WEBSRFR

Mercedes ranks way below Tesla for customer satisfaction. The real acid test is if someone would buy again. Tesla ranks #1 in the automotive industry with 91%.

Mercedes? They rank #19 with a rating of 69% -- just below Kia!



Source: http://www.consumerreports.org/car-r...-satisfaction/

Wolfman

Real acid test?

Provided the car has a low reliability it could also mean that the customer either has a lower standard or simply no choice (in the case of Tesla there are no comparable EV's on the market).

WEBSRFR

Actually the Tesla Model S, the sedan, has higher reliability than Mercedes. Any reliability issues Tesla had last year mostly had to do with the Model X, a car so complex to build many auto execs -- including some German, publicly proclaimed that it could not be built.

Fast forward to 2017 and just about all the Model X teething issues are completely resolved. While Mercedes and legacy auto companies work on 7 year cycles with 3 year refreshes Tesla enhances their cars continuously with about 20 improvements each week and major updates every year.

The bottom line is that study after study Tesla owners are more pleased with their cars than any other automotive product available to purchase. Perhaps it also has something to do with over the air software updates making Tesla vehicles better. While our Tesla keeps getting better with time our two Mercedes cars languish and get worse with time.

Sometime late this year or early next year Tesla owners are going to find that their vehicles are capable of fully autonomous driving with a software update. Mercedes will make you buy a whole new car to experience such an advancement and even that is likely 3+ years away.

Used to be that you bought a Mercedes to experience the pinnacle of automotive technology and engineering. Not any more. Mercedes does continue to offer very nice interiors though

MTrauman

WEBSRFR has NEVER owned an S Class Mercedes--he appears to have owned other Mercedes vehicles but as we know there is no other MB like the S Class. Notice how he talks about Mercedes and then compares the brand to the Model S conveniently for him and blames everything on the Model X?


This guy is the marketing arm for Tesla and is head of distribution for Tesla Kool Aid.


If he were in touch with realty and how Tesla owners truly feel after the AP1 and AP2 situation he would be able to see that even the biggest supporters of the Model S are becoming disenchanted with Tesla. They finally got cruise control to work based on the Tesla Forum. When buying a Tesla you are not buying a car, you are becoming Tesla's Beta Tester. See below just some info posted by another WEBSRFR friend on the Tesla Forums (Silver85Plus that came on this forum tearing apart MB on this thread). WEBSRFR and Silver85Plus are the biggest Trolls on this thread.




Enhanced AP HW2 Q&A (Lastest Firmware 17.3.15, Photos & Notes 1/28/2018)

Enhanced AP HW2 Q&A (Lastest Firmware 17.3.15, Photos & Notes 1/28/2018)



Submitted by SilverP85plus on December 27, 2016
If you have any questions about AP HW2, please post them here so we can keep everything in one thread. Whether it's a delivery question or when the software will be released question, please post here.
We have too many threads being created about this subject and it would be too difficult for one to research and find the answers they are looking for.
We will bump this thread so it can be visible to all with AP questions.
Thank you!
Latest firmware release: 17.3.15 (1/27/2017)
Current confirmed working list on AP HW2
1. Turn headlights on and off auto (they do NOT auto dim though)
2. Side collision warnings are present
3. Speed Assist (Cruise control)
4. Parking assist
5. Traffic-aware cruise control (Beta
6. Forward collision warning
7. Low-Speed Autosteer (Beta) 45mph
Current confirmed non-working list on AP 2.0
1. Auto windshield wipers
2. Auto high beam dimming of the headlights
3. Blind spot detection
4. Auto emergency braking
5. Side collision avoidance
6. Lane departure warning
7. Auto lane change
8. Autopark
9. Summon
10- Auto transition to another freeway
11- Auto freeway exit
Update : 12/31/2016
HW2 firmware uploading to 1000 cars starting the evening of 12/31/2016.
Please post what works and what does not
Reported, but not confirmed as of 12/31/2016 (8:15 eastern). Thanks Simply Red
The update includes the Autopilot’s Traffic Aware Cruise Control feature, Forward Collision Warning, and Autosteer, which is the flagship feature of the Autopilot, but it will only be enabled at “low-speed”, someone familiar with the update told Electrek.

Wolfman

I actually ventured over to the Tesla forum as MTrauman mentioned it a few times and am very surprised.

Seems like this S-Class forum is a pretty happy crowd. Apart from the usual small issues, annoyances and wish lists, nothing stands out for the W222.
The Model S forum seems to be a much harsher environment.

I am only posting this because WEBSRFR always like to paints this unrealistic picture of Tesla or Model S


Here is a Tesla member (over 2000 posts) summing it up:

absent

There is a reason the TROLL is here and not there.
Stop feeding the TROLL!

krd2023

WEBSRFR, Thanks for your continued helpful information. It's becoming clear to me that certain folks in this thread are refusing to recognize data and won't acknowledge feedback from our personal experiences with Mercedes. Certain users are set in their ways and may continue to resort to playground bullying tactics and name calling which frankly aren't worthy of replies. At least we've presented useful data along with our experiences here which are helping hundreds of viewers considering their next auto purchase or lease.

WEBSRFR

Your list of grievances from the Tesla forum is quite amusing considering how lacking Mercedes technology is by comparison:

AP1 Complaints: Yes, Tesla took a few extra months to deliver what was promised with the first version of Autopilot. But the fact remains that a Tesla Autopilot car from 2014 is vastly more capable than the lane keeping feature of a 2017 S Class that can barely stay on the lane without constant and incessant hand-holding by the driver.

Media Player: Yes the Tesla media player can be better and Version 8.1 out in about a month is expected to fix a most outstanding issues but the ease of selecting media from the Tesla screen makes the clunky brain dead command interface seems like using an abacus by comparison.

Navigation system? Oh please. The navigation system of our Mercedes vehicles is a half baked toy compared to the navigation system and maps on our Tesla. The tesla maps are constantly updated. The navigation has room for improvement and will get better unlike the navigation system of our Mercedes vehicles that will never ever get better with time.

Sure I wish our Tesla was better in certain ways but it remains vastly more technologically sophisticated than any Mercedes vehicle available to buy.

Complaints about wishing things were better notwithstanding, the fact remains that with a rating of 91%, Tesla represents the highest rated ownership experience of any vehicle available for purchase.

I seriously can't think of any major technology breakthroughs Mercedes has released to production in the last 3 years as they keep building cars with decades old combusting technology with smoke stacks and no over the air software updates.

The real acid test remains if someone would buy the same car again and by that measure the most satisfying ownership experience belongs to a certain American car company that builds the world most technologically supplicated cars right here in America. Every Tesla made since last year has full hardware for complete self driving with a future software update. Mercedes used to be in the forefront of this technology but they are now likely 3 years behind Tesla.

Wolfman

I have zero grievances with Tesla I wish the brand well.
This came from a Tesla member with over 2000 user posts and frankly, it was one of the nicer comments on the forum. This is a tough crowd and they do not share your enthusiasm...

That said, your whole write-up on Mercedes has no relevance, as usual.

MTrauman

WEBSRFR your comments are simply


You can't think of major breakthroughs of MB in the last three years. Really?


Who has pioneered Pre-safe Sound and has it in a production car (Tesla Forum members are asking when Pre-Safe Sound will be in a Tesla)? Who's seat moves in an impending crash to help prevent body injury? Certainly not Tesla. MB does this in the 2017 E Class. Oh that's right, Tesla buys parts from MB to make their cars.

WEBSRFR needs serious help. A Tesla troll at his best--or worst since his arguments are nuts.

absent

Not a very safe that fast fridge on wheels is, is it?

Landers

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/t...050100695.html

syswei

Latest crash testing article. I assume this is what absent is referring to.

sears1234

Tesla Model S fails to achieve top IIHS crash rating
https://electrek.co/2017/02/01/tesla...-crash-rating/

MTrauman

The fact is the Model S DID NOT achieve a top safety rating. They also were rated for poor headlights.


The Tesla Kool Aid drinkers will spin this into the Model S is the greatest thing ever but the realty is it failed to lived up to Musk's safety rants from April 2016 that he stated that the Model S will do better in all crash tests than any other vehicle. Again, overselling and underperforming. This is the Tesla theme.


Attached is the report from IIHS without the Tesla spin.

WEBSRFR

Two reasons for failing to achieve the top IIHS crash rating:

1. Seat belt configuration was not optimal. Tesla has already addressed this with a design change as of January 23rd. So this is done.

2. Crash avoidance mitigation. Tesla is just now incrementally activating the crash avoidance and autonomous driving capabilities of Autopilot Version 2.0 hardware installed fleet wide since October, 2016. Version 2 will come online fleet wide in a month or two.

There will be a retest of the Model S shortly and it is expected to address the outstanding issues. These immediate changes are possible because Tesla does not sit around a year, 3, or 7 to introduce improvements like legacy carmakers who build combusting cars.

Any notion or suggestion that Tesla vehicles are unsafe is utterly laughable. The Model S is as safe or safer than an S Class. The Model S is built like a tank but just as significant is the Tesla software that is constantly updated to not just avoid but PREDICT an impending accident.

Watch the compilation of Tesla crash avoidance videos below and listen to the quick beeps emitted by the Tesla autopilot system. That is when the Tesla knows that an accident is imminent and it takes certain countermeasures to actively avoid an accident.

The Tesla software is now so sophisticated it can predict the car in front of you hitting another car before the human driving the car in front of you even realizes they are about to get into an accident.

Unlike a Mercedes, with over the air software updates, the safety of Tesla vehicles actually improves with time. I've seen this video before but it is staggering how good the Autopilot software is in predicting and avoiding accidents. Even after watching the video once it is hard to believe how early the Tesla warning beeps and countermeasures begin before it is obvious (to most humans) that an accident is about to happen. This is a recent advancement where Tesla figured out how to bounce radar signals beneath cars to monitor the trajectory of tire contact surfaces of other vehicles. This feature then was activated fleet wide to every Tesla sold since 2014.

MTrauman

WEBSRFR,


Good thing my seat belt was optimal in my '14 S550 4matic when I hit a tree at 60mph. If I would have been in a Tesla maybe I would be dead!


Tesla is not the same as Mercedes Benz. Mercedes is a much better car company (maybe Tesla is a better solar panel company but not the best car company). I cannot tell if Tesla cares about safety (I assume they do) but I know Mercedes Benz does from all the innovation on the safety side of things over the years Mercedes Benz has been selling cars. WEBSRFR you can have your fast Tesla but if you get in an accident how can you be sure you will live to another day?


I hope Tesla survives but frankly these are the types of things that give me big pause about ever thinking about a Tesla. They oversell (under the wonderful Musk) and under deliver. This will prove out more and more over time.

MTrauman

I don't want to beat up on Tesla too much (only the people that are blind by the Tesla Kool Aid) since I do think they have done good things to bring a new type of vehicle to market.


With that said, it really is completely unbelievable to me that in todays car environment at a price point of $100K plus that a car like Tesla Model S cannot make a decent interior, have seat belts that have the proper tension to prevent an occupant from hitting the steering wheel (if this were a 1957 Chevy I would understand), and headlights that have the newest technology to provide good lighting on corners.


And WEBSRFR has the "*****" to state that MB has not had any technical innovations in the last three years that have made it to market.

syswei

2 items of Tesla news:

from Motor Trend

from USA Today

On the crash safety, I haven't read anything indicating their speed at the time, or whether autopilot was engaged (I'm assuming not, else I would have read as much). If it was a very high speed crash, we don't really know whether an W222 would have fared better...perhaps there would have been a gas fire, perhaps not.

Anyway my personal opinion is that when semi-autonomous driving is engaged, the Tesla feels safer than the W222. In my wife's words, semi-autonomous driving both on a divided but somewhat winding highway (speed limit 55 in some places, 50 in other places), "with the [Distronic Plus] Mercedes, I feel scared". But if there IS a crash, I'm not so sure which might be safer...the Tesla has its big front crumple zone, whereas the MB evidences more engineering effort in general.

syswei

Audi EV coming in 2018!!! This article was news to me...I didn't think we'd see luxury competition to Tesla that soon. Moreover, the article says the Audi e-tron will be on the same platform as the Porsche Mission E.

My wife has been saying recently that she'd prefer an SUV, basically for the ride height...she even went into the local Tesla dealer and our salesperson convinced her that she should wait a couple years before trading the Model S for an X, as depreciation on the S after only 6 months of ownership would be painful.

I'm guessing the Audi will beat the Model X in hands down in luxury, but not in semi-autonomous driving capabilities, but we'll have to see.

WEBSRFR

I am really glad Tesla is finally getting some competition with the upcoming EVs to be announced in 2018-2020. It will compel Tesla to build even better cars. Too bad it took combusting carmakers 6 years to build a competing vehicle. With the Model 3 expected to go into production later this year they will regret waiting this long trying to pretend that EVs are not the future.

Don't be so sure that by the time the Audi EV ships, the Model S interior will remain the same.

The heads of both Volvo and Porsche interior design now work for Tesla and we will see their work in the not too distant future. The Model S interior will be updated soon.

lolachampcar

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla...t-test-review/

I almost got our last tuned S600 to do this (NOT!). You gotta admit, it is one very quick Golf Cart

I have no idea why T owners feel the need to dis on the S Class. The Model S is obviously attractive as it has pulled some traditional S ownership away from MB but these are two dramatically different cars. Why the need to disparage such a nicely engineered, built and beautifully designed car? (and yes, that question goes to both sides)

El Cid

Electric vehicles are less than 2% of market in Europe and less than 1% in US
EV's had greatest year ever in US in 2016 and sold 159,000 compared to 17 MILLION vehicles sold overall. Over half of 2016 EV sales were in California which has an ZEV mandate.

The ICE is going to be with us for a very, very long time. If you are part of that 0.5% of Americans who want an EV, go for it. Note: not all of that 0.5% are Teslas.

As for CR's Would Buy Again ratings, that is the least reliable thing in everything they do. It is totally based on what the CR subscriber who completed a survey said. On my last three I said I would buy an MB E again, but I won't. The newer versions don't appeal to me, but I wanted to throw in some support for the MB Brand.
People may say they would buy again because otherwise they have to admit they made a mistake when they bought what they did buy. Or they may just be trying to pump up the Tesla or Porsche, etc. brands.
Regardless, it is contradictory for people to say they would buy a Tesla again and also report it's terrible reliability.

WEBSRFR

I for one have always had nothing but the highest regard for the interior of the Mercedes S Class. As I've always said, Mercedes makes great car interiors!

I'm just disappointed that, as a long time Mercedes customer, they no longer have any vehicles for me to consider buying as pretty much their entire lineup is still based on setting fire to little drops of dinosaur sludge. Mercedes has wasted too much time to build a high performance long range premium EV to compete with Tesla. And they've allowed themselves to get way behind in onboard software in the car including autonomous driving technologies.

Mercedes' lack of innovations has caused the S Class to lose significant market share in the US and unless they deliver a compelling EV to compete with the Model 3, Mercedes will see a large market share segment drop with the C Class as well.

By comparison, it seems Audi is moving full steam ahead with compelling EV offerings.

Landers

I think many people are disappointed in Tesla as well. When 1 spends $100,000+ on a car they have a few expectations:

1) That performance is on the upper level (It is for both the S-Class and the Tesla)
2) That the interior is up to some of the highest standards (It is on the S Class but not even close on the Tesla)
3) That the technology is near the top of the automotive landscape (IT is for both the S-Class and the Tesla in various areas)

If the Tesla had an interior closer to the S I think this is a very different conversation. For example Tesla's autopilot is a very nice system, but not when you have to use it in an interior that more fits a Chevy than a $100,000 car.