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Why One Should Not Buy A Tesla Model S

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Old 04-27-2018, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lsdreem
Reviving this thread just cause its not the same without seeing it at the top of the thread list.
This thread is dead. Just leave it that way...
Syswei has opened a new thread that is more relevant and interesting moving forward...
Old 05-03-2018, 09:47 AM
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Tesla reports worst quarter ever... Lol.
Old 05-06-2018, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Ariesfamous
Tesla reports worst quarter ever... Lol.
I don't like the car itself and I'm not convinced yet about viability and superiority of electric cars over ICE.
Having said that, I would really hate to see Tesla go down, they made a huge contribution to the "electric" idea, proved that these cars can be fun and luxury also and most of all, forced the major manufacturers not to sit on their laurels but get back to work on new technology pronto.
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Old 05-06-2018, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by absent
I don't like the car itself and I'm not convinced yet about viability and superiority of electric cars over ICE.
Having said that, I would really hate to see Tesla go down, they made a huge contribution to the "electric" idea, proved that these cars can be fun and luxury also and most of all, forced the major manufacturers not to sit on their laurels but get back to work on new technology pronto.
Although I will never own an electric car, so help me baby Jesus, I can get behind this thinking.
Old 05-06-2018, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Ariesfamous
Although I will never own an electric car, so help me baby Jesus, I can get behind this thinking.
As the saying goes, "never say never". I suspect you'll be proven wrong, in time. It may take 10 years, it may take 20 or even 30.

Last edited by syswei; 05-06-2018 at 09:43 AM.
Old 05-06-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by absent
I don't like the car itself and I'm not convinced yet about viability and superiority of electric cars over ICE.
Having said that, I would really hate to see Tesla go down, they made a huge contribution to the "electric" idea, proved that these cars can be fun and luxury also and most of all, forced the major manufacturers not to sit on their laurels but get back to work on new technology pronto.
Yes, Tesla has definitely helped progress the industry. Even apart from EV, they have helped push the industry in autonomous driving, and over-the-air updates.
Old 05-07-2018, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by syswei
Yes, Tesla has definitely helped progress the industry. Even apart from EV, they have helped push the industry in autonomous driving, and over-the-air updates.
Over the air updates yes.

Autonomous driving now a days have all came from MB and even GM.. My old W220 S500 Class had basically a lesser version of what we have now with radar cruise and all of that. 2010 E had pre safe and distronic and blind spot and all of the stuff found on modern cars. Tesla took what was already available and went further with it.
Old 05-08-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by C280 Sport
Over the air updates yes.

Autonomous driving now a days have all came from MB and even GM.. My old W220 S500 Class had basically a lesser version of what we have now with radar cruise and all of that. 2010 E had pre safe and distronic and blind spot and all of the stuff found on modern cars. Tesla took what was already available and went further with it.
Yes I agree that Tesla's autonomous technology isn't really that great, or that early, it's more a question of them willing to push the envelope as far as letting those systems do more work. Plus they have marketed it well. So due to the combination of those 2 factors imo more prospective buyers are looking for semi-autonomous features; in that way, I think they have helped push the industry to work on autonomous harder than they might have in the absence of Tesla.
Old 07-18-2018, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ariesfamous
Tesla reports worst quarter ever... Lol.
LOL? Hello my favorite peeps Just stopped by to see what's up and I see that denial is alive and well!

I really don't think Mercedes, BMW, and Audi are laughing any more. Tesla reported their "worse quarter yet" because they are investing to ramp up Model 3 production to hundreds of thousands of vehicles a year and take over the premium car market from Mercedes and the other German manufacturers. The Model S has now for years been the best selling premium car around $100K in the US and Europe. It looks like the Tesla Model 3 is now the best-selling midsize premium sedan in America and they have just begun ramping up production of the Model 3. If it was not before, loss of market share just got real and painful for Mercedes because they dragged their feet in building modern electric vehicles. I'm sure Mercedes has seen these numbers and the trendlines and they are most certainly not laughing.

I still love our Model S as much as the day we bought it and it remains the single most satisfying purchase I've ever made. Thanks to the over the air software updates our car is now faster and vastly more capable than the car we initially bought. Just waiting for the interior upgrade to trade ours in for a P100D. It's 2018 and Mercedes has yet to release an electric vehicle to match the capability of what Tesla released in 2012. I doubt I'm the only customers Mercedes has lost to Tesla.

For those who are still laughing, keep laughing thinking that this electric car thing is a fad. It is not


Source: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/06/...premium-sedan/

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Old 07-18-2018, 09:12 PM
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WEBSRFR is not Dead! After 11 months he is “dumping” his garbage Tesla Advertising. Eleven months of a normal MBWORLD. Now the Troll is back! I thought after starting this thread at some point it would die but WEBSRFR is not dead so here we go with the garbage talk from WEBSRFR.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by WEBSRFR
LOL? Hello my favorite peeps Just stopped by to see what's up and I see that denial is alive and well!

I really don't think Mercedes, BMW, and Audi are laughing any more. Tesla reported their "worse quarter yet" because they are investing to ramp up Model 3 production to hundreds of thousands of vehicles a year and take over the premium car market from Mercedes and the other German manufacturers. The Model S has now for years been the best selling premium car around $100K in the US and Europe. It looks like the Tesla Model 3 is now the best-selling midsize premium sedan in America and they have just begun ramping up production of the Model 3. If it was not before, loss of market share just got real and painful for Mercedes because they dragged their feet in building modern electric vehicles. I'm sure Mercedes has seen these numbers and the trendlines and they are most certainly not laughing.

I still love our Model S as much as the day we bought it and it remains the single most satisfying purchase I've ever made. Thanks to the over the air software updates our car is now faster and vastly more capable than the car we initially bought. Just waiting for the interior upgrade to trade ours in for a P100D. It's 2018 and Mercedes has yet to release an electric vehicle to match the capability of what Tesla released in 2012. I doubt I'm the only customers Mercedes has lost to Tesla.

For those who are still laughing, keep laughing thinking that this electric car thing is a fad. It is not


Source: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/06/...premium-sedan/
your so wrong in every way. Tesla is now a 6 year old car. The exterior and interior are so dated beyond belief. Mercedes design blows Tesla out the door. Everyone thinks Tesla’s are an investment that’s why all the dorks are buying it. The same people buying Tesla’s are the idiots thinking everything in life is a investment. Can’t wait when Elon musk bounces and all you Tesla fan boys start crying and fire sale all your dumb Tesla’s
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:07 AM
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The lack of design, looks and the extra large iPad, oh and the engine/exchust sound of a sports sedan. Oh and the recent death of drivers using autopilot.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:05 AM
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Latest reports are that Tesla is having production problems at the factory. Has it made an actual profit yet? Latest problematic influence is Elon Musk's episode with his submarine and the Thailand cave rescue. Then add in all of the above.
They have been "ramping up" for years now and still haven't got there? Six months does not a success make in the automotive world.
The problem or concern is not with electric vehicles, but with Tesla itself. Even Consumer Reports is beginning to be less positive about the vehicles.
Bottom line, you can drive proven, reliable vehicles with long term resale values or you can ride in the latest trendy appliance.
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Old 07-20-2018, 09:53 PM
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Why are you guys reviving this thread? You are feeding the troll. Syswei has a less popular but very informative thread on EV's. This one on there other hand is a colossal waste of time...
Old 07-23-2018, 06:25 AM
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Tesla is just about done with their normal new car production headaches. They seem to be shipping decent quantities of Model 3, the performance version is getting good reviews and quality is improving. Just like our current experiment in politics, the proof is in what actually happens and not in what people want to say happened. I do not think it is going too far out on a limb to say that Model 3 will be a raving success and several engineering firms have already commented about the available margins once Tesla gets production sorted. All the rest is noise
Old 07-24-2018, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by syswei
Yes I agree that Tesla's autonomous technology isn't really that great, or that early, it's more a question of them willing to push the envelope as far as letting those systems do more work. Plus they have marketed it well. So due to the combination of those 2 factors imo more prospective buyers are looking for semi-autonomous features; in that way, I think they have helped push the industry to work on autonomous harder than they might have in the absence of Tesla.
Cadillac CT6 Super Cruise, best yet...
Old 08-01-2018, 05:24 PM
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Just read the Q2/18 letter and awaiting earnings call...... M3 now shipping in sufficient volumes and with positive margins to have the company go cash positive. So much for going under
Old 08-03-2018, 10:50 AM
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I've driven several different Tesla models, I can safely say that the interior quality is subpar compared to the S-Class interior ( or any MB interior for that matter ) I noticed rattles and just there is just overall cheap materials, felt very cold, not warm and inviting like the interior of an S-Class. It's also funny that Tesla's use Mercedes switchgear ( window switches, gear selector, etc). The gimmick of all electric instant torque wears off after a while and you're left with an overpriced, boring car that makes no sound at all, and therefore any squeaks or rattles in a gas powered car are even more noticeable in a Tesla. It's scary that you can pay under 100k and get one hell of an S-Class but pay 150k and still get a bare bones, basic Tesla..just my .02
Old 08-03-2018, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by lolachampcar
Just read the Q2/18 letter and awaiting earnings call...... M3 now shipping in sufficient volumes and with positive margins to have the company go cash positive. So much for going under

Another Perspective Perhaps? Below:

Questions I'd be Asking If I Owned Tesla Stock

Advisor Perspectives welcomes guest contributions. The views presented here do not necessarily represent those of Advisor Perspectives.Here’s a big question I’d be asking if I owned Tesla stock: What happened to 345,000 reservations?

When Tesla’s Model 3 was released, it was supposed to be a $35,000 car. Four hundred thousand people, including yours truly, put down a $1,000 deposit to reserve their spots in line so they could get their hands on that marvel as soon as it became available. It was a brilliant move by Tesla, as it provided the company $400 million of interest-free financing – the biggest crowdfunding project ever.
Today, after some delays, the Model 3 is being produced. However, $35,000 seems to have been a fiction of CEO Elon Musk’s imagination. Though the car is getting great reviews from auto critics, the price for a bare-bones Model 3 starts at $49,000, and the tax incentives are fading away.

But something interesting happened recently. I received an email from Tesla that said: Model 3 is available to order, and no reservation is required in the U.S. We’re now offering all our best options – including our Long Range and Performance configurations with dual motor all-wheel drive. You can design and order yours today for delivery in approximately 2–4 months.

On the surface this sounds like great news, except that it begs a question: What happened to 345,000 orders? Let me explain. According to Bloomberg, which has been tracking Tesla’s production, to date (as of July 28, 2018) Tesla has produced 55,000 Model 3 cars. Since a $1,000 deposit was supposed to secure buyers a place in line, any car ordered today will only be delivered after orders that were placed years ago are fulfilled – after all, 400,000 people paid Tesla $1,000 to hold their places.


Thus there are only three possible explanations for the email I received. One is that Model 3 production is expected to accelerate at an exponential rate to 40,000 cars a week, starting now. However, Bloomberg estimates that Tesla’s normal production cadence of the Model 3 is closer to 2,825 cars a week, so this is a highly unlikely scenario.

Or two, maybe Tesla has been extremely liberal with its statement of a two-to-four month delivery schedule because it still has 345,000 cars to produce before it can start fulfilling new orders, and the company is using that email to raise additional funds from new customers making deposits. (The required deposit is now $2,500.)

There is a third explanation: The bulk of the original 400,000 orders were for a $35,000 car. When it came time to actually buy the car, consumers may have realized that the out-of-pocket expense was much more than expected and simply canceled their orders, draining Tesla’s balance sheet of $345 million.

This brings us to the next question: How sound is Tesla’s balance sheet?

What Musk has achieved with Tesla and SpaceX is truly astounding. I have incredible respect for him, but he is also a magician playing a confidence game. If Musk can continue to convince the market that Tesla has a bright future, then the market will continue to finance Tesla’s losses, and maybe Musk will figure out how to produce the Model 3 more cheaply and then Tesla will sell hundreds of thousands of Model 3s and the future will be as bright as Musk paints it.

For that to happen, Tesla needs to maintain its high stock price, and investors have to believe that Musk is the Iron Man. Investors have to suspend belief, ignore current problems, and focus on the future. However, if the market loses confidence in Tesla and Musk, Tesla is done. This company is losing billions of dollars a year; it has an over-levered balance sheet. This is where Musk’s confidence game comes in.

If you believe in magic stop reading right now. Okay, you’ve been warned.

There is no magic. Magic is just the art of misdirection. The magician gets you to focus on the shiny object he holds in his left hand and you don’t see what he is doing with his right hand.
Musk has been showing us a lot of shiny objects. Some are real, like the success of SpaceX; some are superfluous, like sending a Tesla Roadster into space, and some are future promises on which Musk may or may not be able to deliver, like his futuristic underground railroad for cars (the hyperloop) and the Tesla truck, which is unlikely to be produced on time and at the promised price. The list is long in this category and never-ending; Musk’s futuristic thinking knows no bounds.

But importantly, these promises are the shiny objects that keep Tesla’s stock price high.

If I was a Tesla investor I’d be seriously worried about the company’s balance sheet. There are some ominous signs that Tesla’s financial situation is deteriorating rapidly. Tesla reportedly recently sent an email to its suppliers asking them to give some money back to help the company with its profitability.

Such requests are made by companies looking for Hail Mary solutions to significant financial problems. If suppliers start questioning Tesla’s financial viability, they’ll start shortening their accounts receivables periods and start requesting letters of credit. This would escalate the company’s problems. Hail Marys are acts of desperation. Putting this in the context of the likely Model 3 cancellations, – Tesla’s cash burn has likely gotten a lot worse.

This brings us to the last question: How effective is Musk at running Tesla?

Tesla is Elon Musk. He has achieved more than many of us will achieve in a thousand lifetimes. But today Musk is running half a dozen companies (Tesla, SpaceX, Solar City, Boring, OpenAI, Hyperloop). To make matters worse, he is also an incredible micromanager. I read that he interviews (or at least used to) every new employee who joins Tesla and SpaceX.

It is clear that Musk is quite exhausted, and his behavior is becoming more erratic. In a conference call snafu in April, he called the British diver who saved the Thai cave kids a “pedo” on Twitter. This sort of thing undermines Musk’s Iron Man image – if he loses that, the confidence game is lost and Tesla is done.
Another red flag went up recently: Musk started to attack short sellers. A short seller who went under the name of Montana Sceptic posted negative research on Tesla on Twitter and SeekingAlpha. Elon Musk personally called the man’s employer and threatened a lawsuit if the employer didn’t silence Montana Sceptic. Historically, companies that have gone after short sellers have had something to hide or were playing a confidence game. (The short sellers were interfering with the misdirection to shiny objects.)

Tesla investors are still fascinated by the shiny objects, but I note that CDS insurance on Tesla’s bonds prices in a 24% risk of default by 2025. I am not long or short the stock. But if I were long Tesla’s shares I’d be asking myself these questions. After all, you’re paying $50 billion for a company that trades completely on the spoils of future dreams.

Read my other articles on Tesla:

Why I Canceled My Model 3 Order

Uninvestable Tesla

The Double Trap For Tesla Investors Predicting The Future

Vitaliy Katsenelson is chief investment officer at Investment Management Associates in Denver, Colo. He is the author of “Active Value Investing” (Wiley) and “The Little Book of Sideways Markets” (Wiley). Read more on Katsenelson’s Contrarian Edge blog.
Old 08-03-2018, 03:21 PM
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MM,
Tesla's interior is nowhere near the quality of a Merc. All the money is in the drive train and, if it does not turn your crank, is worthless to you. No worries.

MT,
My comment was aimed at all those saying the company was going to go under. I knew M3 delays were going to be painful. Musk is an undamped system in that his excursions from the norm are getting ever greater. Each time he gets away with a near death experience he doubles down again. Personally, I love it. I've created and prospered from that work. It was not easy; in fact, it was very difficult. Watching someone else do it at far higher levels then I ever could is entertaining to say the least. It takes every bit of everything including all available luck to create and grow a company like Musk has and is. Seeing people on the sidelines, especially those who have made money by adding no value, running their mouths about Tesla this and Tesla that is both entertaining and sad. Is Musk perfect? Absolutely not. Is he doing something neither you nor I can do? Highly likely (at least for me). Props for even trying.
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Old 08-04-2018, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by lolachampcar
MM,
Tesla's interior is nowhere near the quality of a Merc. All the money is in the drive train and, if it does not turn your crank, is worthless to you. No worries.

MT,
My comment was aimed at all those saying the company was going to go under. I knew M3 delays were going to be painful. Musk is an undamped system in that his excursions from the norm are getting ever greater. Each time he gets away with a near death experience he doubles down again. Personally, I love it. I've created and prospered from that work. It was not easy; in fact, it was very difficult. Watching someone else do it at far higher levels then I ever could is entertaining to say the least. It takes every bit of everything including all available luck to create and grow a company like Musk has and is. Seeing people on the sidelines, especially those who have made money by adding no value, running their mouths about Tesla this and Tesla that is both entertaining and sad. Is Musk perfect? Absolutely not. Is he doing something neither you nor I can do? Highly likely (at least for me). Props for even trying.

He has definitely had big (good) impact on the automotive world and as you say props to him. As I see it he sees the ideal and strives for it. It is truly remarkable what a good car he has created in such a short period of time. Now the other manufacturers have to play catch-up but with their resources they well make a better product ultimately and if a company like Mercedes doesn't well shame on them (their first foray into hybrids (S400) was kind of pathetic . I would love to see a Mercedes star on top of the hood (where it belongs) of a EV sedan assuming that it would be not a high financial risk proposition like the S400 was.

Old 08-05-2018, 07:29 AM
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Did MB not start down the path of using the Tesla drive line on one of their chassis? Its been long enough that I really do not remember but I think there was some work in that direction early on when MB was an investor in Tesla.
Old 10-25-2018, 10:07 PM
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Wow, interesting.

Old 10-27-2018, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason B

Interesting and impressive. They just need to figure out how to make it cheaper.
Old 10-29-2018, 06:09 AM
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Q3 call and letter out. Elon is definitely paying a price for the success; its wearing on him.

That said, M3 at +20% margins Outsold Porsche world wide in Q3.

Yea, the interior still sucks compared with Audi, BMW, Porsche and even MB.


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