd2023

El Cid, please provide a link to above if you can as I've been unable to locate the source you mention. It will be interesting to read the details of your findings.

In searches of articles, I continue to see great praise about Tesla from current owners and reviewers as found here: http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla...r-cars-2016-12

Tesla stock is back to climbing in 2017 and, although still volatile, looks promising this year: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/her...017-2016-12-30

And on a related note, El Cid, it seems to me MBUSA leadership didn't attain the stellar service levels they set out to accomplish under the leadership of Mr. Cannon (MBUSA CEO from 2011-2016, who then abruptly left the auto industry altogether in the year of the Volkswagen scandal revelations). I'll reference the related 2011 thread you started here: https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...mbusa-ceo.html

Finally, I'm surprised at the lack of forum input regarding the marketing book you directed me to prior, which prompted my second of two thread starts here: https://mbworld.org/forums/collectib...rated-yet.html
I thought I'd see input from MBUSA supporters if there existed meaningful service level successes.

Landers

My last service visit was terrible and I will absolutely not use the dealership again and might not buy another Mercedes. I have a 2013 S550 that is pretty much fully loaded. It has 29,000 miles on it and was over the warranty period by a month. I took the car in because the key fob worked to unlock doors but in the car it said key not detected. After doing enough research on the internet it is obvious a new key has to be ordered. I took it in and they wanted $200 just to diagnose the problem. I said the problem is pretty obvious based on research and I need a new key. They said they don't know that. I told them I will gladly pay $200 but if I do understand you are telling me you do not want my business. I asked him which is more important - my business or $200. He stated $200. They called me up a couple days later and lo and behold said I need a new key for $675. If a key won't last until 30,000 miles then I am not sure this is the right car brand for me. For a $120,000 car I expect to for people to use a little common sense. BTW our other car is a fully loaded GL450 and they know that since we bought it from them. I will likely be looking elsewhere come this summer. I probably would have bought another s class.

MTrauman

Sorry to hear your dealer appears to be an idiot.


With that said, I had a similar issue with an Acura MDX just out of warranty and it cost me (I think) around $500. So I am not sure I would make a buying decision based on this but to each his own.


Over the years I have owned all the major brands of cars and MB has been the best to work with in these issues even though from time to time things may be expensive and not exactly to your satisfaction. As an example, I purchased a new Ford F-150 pickup in 2012 and the Ford dealer refused and Ford warranty did not cover a defective rear widow defogger. Ford said either I or the dealer broke the wires in the rear window defogger and the dealer told me I broke the wires. The truck had 150 miles on it when I noticed this one week after taking delivery and dealer or the manufacturer screwed me since no one even sat in my SuperCrew 4 door pickup except me for the first week. It cost me $800 with 150 miles on the truck and I got the shaft. Another example is when I purchased a new 2000 MB ML320 and the motor started to fail at 27000 miles. Finally after one year of fighting with my MB dealer and MBUSA they finally replaced the motor at 37000 miles (this was the biggest piece of crap SUV I have ever owned). Some dealers just are ****ty period--MB, Ford, Chevy, Acura, Toyota, Lexus, etc. And vehicles break down from time to time.


ADDED AFTER ORIGNAL TEXT:


What does this have to do with Why One Should Not Buy A Tesla Model S?

Landers

It has nothing to do with Tesla at all. It was a response to krd2023 that talked about service. I guess what makes me mad more than anything is that I have $200,000+ worth of Mercedes sitting in my garage and they nickel and dimed me. Had they even made an effort to say "Hey we will knock $200 off the key fob price it would have been acceptable. If it was my dealership or company however I would have given the customer a new key for free. That would have pretty much insured that the customer would use one of my dealerships again and that I would have stuck my Mercedes in the future. One thing I do give Tesla is they seem pretty good to work with on the service side.

Wolfman

Sounds like the dealer dropped the ball. I am not sure who you spoke with but I would have a friendly conversation with the Service Manager (not the Advisor).
Tell them that this failure shouldn't occur on that car (mileage and age) and that you would like him to contact MB for a goodwill credit. After all you are a multi-MB owner with future buying potential.

MB will almost always fully reimburse all parts costs under goodwill if the car is out of warranty and less then 7 years/100k miles. EDIT: I mean parts that shouldn't break; obviously they won't cover consumables or parts that can break by external influence (bumpers, etc.)
But the SM has to be willing to ask the MB liaison to do that.
Stay reasonable and if they are not, tell them that your service survey will reflect that and that you'll take your business elsewhere.

Landers

Thanks for the reply but it was the service manager who said all of those things to me. I have not done the survey yet but let them know I will be honest when answering the survey. I get a call about every 4 months checking in if I want to buy a new car and told them it would likely be in April or May. When they call I am going to tell them the service manager told me he did not want my business.

ETA: Having said that I may reach out to the GM and ask for a Goodwill Credit.

El Cid

I read it in a print version (April 2017) at a newstand. You have to subscribe to CR's electronic version to access the article itself.
Remember, CR's reliability ratings are based on reporting from actual owners.

Tesla's stock is going up, but isn't everybody's going up now?

As for MBUSA & dealere service levels, I can only speak for myself. Great all this time. Always give them a 10 on everything except price. SA never tries to sell me something and even advises delaying some things due to low mileage.
No one has ever called trying to sell me a new car, but I do get emails about once a quarter advising of service and/or vehicle sales specials. Got one yesterday offering 20% off accessories.
Happy Motoring!

MTrauman

To back up El Cid in his read of the April 2017 Consumer Report guide he looked at:


For 2017, Tesla is ranked 25 out of 29 in the least reliable brands. Mercedes Benz is listed as 17 out of 29 in the reliable category.


I am a subscriber to Consumer Reports (online version) and for 2017 Tesla is ranked at the bottom for reliability.

MTrauman

First, MB operates as independent dealerships so you apparently have a "bad" dealer. My MB dealer is great and they have proven that over the past 25 years with me. Second, Tesla service is at the corporate level so they should have more control over its service network. But you should talk to ALL Tesla owners you can and review the Tesla Forums. I think you would be surprised at the service side. It is not as good as you may think. There are many more disenchanted Tesla owners and it appears that is growing everyday based on recent developments in things like AP1 and AP2 and promises that Tesla is not keeping. It also takes the average owner sometimes months to even get a service appointment to resolve basic issues. It is not all smiles in Tesla land if one looks close.

absent

That guy is an idiot and the owner should fire his *** ASAP for losing good customers.
Having said that, please do not judge the Brand , based on your horrible experience with an employee (who may have had a bad day, did not get laid, maybe was yelled at in the morning by his wife or his boss, etc).
I have purchased 17 AMGs since 2001, with the cheapest being E55 in 2003 and 7 different 65 series.
Some were bulletproof reliable, some were nothing but constant loaner in my garage with the actual car in service.
Never though had any problem with my dealer, in one case they even arranged a buyback by MBUSA before I even inquired about it (CL65).

Landers

Fair enough. I got the review yesterday and was honest and thorough. I didn't just rate everything a 1. For example they met me right away so I gave that a 10. I did ask to be contacted by MBUSA so it is now in the hands of MB and we will see how they handle it. If they end up doing the right thing (in my mind at least) then they likely can earn my business back. If not then they will make their statement as to how much they care about me as a customer. Either way it is not the end of the world. Thanks for the info and my loyalty to any car brand only lies in my experience.

WEBSRFR

The Tesla Model S reliability actually improved and ranks better than Mercedes for reliability.

Tesla's reliability scores got dinged with the launch of the Model X, perhaps the most complex vehicle engineered for mass-production. Tesla has now addressed just about all the Model X teething issues so their reliability numbers will improve significantly for 2017.

Although the Tesla brand did not fare so well in Consumer Reports' most recent annual reliability survey, there was one bright spot: the Model S.
Tesla's low overall ranking owed a lot toissues with its Model X crossover, such as problems with its falcon-wing doors. But the Model S managed to improve this year — it now has an "average" rating, and Consumer Reports is recommending people buy the car.

Consumer Reports had given the Model S high scores on metrics such as road tests and performance, but had held back a recommendation due to reliability concerns, said Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports' director of automotive testing, in an interview with CNBC.

"In terms of any new or redesigned vehicles, we often see a tumble on reliability," Fisher said. "As the years go by, we always see reliability continue to improve" as companies work out bugs and design issues.
"The fact that the Tesla Model S is average at all, is impressive, considering the short life of this company, when you have automakers such as Fiat Chrysler unable to make very conventional cars reliable, the fact that the Tesla Model S is average is a very impressive feat."

Source: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/24/why-c...ty-rating.html