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Yes it looks like they will push the S450 and S450 4matic as they appear to be the only two S Class cars one can do European Delivery with (atleast based on MBUSA website). One more indication of where MBUSA appearing to sell more S450s vs S560s.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
I'm sure the 450's will perform nicely, but in such a big, heavy car, I can't imagine not having a V8. And, there is something about the sound--even as muffled as it will be, the sound of a whining six in a big, luxury saloon just doesn't cut it for me. I don't care for the "clicking" sound of my current S550, but it's better than a V6 whine. I really hope the new engine in the S560 is more silent.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by ajm0623
i tell ya, boys - it is these interiours that drove me away from placing an order for a 18 s560 in favour of buying a 18 750. after driving s class cars for 25yrs, i left the s for the 7 as bimmer offered better, more interesting colours. i got my new 7 last month and couldn't be happier with it. love the navy blue/saddle combo - something i wanted in the s but benzo doesn't offer it. so off to bimmer i went. i looked at the new mbusa configurator that stream posted a few days back and my god that magma grey and espresso brown interiour looks so conflicted and so busy too when they add-in the porcelain headliner. really?! grey, brown and white. all mashed together. wtf?!
I know I've posted these photos before, but ajm0623 got me thinking again--and sulking! Why MB can't offer just ONE beautiful "saddle tan" interior like this BMW Individual "Tartufo Full Marino Leather," is just beyond me. It's classic, inviting and MUCH more practical than these "almost white" Beige interiors that MB can't seem to get enough of. THE NEW S will be offered with choices of SIX Beige combination interiors, but nothing even remotely similar to this exquisite option. Damn that's a beautiful color--not to mention some of the gorgeous BMW exterior colors. MB needs a new "Head of Aesthetics" in Germany. The current one just repeats themselves like a broken record and then, when they finally do come up with something new, it's that horrid "Mahogany" thing. Did they legalize pot in Germany?
Last edited by Streamliner; 08-22-2017 at 09:43 PM.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by Streamliner
I'm sure the 450's will perform nicely, but in such a big, heavy car, I can't imagine not having a V8. And, there is something about the sound--even as muffled as it will be, the sound of a whining six in a big, luxury saloon just doesn't cut it for me. I don't care for the "clicking" sound of my current S550, but it's better than a V6 whine. I really hope the new engine in the S560 is more silent.
2017 S550 and 2018 S450 4matic are both specced at 4.8s 0-60:
...so the V6 is fast enough imo, for me at least. (2018 S560 is 0.3s faster than the 2017 S550, though).
As far as sound, I don't know about the V6, but the MotorTrend article indicated of the I6 in the S500 "Also cool: Unlike almost every V-6 ever built, inline-sixes sound great". So that's what I'm personally waiting for, if I get the W222 FL at all. As a bonus, the I6 S500 could be marginally faster than the S450.
Yes it looks like they will push the S450 and S450 4matic as they appear to be the only two S Class cars one can do European Delivery with (atleast based on MBUSA website). One more indication of where MBUSA appearing to sell more S450s vs S560s.
The problem is that the US S450 gets the old 3.0 V6 engine while the European models get the nice R6 (with EQ Boost).
...so the V6 is fast enough imo, for me at least. (2018 S560 is 0.3s faster than the 2017 S550, though).
As far as sound, I don't know about the V6, but the MotorTrend article indicated of the I6 in the S500 "Also cool: Unlike almost every V-6 ever built, inline-sixes sound great". So that's what I'm personally waiting for, if I get the W222 FL at all. As a bonus, the I6 S500 could be marginally faster than the S450.
I suspect the s500(I6) might be even faster than the s560 if equipped with 4matic.
BTW, does anyone knows how much power will the s560e be producing?
Last edited by michaelleongcl; 08-23-2017 at 05:12 AM.
I know I've posted these photos before, but ajm0623 got me thinking again--and sulking! Why MB can't offer just ONE beautiful "saddle tan" interior like this BMW Individual "Tartufo Full Marino Leather," is just beyond me. It's classic, inviting and MUCH more practical than these "almost white" Beige interiors that MB can't seem to get enough of. THE NEW S will be offered with choices of SIX Beige combination interiors, but nothing even remotely similar to this exquisite option. Damn that's a beautiful color--not to mention some of the gorgeous BMW exterior colors. MB needs a new "Head of Aesthetics" in Germany. The current one just repeats themselves like a broken record and then, when they finally do come up with something new, it's that horrid "Mahogany" thing. Did they legalize pot in Germany?
My wife has and a white interior 7 series Individual. Next year her lease is up and we've been looking at the new BMW interiors and this will probably be her next interior.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by michaelleongcl
BTW, does anyone knows how much power will the s560e be producing?
I found a thread on another forum that said autobild.de had indicated 558hp. I tried to look at autobild but don't know German and couldn't find the source page. If the 560e is offered with 4matic I would likely go that way, but since the 550e wasn't offered AWD I don't hold out much hope.
In general I do find a full EV to be less practical for distance driving. I want one hybrid/ICE in the family for that reason, and since my wife is "all in" on EVs, that means the hybrid/ICE will be mine, at least until public charging infrastructure becomes much faster and much more widespread than Tesla's current Superchargers.
As far as the German fellow's experience in getting range much less than advertised, I would guess that has alot to do with speed...if he routinely goes 100-120mph on autobahns, range suffers much more than would be the case with ICE. Tesla's website has a range calculator that lets you input temperature and speed (toward the bottom of this page)...at 50mph and 70 degrees a 75D gets 367 miles. But at 70mph it drops to just 250 miles. It is telling that the calculator doesn't let you input speeds greater than 70mph.
I found a thread on another forum that said autobild.de had indicated 558hp. I tried to look at autobild but don't know German and couldn't find the source page. If the 560e is offered with 4matic I would likely go that way, but since the 550e wasn't offered AWD I don't hold out much hope.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
This just out this morning, about the upcoming Frankfurt Auto Show:
The Mercedes-Benz debuts range from the all-electric EQ-A, which is derived from the new A-class platform codenamed MFA2, to the wild Project 1 AMG hypercar that blends an actual Mercedes F1 hybrid powertrain with additional e-motors to deliver a combined output of more than 1000hp. Also on the agenda are a smart concept, a fuel-cell-equipped GLC, and an early facelift for both two-door S-class models.
Highly likely
Am currently having a Panamera 4S priced out for Nov. alllocation to see where it's coming in at. Price as optioned was $141k.
When you configure a Porsche you realize how many options Mercedes throws in, not just luxury options, but also in terms of tech. You simply get more for for less. And MB's tech is better.
Alcantara headliner alone for $2k? That's a freebie in the S-class with exclusive nappa.
The thing Porsche has going for is that my wife enjoys a smaller bodied car and perhaps the higher residual.
From my perspective I find the Panamera to be quite a compelling option. It depends which one your comparing to the S-Class. I’ve spec’d out a 4 e-hybrid and it comes out a little less than a comparable S560 4matic. I’ve driven the 2018 and it’s faster and far more nimble than the S-Class. Also the ride is very compliant in comfort mode due not only to the multi chamber air suspension, but also the fact that it’s not running on lower side wall run flat tires.
The fact that the e-hybrid can drive 30 miles on electric alone and provide rocket like acceleration, if that’s what your into, only adds to the value proposition.
From my perspective I find the Panamera to be quite a compelling option. It depends which one your comparing to the S-Class. I’ve spec’d out a 4 e-hybrid and it comes out a little less than a comparable S560 4matic. I’ve driven the 2018 and it’s faster and far more nimble than the S-Class. Also the ride is very compliant in comfort mode due not only to the multi chamber air suspension, but also the fact that it’s not running on lower side wall run flat tires.
The fact that the e-hybrid can drive 30 miles on electric alone and provide rocket like acceleration, if that’s what your into, only adds to the value proposition.
Apart from that our Porsche dealer didn't have MY18 e-hydrids (and nobody else at the time since they weren't released a month ago), they worked hard to talk me out of the hybrids, perhaps apart from the turbo s e-hybrid for $200k.
I had to drive the Panamera 4S and it drove nice but it was anything but a rocket ship. Nothing like our SL for example. Just no torque like the TTV8
The e-hybrid clocks in at 4.4sec to 60 (w. Sport Chrono), the S560 at 4.6. In real terms this is almost a wash with both cars being AWD.
Not trying to complain; the new Panamera is a very fine car!
I am wondering how you equipped the S560; the base $100k Panamera is bare-bone. Forget about lane assist, nice audio or seats.
When spec'ing both cars roughly the same, the S560 came in at $126k vs the Panamera $141k. Actually the S-Class was bit better equipped.
What killed it for me was that we lease the cars as I like to change to upgraded tech every 2 or so years.
Porsche is known for horrible lease terms and the numbers proved it. Roughly $1000 more a month (with $11k down!) than the S-Class.
How does interior space, including rear seating compare, 222 vs Panamera?
The Panamera is quite roomy front and rear, even headroom.
It is a real 4 seater even for tall people but unless you get the LWB executive version, it needs to be compared to the SWB S-Class.
The biggest difference between the two is in the softness of seats/headrests.
Headrests are a million times better on the S-Class = comfy/luxurious. The Panamera headrest is more like the Teslas.
The seats are good on both but very different. Sporty bucket seats in the Porsche. Good fit but stiffer.
Panamera has 3 different seats (8/14/18 way).
But you can only get ventilation and massage function in the 14 way seats.
That alone will cost you $4500+ (freebee on the S).
The Panamera is quite roomy front and rear, even headroom.
It is a real 4 seater even for tall people but unless you get the LWB executive version, it needs to be compared to the SWB S-Class.
The biggest difference between the two is in the softness of seats/headrests.
Headrests are a million times better on the S-Class = comfy/luxurious. The Panamera headrest is more like the Teslas.
The seats are good on both but very different. Sporty bucket seats in the Porsche. Good fit but stiffer.
Panamera has 3 different seats (8/14/18 way). But you can only get ventilation and massage function in the 14 way seats.
That alone will cost you $4500+ (freebee on the S).
Welcome to the world of Porsche, where pretty much everything is an option. My wife used to say that even the steering wheel was an option. I owned 3 x 911’s, albeit used ( CPO cars ). Finding one optioned the way you wanted with the right color scheme, etc was always quite challenging, but really fun once you found it.
Also, given that each version comes as a coupe, cabrio and targa and there are many versions, it really is liking finding a needle in a haystack. Oh, then there is PDK and stick versions...
Apart from that our Porsche dealer didn't have MY18 e-hydrids (and nobody else at the time since they weren't released a month ago), they worked hard to talk me out of the hybrids, perhaps apart from the turbo s e-hybrid for $200k.
I had to drive the Panamera 4S and it drove nice but it was anything but a rocket ship. Nothing like our SL for example. Just no torque like the TTV8
The e-hybrid clocks in at 4.4sec to 60 (w. Sport Chrono), the S560 at 4.6. In real terms this is almost a wash with both cars being AWD.
Not trying to complain; the new Panamera is a very fine car!
I am wondering how you equipped the S560; the base $100k Panamera is bare-bone. Forget about lane assist, nice audio or seats.
When spec'ing both cars roughly the same, the S560 came in at $126k vs the Panamera $141k. Actually the S-Class was bit better equipped.
What killed it for me was that we lease the cars as I like to change to upgraded tech every 2 or so years.
Porsche is known for horrible lease terms and the numbers proved it. Roughly $1000 more a month (with $11k down!) than the S-Class.
You’re definitely correct on the leases. On any 4 series they max out at $117k regardless of what the final MSRP turns out to be. Crazy.
As far as torque is concerned that’s where the e-hybrid gets the jump on the 4S. Immediate torque off the line which I find more useful in day to day driving. The S550 is obviously no slouch in this area either and I’m sure even more so in your lighter SL.
As far as pricing I spec’d one out at about $125k. The major options I chose were the following; 14 way leather seating with massage and ventilation and heat, heated steering wheel, Dynamic LED Light System+, soft close doors, lane keeping assist, lane change assist, Adaptive Cruise w/InnoDrive (looks 1.8 miles ahead to adjust throttle, gear, and braking), Night Vision, Park assist, surround view cameras, thermal and noise insulated glass, Rear Axle Steering, Carbon interior trim, and Sport Chrono (standard on e-hybrid models).
If I wanted to stay with pure luxury I’d stay with the S-class. For sporty luxury in a 4 door, the Panamera. It should also be noted that the Panamera only seats 4 unless you go with the Turismo model.
You’re definitely correct on the leases. On any 4 series they max out at $117k regardless of what the final MSRP turns out to be. Crazy.
As far as torque is concerned that’s where the e-hybrid gets the jump on the 4S. Immediate torque off the line which I find more useful in day to day driving. The S550 is obviously no slouch in this area either and I’m sure even more so in your lighter SL.
As far as pricing I spec’d one out at about $125k. The major options I chose were the following; 14 way leather seating with massage and ventilation and heat, heated steering wheel, Dynamic LED Light System+, soft close doors, lane keeping assist, lane change assist, Adaptive Cruise w/InnoDrive (looks 1.8 miles ahead to adjust throttle, gear, and braking), Night Vision, Park assist, surround view cameras, thermal and noise insulated glass, Rear Axle Steering, Carbon interior trim, and Sport Chrono (standard on e-hybrid models).
If I wanted to stay with pure luxury I’d stay with the S-class. For sporty luxury in a 4 door, the Panamera. It should also be noted that the Panamera only seats 4 unless you go with the Turismo model.
Curious as to whether you were able to test drive a 2017 Panamera with these...and how it might compare to MB Distronic Plus?
It is available on US models, I believe they just recently got approval. The model I test drove didn’t have it and no I didn’t drive the 2017. From what I was told they made the suspension softer in the newest version in the comfort mode to compete more with the S-Class and A8.
You have the new numbers? did you order one yet? trying to see when to get one in for dec
These are the latest numbers and will not likely change until December. Word is maybe even January. Doubt it though...
Mercedes is really dumb at the moment. They are loading up dealers with S450's and limit S560 allocations. You will find very few S560's in the country and lots of them are the ruby black/mahogany combo which will not be a hot seller. These are forced allocations.
S450's are in low demand as many don't want a 6 cylinder in their S. Not sure what they are thinking. But you can get already full discounts on them and with low MF and high residual, it is one cheap car.
08-22-2017, 08:12 AM
