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Your moment of reckoning is already here with the Model S greatly outselling the S Class not just in the US but even in some European countries. When the Model 3 comes out, it will be brutal what will happen to Mercedes, BMW, Audi sales.
And for the guy whining about "battery preheating" if someone were to race him in a Tesla, let me just say that a P90DL or P100DL Tesla can hand your *** to you before your car has enough time to set fire to enough drops of dinosaur excrement. "Battery Preheating" in a Tesla will deliver that last 1/10 or 2/10th of a second in acceleration but this is hardly needed to leave non electric cars in the dust.
At a stop light I can make just about the entire Mercedes AMG lineup look tiny in my rear view mirror at will and in an instant, no battery heating needed. And I no longer even driver the fastest Tesla made anymore with the P100D delivering 0-60 times in 2.2s and is officially the fastest car ever tested by Motor Trend.
And.... No one cares. My God you are boring and sound like the JDM Kids back in High School. My XYZ is faster and more reliable then anything else. You honestly sound like a 5 year old because no one cares about 0-60 anymore. That went away many years ago. This thread was actually decent when you went away but yet come back in here with the same talk. Who here drives their car whatever it is 0-60 at full potential everyday? I bet no one lol.
Last edited by C280 Sport; 03-12-2017 at 10:19 PM.
is this true from what I read from othe rposters on the net?
Anonymous
Written Dec 25
Of course they lose often. The “world’s fastest production car” claim is just a product of marketing. I heard it runs a 10.8 in the 1/4 with a bad driver, assume 10.5 with a good one. That’s really great for a stock car, but who really leaves their car stock?
A Corvette runs 10.8s with a great driver and that’s passing with emissions in Cali stock on stock tires in good air. Shelbys are right around there with the whole too much weight - issue and run low 11s stock, but they don’t stop after a few pulls either, heat does become an issue but it doesn’t take 50% of the power.
After 9.99 you need a roll cage according to NHRA and they changed that from 10.99 a few years ago because of new Corvettes, Vipers, Shelbys. It used to take building a car to run 10s now it just takes a credit score, so it’s not like Tesla was doing any of this first, just first at making EV style excuses when they do lose.
Really disrupted the excuse machine racers have had since the second car was built and it was raced against the first one. The same excuse machine that was used when horseless carriages were racing horse teams and getting beat.
I beat one of the ones before the P100D, the 80 or 90 or whatever fax machine name it has, the guy had it cranked all the way up too but I beat him pretty bad 2+ car lengths. It was a street race so not really quite a drag race in the traditional sense but a straight line 0–120 mph race. I’m sure the 100d isn’t much better.
The P100D is really slow most of the time because it weighs so much. It does have a boosted mode but it rarely works and even when it does the car doesn’t like to accelerate beyond 75 or so the way it likes to accelerate to 60.
Unlike other cars, even non performance oriented ones like those sold by Kia, it is not capable of making full power all the time. Compared to other actual performance cars, even ones with four doors, it does not maintain power for a usable amount of time at all beyond one or two very short races before it loses half of it’s power.
The way some performance cars accelerate well beyond 100 mph, the Tesla doesn’t maintain the torque long enough to achieve the same results, every car has drag though but it quits pulling sooner.
Tesla owners are quick to point out that “Tesla owners don’t go to the track very often and is great that it can do what it can do” on the occasion that it can and feels like it and actually wants to and will do it without overheating or losing all range.
I’m hopeful Tesla gets it’s act together and either goes racing if they keep making claims, that way Tesla fans can quit looking so pathetic. If they don’t do that maybe they’ll look into solar technology and make a car you don’t have to plug in so it can at least recharge itself. If they don’t do something they should just quit and focus on space.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by Socalsteve
Don't care how fast or slow it goes. I'll wave to you from my S Class as you are charging your Model S ( or whatever version EV car you have ) as I drive by comfortably with my AC on and NO range anxiety.
I believe we are still a few years away from EV's being viable for the general public. Infrastructure and range is not here yet.
They are viable now as a second car. Lots of members of the general public belong to 2+ car families. If you have a Tesla as a second car, not taking it on long trips, you charge at home at night...spending LESS of your precious time fueling than you do for an S Class.
Actually , here is a better comparison. I guess the Tesla is quick but not a fast car. A Lexus IS F can beat it on 1/2 mile drag race.
Published on May 12, 2016
All Electric Tesla ModelS 70D Takes on a Lexus IS F in a Half Mile Drag Race!
Specs:
Tesla Model S 70D Base MSRP $76,000 -
328hp 406ftlbs for 230 miles
AWD 4,608 lbs
Electric Motors: 259hp Front & 259hp Rear with a 70 kWh lithium-ion Battery
Top Speed: 140 MPH
Lexus IS-F: Base MSRP $60,000 -
416 hp 371 ftlbs - 5.0-liter V-8
23MPG - 8 Speed Auto RWD 3780 lbs
Top Speed: 170 MPH
They are viable now as a second car. Lots of members of the general public belong to 2+ car families. If you have a Tesla as a second car, not taking it on long trips, you charge at home at night...spending LESS of your precious time fueling than you do for an S Class.
So, you are saying that lots of members of the general public can afford two $100k plus cars? And, that they all live in places where they have access to a private charging station overnight?
People who are out of your equation:
Apartment dwellers
Single people
People who don't make 6 figure incomes
People who don't need 2 cars
I am sure I am missing lots more categories.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by Socalsteve
So, you are saying that lots of members of the general public can afford two $100k plus cars? And, that they all live in places where they have access to a private charging station overnight?
People who are out of your equation:
Apartment dwellers
Single people
People who don't make 6 figure incomes
People who don't need 2 cars
I am sure I am missing lots more categories.
What world are you living in?
I suggest you refrain from posting on subjects that you are ignorant about.
Have you heard of this $30k after tax credit EV (which happens to also be the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year)? Or the $35k before tax credit forthcoming Tesla Model 3? Those are not so different from the average priced new car in this country, which runs $33,560.
The average household in this country owns 1.9 vehicles.
There are 125.8 million households in the US, of which 28.5mm live in multi-family structures (of which a small but increasing number offer EV charging). Ergo, >77% of households live in single-family homes.
You don't need much of a "private charging station" (such as a Tesla Wall Connector)...a simple 240V NEMA 14-50 outlet is what I use. It cost me less than $400 to have installed, parts included (though the electricians Tesla referred wanted $800+).
Sounds like the dealer dropped the ball. I am not sure who you spoke with but I would have a friendly conversation with the Service Manager (not the Advisor).
Tell them that this failure shouldn't occur on that car (mileage and age) and that you would like him to contact MB for a goodwill credit. After all you are a multi-MB owner with future buying potential.
MB will almost always fully reimburse all parts costs under goodwill if the car is out of warranty and less then 7 years/100k miles. EDIT: I mean parts that shouldn't break; obviously they won't cover consumables or parts that can break by external influence (bumpers, etc.)
But the SM has to be willing to ask the MB liaison to do that.
Stay reasonable and if they are not, tell them that your service survey will reflect that and that you'll take your business elsewhere.
So I contacted MB and they basically said that they were willing to sell me a new key for $250 instead of $600. I told them I expected a $120,000 car key to last until at least 30,000 miles. BTW my wife's key did the same thing on her GL450 two weeks ago and we have not even hit 50,000 miles. What we explained to MB is that they can certainly do whatever they want, but we will be replacing 2 cars within the next 90 days and if they choose to not make this right we will take our business elsewhere. They stuck to their guns. Last week we got rid of the GL450 and replaces it with a Lexus and the S550 will be getting replaced within 60 more days. This replacement was planned so these were not replaced because of this situation, but MB was loud and clear that they no longer wanted our business. Since we replace our cars about every 3 years and we only have about 30+ years left they only lost out on about 20 more cars we will buy in our lives. Hope $200 was worth it.
To each his own. There are those that will love and buy Tesla's, and there are those that will love and buy S Class MB's instead - for years and years to come. There are those that prefer a BMW 750i or BMW B7. Some prefer the Tesla and others prefer the MB but why do we have to argue about it here, that one is SO much better than the other? They're not not. This is "ludicrous" all right. Some of us sound like children here out on the playground with their boats and claims of superiority.
In a way, who cars how fast one car goes next to another when it's 1 second difference? Most drivers, like.... 90% or more, could never really get a car to go as fast as it's rated to go, 0-60. We're just not that good drivers to do this and have this skill. Nor is it that utterly important due to traffic in our areas of the world, mostly.
Neither the Tesla or S Class is better than the other. It's simply up to personal taste. I prefer the look, feel, expansiveness, interior, exterior and history of the MB S Class. It's a solid car with tons of back seat space and I can drive to NYC in it from DC without worrying about range anxiety one bit.
I LOVE that about my car. Just stop for 5 min, fill it up with gas, and go on my way. No special charging situations, I can on a whim, drive to Chicago or Miami if I want and not worry about where I'll get ... gas.
I would never, ever buy an electric car the way it all works now. I have friends that would never, ever buy a MB S Class and have 2 Tesla's in their garage and love them. They respect my car opinions and I their's.
As Rodney King said, "Just want to say - you know - can we all get along? Can we, can we get along?"
So I contacted MB and they basically said that they were willing to sell me a new key for $250 instead of $600. I told them I expected a $120,000 car key to last until at least 30,000 miles. BTW my wife's key did the same thing on her GL450 two weeks ago and we have not even hit 50,000 miles. What we explained to MB is that they can certainly do whatever they want, but we will be replacing 2 cars within the next 90 days and if they choose to not make this right we will take our business elsewhere. They stuck to their guns. Last week we got rid of the GL450 and replaces it with a Lexus and the S550 will be getting replaced within 60 more days. This replacement was planned so these were not replaced because of this situation, but MB was loud and clear that they no longer wanted our business. Since we replace our cars about every 3 years and we only have about 30+ years left they only lost out on about 20 more cars we will buy in our lives. Hope $200 was worth it.
I guess we are lucky to have more reasonable dealers where we live. This would have been a non-issue here.
Sorry to hear that you are switching brands for that. Good luck with your new cars!
I guess we are lucky to have more reasonable dealers where we live. This would have been a non-issue here.
Sorry to hear that you are switching brands for that. Good luck with your new cars!
So MB direct and not through the dealer?
If so, I wish they would have done better. Keys however may be viewed as a wear and tear part and consider a partial discount enough.
The price of the car may also not be as much of an argument as the keys are the same between a $40k and $200k MB. Grossly overpriced. It's a $20 product made expensive by a cumbersome secure replacement process.
So MB direct and not through the dealer?
If so, I wish they would have done better. Keys however may be viewed as a wear and tear part and consider a partial discount enough.
The price of the car may also not be as much of an argument as the keys are the same between a $40k and $200k MB. Grossly overpriced. It's a $20 product made expensive by a cumbersome secure replacement process.
Correct through MB. They can give any reason they like. Certainly within their rights and I explained to MB the same thing. I will be replacing 2 cars within the next 90 days and they have 2 choices. If they charge me I will be replacing the GL450 in a week or two with a different SUV. If not then I will be purchasing a GL550. They chose to charge me so we bought a Lexus 9 days ago. In 60 days I will be replacing the S550. We also did not purchase the key as we have a second key and since I only have about 60 days left it won't matter. If a company is too stupid to make the decision they did then they lose my business.
Will be interesting to see what happens when the Trump administration completes its plans to virtually eliminate MPG and emissions goals for automobiles.
Then couple that with removal of restrictions on drilling, transporting and refining oil, etc.
The $7,500 tax credit for EV's is probably doomed as well.
So I contacted MB and they basically said that they were willing to sell me a new key for $250 instead of $600. I told them I expected a $120,000 car key to last until at least 30,000 miles. BTW my wife's key did the same thing on her GL450 two weeks ago and we have not even hit 50,000 miles. What we explained to MB is that they can certainly do whatever they want, but we will be replacing 2 cars within the next 90 days and if they choose to not make this right we will take our business elsewhere. They stuck to their guns. Last week we got rid of the GL450 and replaces it with a Lexus and the S550 will be getting replaced within 60 more days. This replacement was planned so these were not replaced because of this situation, but MB was loud and clear that they no longer wanted our business. Since we replace our cars about every 3 years and we only have about 30+ years left they only lost out on about 20 more cars we will buy in our lives. Hope $200 was worth it.
I even said that to them a few times. It said key not detected. It would unlock and lock the door still. When you hit the ignition button it would just say key not detected. Tried different batteries and used the battery from the key that did work. No fix. Key had a rubber case around it and not only was it never dropped, it was never removed from my wife's purse which has its own little key pocket and it was the only thing in that pocket. You could not treat a key better than that one.
The failing keys is a sign of the biggest problem in automobiles today. The very high failure rates of technology and inability to determine why or fix it. The dealerships are often stymied because they have neither the expertise nor the equipment to test all the systems. The support from manufacturer is not much better. The answer is just to replace the whole thing.
In 2006, I purchased the most expensive Hyundai model and one of features was programming it so I could start car with a "code" using key if immobilizer failed to recognize the key. Worked fine, but then got dealer to change code to a simpler one. They could not start the car. They called Hyundai and tried several things with no luck. Ordered a new $1,200 (2006 prices) main computer for the car. Came in next day. When they went to start the car, it cranked right up. Apparently the system needed a few hours to reboot or something.
SA told me that the car actually had 11 different computers.
Have had multiple tech problems with MB and one with a 2014 Nissan Rogue.
Instead of spending money to make cars go faster, etc., spend it on improving the technology they keep adding to cars.
Make what they have really the best - and then back it.
The failing keys is a sign of the biggest problem in automobiles today. The very high failure rates of technology and inability to determine why or fix it. The dealerships are often stymied because they have neither the expertise nor the equipment to test all the systems. The support from manufacturer is not much better. The answer is just to replace the whole thing.
In 2006, I purchased the most expensive Hyundai model and one of features was programming it so I could start car with a "code" using key if immobilizer failed to recognize the key. Worked fine, but then got dealer to change code to a simpler one. They could not start the car. They called Hyundai and tried several things with no luck. Ordered a new $1,200 (2006 prices) main computer for the car. Came in next day. When they went to start the car, it cranked right up. Apparently the system needed a few hours to reboot or something.
SA told me that the car actually had 11 different computers.
Have had multiple tech problems with MB and one with a 2014 Nissan Rogue.
Instead of spending money to make cars go faster, etc., spend it on improving the technology they keep adding to cars.
Make what they have really the best - and then back it.
Agreed. It is also why IMO you have to look at the situation which in my case is we have a guy who has $200,000 worth of cars and it is obvious that he replaces his cars every 2-3 years and we are coming up on that. We might want to take care of the guy here. In fact let me tell you what I would have done. I would have told me that when you come to bring your car and purchase a new one, whatever we negotiate the price to be on that new car, we will subtract $600 from that number as a courtesy because you had to go through this.
Agreed. It is also why IMO you have to look at the situation which in my case is we have a guy who has $200,000 worth of cars and it is obvious that he replaces his cars every 2-3 years and we are coming up on that. We might want to take care of the guy here. In fact let me tell you what I would have done. I would have told me that when you come to bring your car and purchase a new one, whatever we negotiate the price to be on that new car, we will subtract $600 from that number as a courtesy because you had to go through this.
That's a solution to your problem.
But the real answer is to do a better job of developing, designing and manufacturing in the first place. Do not be in a rush to place the latest phone/computer technology in automobiles.
It's a car, not a computer or communications device.
Agreed. It is also why IMO you have to look at the situation which in my case is we have a guy who has $200,000 worth of cars and it is obvious that he replaces his cars every 2-3 years and we are coming up on that. We might want to take care of the guy here. In fact let me tell you what I would have done. I would have told me that when you come to bring your car and purchase a new one, whatever we negotiate the price to be on that new car, we will subtract $600 from that number as a courtesy because you had to go through this.
Which Lexus did you get instead of a MB? the LX570 or something like that? I don't like the styling as much on the new Lexus models near as much as the MB equivalent so I would have bought the MB anyway, even though I felt screwed on the key issue. In the end, you wanted the Lexus more so you got that. I'm guessing you went to the GM of the dealership and not just the service manager? You went all the way to the top on this and they still said, no?
If you wanted the MB more, you would have bought it instead - regardless of this situation with the key. It's all good. Such is life. Life is not perfect, that's for sure. Your Lexus could have the same issue in 2 years with a key and they could treat you to the exact same "no" scenario. You never know... it's possible.
My understanding is that the keyless start fob is "on" as soon as you get near the car and that it stays "on" as long as you are in or near the car. That creates a huge drain on the battery and the technology of the key fob.
Found the below article re: hidden dangers of keyless start. May have been corrected by now.
That's a solution to your problem.
But the real answer is to do a better job of developing, designing and manufacturing in the first place. Do not be in a rush to place the latest phone/computer technology in automobiles.
It's a car, not a computer or communications device.
You are starting to sound silly...
Keyless go is ancient tech (Had that 17 years ago). Of the many millions of these keys around, a non-working key is simply not a common issue. Only that would indicate a design flaw...
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by Wolfman
You are starting to sound silly...
Keyless go is ancient tech (Had that 17 years ago). Of the many millions of these keys around, a non-working key is simply not a common issue. Only that would indicate a design flaw...
MB IMO is the sort of company that will typically blame the customer, not its own design/manufacturing. I could see them saying that a key problem "must be" due to the customer sending the key through a clothes washer.
Well before I every owned an MB, I remember reading that with W219(?) the tires would develop slightly flat spots due to the weight of a the car and insufficiently specced tires, and MB was in denial for a long time. It took lawsuits to make them come around.
MB IMO is the sort of company that will typically blame the customer, not its own design/manufacturing. I could see them saying that a key problem "must be" due to the customer sending the key through a clothes washer.
Well before I every owned an MB, I remember reading that with W219(?) the tires would develop slightly flat spots due to the weight of a the car and insufficiently specced tires, and MB was in denial for a long time. It took lawsuits to make them come around.
I am not defending MB but the previous argument was just over the top for such old tech. MB produces millions of cars a year with a decent portion of keyless go models. Add that these had no dramatic design updates for a very long time, a design flaw would make that in the hundreds of thousands.
Your argument is just the same. Blaming MB based on some hypothetical theory of yours.
I agree with Landers that MB should have just covered it but stuff breaks and keys are not excluded from it.
03-12-2017, 10:17 PM
