Wolfman

Had a couple of interesting conversations re. the facelifted S-Class...

It's obviously very early on but from the sounds of it, the dealers I spoke to find low interest in the MY S450's.

Ready in stock and ready to discount, they are out of S560 (which have high demand) and fewer allocations than prior years.

We will see how that goes over time; I think introducing a lower-end S-Class was a bad move in the US and never really worked before.

Leasing one is a sweet deal though. Lower MF (.00095 vs .00127 non-discounted) plus 5% higher residual than the S560 makes them cheap to lease...

syswei

Maybe they could dump the S450 here and bring over the S500 in its place next year.

ItalianJoe1

They are just starting to show up, but I agree, BMW never had success with small engine 7 series cars here either. They are big hits in other markets, but in the US, the people who actually can afford to buy a big car, aren't doing it for economy, and want the bigger engines. The people who would buy a 6 cyl S class are in the minority, and most who like the idea would never actually spend the money on one.

Wolfman

Not going to happen. Would make zero sense marketing-wise.

Also, unlike a few of us here on the forum, nobody cares if the car has a V6 or inline 6 engine installed. It's simply the "low-end" model like the old S430 back in the W220 days.

syswei

Maybe people would be more interested in buying something starting with a "5" than a "4". Plus it would allow MB to offer something "new" in the US for the MY2019 S-Class. I am going to hold out some hope.

Wolfman

I think the S500 is an excellent car/engine combo myself. The S500 is simply too close to the 560 to differentiate the product. Call the 560 a 650 and you would be good

Germancar1

I would bet that the S450 will either get the new I6 or they will do as you said here, bring over the S500. A 435hp S500 with an I6 will push the S560 to 500hp. Crazy power for non AMG S-Classes.

M

Germancar1

Interesting posts. I agree, at the current hp levels a 435hp S500 would be too close to the S560, but they can easily fix that by boosting the S560 to 500hp. I would like to see it IMO. Either that or give the S450 at least 375-380hp from the I6 and keep the name the same. It is true though, there is no need for a entry level S_Class. The S-Class outsold the 7-Series, A8 and LS combined in 2014. They don't need an entry level model. My problem with the S450 is that it is a V6 and only what 362hp? What they should have done was introduce the S500 here with 435hp and the S560 would have 490-500hp. I don't want to see the 415hp LS500 smacking the S450 around in comparos, not that it really matters but still.

M

Streamliner

I was under the impression that the S500 I6 Model was, indeed, coming to the US next year and that the S450 was just an interim model, until MB was comfortable bringing the new tech here, no? I know what my wife’s E350 V6 sedan feels & sounds like and even though the S450 may have plenty of torque & power, I want my S to have the “elegance,” for lack of a better term, of a V8. That effortless thrust that gives you the feeling that the car is somehow propelled magically. I look forward to someday test driving the S500, but with a V6 as my only real alternative right now, I’m sticking with the S560 for the time being.

apbc2

This isn't surprising to me. There are many folks who care an awful lot about what number is on the back of the car. The S450 has more than adequate power for 80% of the typical S-class buyer. As stated above, MBUSA is standing behind the S450 with lower MF and higher residuals.
I think they should have labeled the US S450 as S500 (with the current S450 engine) and they would find more interest.
I remember the days of the 420SEL and the 560SEL and most people just wanted the higher number, not the greater horsepower and burled vs. Zebrano wood.
Many people who buy S-Class sedan care more about status than they do about performance.
Just my $.02

Wolfman

The S450 will move to the i6 for MY19. That is a no brainer requiring no additional effort. While the S560 can easily go to 600hp (as it is essentially a detuned E63 engine, just build by MB) I don't see that happening. That would be an engineering change that is not actually driven by customer demand. The pricing structure is based on trim levels anyway to create the required differentiation.

Wolfman

No. The US S450 uses a v6 which is used nowhere else. This is a US oddity that has probably more to do with DOT/EPA certification timing than anything else. In the rest of the world already uses the i6. The S450 and the S500 are both inline 6's but the S450 will be the one coming here.
People seriously seem to underestimate the cost of introducing, marketing, homolegating and training for a new model. Switching engines will be minimal.
MB will also not rename a S500 to a S450 just for the US. The have just gone through the effort of standardizing the models between countries. That's why a S560 in Germany is the same as the S560 in the US...

WSH

Interesting bet by MB
US is world's wealthiest country and has world's cheapest cars&leases, so very different cars than RoW, and difft cars sell in elite US urban/suburban corridors vs "normal" US affluent suburbs
But not clear what % of S-Class sales (and more importantly profits) are derived from China and sales as limos in NYC/Lond, etc where motor is fairly irrelevant
In mkts like LA/SF/NYC (prob even Dall/Chic, etc) doubt many affluent <40yo family guys want an S sedan of any kind (ex-Manhattan wealthy who have own S560 limo&driver): Macan, etc seem to be minivan of choice for these types these days
Those who can&want to drive selves (and live in LA/SF/NYC/Dall/Seatt, etc) seem to then ponder some E63 or S65 Coupe or 911TurboS as commuter cars; not sure a limo S sedan, esp w/a puny motor in a cheap car for any affluent guy in Podunk US, is relevant to anyone in US except limo cos. in NYC, etc (but that may be a big enough mkt as I vaguely recall ~25+% US S-Class sales are into that mkt)

michaelleongcl

Yes I agree that the most logical choice will be to bring the in line 6 s450 to USA. I believe the s560 will eventually get a power boost in the form of eq boost like in the m256.

Jason B

This just seems like typical mercedes. I remember when they had S320, S350, S420, S500, S600, etc all at the same time. Then they cut it down to just about one entry level model years later (w221 and pre facelift w222), while of course still offering the amg models. I don't know why they keep switching it. Maybe they think starting price of $89,000 will look much better it today's economy.