Wolfman

I am sure a number of people are interested in this...

The big favorite here is the 450 models

Residuals - shown for 24/30/36 months - More or less the same as MY17

S450 61%/57%/53%
S450V4 61%/57%/53%
S560V4 56%/52%/48%
S63V4 49%/47%/46%

MF - non-discounted

S450 0.00095
S450V4 0.00095
S560V4 0.00127
S63V4 std.

dbtk

Thanks for posting. With MSDs and AutoPay the S450 MF will be pratically nothing.

usctrojans1

Do you have the MF for the S63 & S65?

Wolfman

it's MB's standard MF. Trying to remember; it's something like 0.0025. Or was it 0.00225

WSH

Leases are interesting games
From what I understand, really becoming tricky for mfrs in major states like TX&FL(&less major states like IL) where sales tax implics (&itemized tx deducs of sales tx in states w/0% income taxes) are rather different for leases vs buying/financing than CA
That said, am always amused by how cheap is Porsche 911TurboS 24mo lease vs similar lease for 65 Coupe in CA
Suspect many need to fully load costs of commuter&wkend fun car as few cars solve both purposes, even in places w/nr-perfect weather, like CA....
I've gotten a new TurboS as an urban commuter car (smoother gearbox and sharper throttle response vs 65 in urban driving, all in Sport mode) but I also get a new 65 for my wkend fun driving in mtns where TurboS' pathetic exhaust note, less passive safety, etc make it less relevant&enjoyable
All that said, wouldn't want any of these cars for more than 24mos; and typically, esp given glut of luxury cars, MBF will buy out 5mos pmts to "sell" one into another 24mos lease anyway

syswei

What is MSD, please?

teksurv

Multiple Security Deposits. Used to lower the payments and refundable at lease end.

konigstiger

See here: https://www.mbfs.com/mbfsr/en/leaseF...tClassLease.do

Jason B

They are really touting the additional led colors.

johndong888

How you get cheap 911 leases? Porsche does MRM on them. I guess cost is relative.

Corey140

He's been posting the same bs for years now. I doubt, anyone believes him.

SB_NYC

I have always financed but I am considering leasing a 2018 S560 4matic.

Please excuse my ignorance, but is the residual or MF ever negotiable? I have gotten the price of the car I want I just don't know how to go about negotiating a better lease. Also, what additional charges does a lease entail? I believe an "acquisition fee", etc.? Finally, what changes with the mileage per year usage, MF or residual? I plan on driving about 10k a year....

If anyone could help, my numbers look like this:

Price: $109,915
Trade: $45,000
Trade Payoff: $38,740
Sales Tax only on amount of lease: 8.875% & trade difference lowers tax on new car (New York)
36 month lease at 10k miles per year

Wolfman

Couple thoughts of what works for me. There maybe different setups for different states or other tax advantages...
1. Don't ever trade-in a car unless you want to have them give you a cash payout as part of it. In a lease, you don't own the car and the best way is to ALWAYS have zero down. Any money put down other than the first payment is at risk during a total loss (accident, flood, theft). Also, no money down for license fees or taxes. That can be rolled in.
2. Residual is a fixed hard number and can't be negotiated. The number changes based on lease duration and mileage. The numbers I had posted at the beginning of the thread are based on 15k miles. Residual has the biggest impact on the monthly costs. Less miles, less years ups the residual % by up to 11%.
3. MF is negotiable and the number does not change with different lease terms. This is where you can deal.
Important info on MF. This number changes down by MB to attract sales. The lower the sales, the lower the number. The dealer will show to a page with all MF rates if asked. When you asked for the buy-rate, they will show you this page. It's important to know that this sheet is printed by MB for the dealers and is NOT the actual buy rate; this is the retail rate that has build-in margin that the dealer is paid by MBFS post sale. Whatever the dealer shows you is downward negotiable.

What I found:
Most leases have a sweet spot. Higher residuals offset shorter lease duration. I found that 30 months leases with lower miles give you same rates over a shorter time period.
Don't overbuy miles. Many people get higher miles not to incur a penalty. That's actually bad as higher miles lower your residual. You give money away especially if you don't use all miles. Even when you pay for extra miles, you total payment is likely less
I typically lease 30 months at 7500 miles. Residual is great plus MB typically offers you a 5-6 months pull ahead as they want to sell you a car every two years. Pull ahead means they will release you from the lease commitment (payments) when leasing another MB or S-Class (there may be model restrictions).

If you have a high MF (like AMG's, coupes, etc.) you can use MSD's to dramatically reduce the MF rate. MSD are monthly security deposits which lowers the risk to MBFS and thus the rates. But this is your money and it's being returned to you post-lease. I think the max is 10 months MSD.

Unfortunately MBFS doesn't discount the MF anymore for direct deposit as they used to.

I am sure I forgot something and there are many pros that have great info on leases on this forum, including info on associated costs and how to reduce them...

Streamliner

2012 merc amg

You could do a tune on it, put larger turbos on the car and downpipes and run the car at your local drag race track, lol Joking

Wolfman

Skerdian owns the car afaik, so he could trade-in. Unless you buy the car at lease-end there is nothing to trade. When your new S560 comes in get rid of the S550. There is nothing to gain unless you decide at that time that you like the S550 better.

If you do like your S550, the timing may not be too bad. MB doesn't want the car back and likely the dealer doesn't want that car either at year end. There are two residual numbers that MBFS has, one for you to buy the car at the end of lease and one (much lower number) for the returning dealer to buy the car for CPO. If the dealer says no, the cars will be shipped off to auction.
So, think of a number you like to offer the dealer for the car at turn-in. Let's say $20-25k or so lower than the residual and then make the dealer the offer. If they can still make a buck you will likely get the car. If there is no deal or a bad counteroffer, just keep the car until the S560 comes in. Just make sure they don't start the paperwork yet. Talk too them first so you can extend if needed...

johndong888

Residual is fixed. MF you can work around with. Most dealers do mark it up. You'll have a ~7k equity towards the lease. Not advisable to most leasers but it'll cover all the usage tax/titles and dealer fees nicely in ny. So you'll just be making payments on just the car and depreciation charges. Easier to understand the numbers that way for a first timer.

You got way too many miles allowance on your car. You won't get that back. Mercedes over mileage is 0.25cent per, you'll be better off going as low as you can and either buy the miles or letting the dealers eat it. We are not as bold as Wolf to go 7500 miles a year. We usually go 10k miles a year, which we're always way over and the dealers usually eat the overage miles when you lease another one.

Doesn't apply to all brand as I know first hand land rover's mile overage charge counters this exact tactic.

You could trade in your lease vehicle but this usually doesn't work unless it's a hotter car. I'm testing it with my g63. The residual is also 50% I think. So 150/2, end lease is 75k. Currently 3 year old models are still 100k+ so you could trade it in for 25k equity. In the case of streamliner, his s is probably 120k, lease end is around 62 ish. I don't think any 2015 s with 35k miles is going for more than that

Wolfman

With a G63 you will be in a much better place than a S-Class. There are certain models that will allow for cash out at CarMax etc. or even private party but they have to be wanted cars. Unlike Porsche's only few MB's come to mind. Which makes leasing so attractive in the luxury market. Especially in times where the shift to electrification creates unknowns in future car values, a fixed residual 3 years out is a nice hedge. I wonder even with the new G coming out will the old W463 get a bigger cult status or will people flock to the new one. Technically that truck addresses a lot of long standing issues.

Btw. Your Land Rover example is a good one. They are a small player in terms of car volume and don't have their own financing arm like MB or BMW. MB has all the flexibility they want or need to make a deal or write down a loss. Land Rover uses a bank to underwrite all their leases (think it was Chase). Banks are much less flexible when it comes to their money

heffneil

I had just north of 10,000 miles on my car after a 30 month 10,000 mile a year lease. I took it to Carmax who traditionally would give best trade in. That pay off was the balance of the payments less. There is no early forgiveness. I ended up just riding the lease out and giving it back. My buddy said that not having excess equity generally looks like a good deal to begin with. I guess I could see it that way. I asked the dealer for fewer than 10k miles a year and still didn't get it. They said 10k is the lowest. I miss my MB S550 badly but didn't drive it daily. Sitting in that car was like no other. I was at the dealership yesterday doing another deal and I know the general manager who is supposed to have been one of the top sales people in the country (blah blah blah). I said I want to lease a car but i've been here for hours and you didn't sell me one! Anyway he said there aren't enough S560's out there to do "really good deals". That might be true. I think you negotiate the purchase price and know what the MF and residual SHOULD be so no one screws you. Otherwise I cross my fingers MB puts out a super reduced MF sooner than later or some big money off but I am doubtful and I am Mercedes Benzless for now

Wolfman

Minimum miles on a standard leas is 7500 miles, so the 10k miles minimum is not true. S560's are rare but that doesn't limit discounts. Before we picked the E63s, the discount on a custom-build S560 was 10% Hope this helps.

heffneil

He offered meed a great deal on an E class which I thought about for a few seconds but I want a larger car. 10% is that a good deal? I think I saved about 15% on my S550 about 30 months ago. Not sure if that was a good deal....

Whats the savings on a 7500 mile loan vs 10,000 in terms of residual?

Wolfman

Right now, 10% for custom-order is quite good. Most dealers give 5% at the moment. New model, little to no stock gives dealers an advantage at the moment. Greater discounts can be had on 450's and some less desirable S560 builds on lots. Three things make the S560 more expensive than before.
1. There was a glut of 2015 models on lots after dealers over-ordered due to very high demand at launch & 2014 models.
2. Large inventories in 15up depressed used car values a touch more than usual = lower residuals for MY18 from the get go.
3. MB is selling record number of cars. Best year ever. US inventories are low also due to Hurricanes in FL, TX. MBUSA re-routed a fair amount of inventory to dealers there.

That said, MF will drop and discounts will increase. Residual will not increase. But due to low allocations expect that to happen only 3-4 months from now...
7500 miles = +1% in residual over 10k, 3% over 15k (same duration) minus miles cost...

I hear you on the E-Class. Best deals are on the bread and butter models which are usually quite un-luxurious, so you have to add a lot of money to make them somewhat comparable.

heffneil

I'm in Naples FL so that was ground zero for irma. Our MB dealership is really low on inventory and they move a lot of cars. A mutual friend with the managing partner said he is selling less cars and making more money per vehicle. I guess that is one approach and if it works for him great. I am cost conscious and I explained to him while I want the car I really just want to rent it

I don't think I want anything other than a S class but I am more of a truck / suv guy as a daily driver. Is the S450 noticeably lesser of a car than the s560?

Streamliner

heffneil

I just bought a Tesla Model X in March and yesterday bought Ford Raptor. I have trouble justifying the cost of the s560 but want a soft cushy car for long trips and what not. It wouldn't see a lot of action so its just hard to pay $1600 a month on a lease that would consume very very few miles.