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4WD S63 vs RWD S65?

 
Old 10-20-2017, 04:39 PM
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4WD S63 vs RWD S65?

Hi everyone, I am in the market for a used 2015 Mercedes S63 or S65 Sedan. S65 is about 30-40k more than S63 in a used market.

I've driven S63 and loved the 4wheel drive, no wheel spin. Some people say S65 is a much better tranny but my fear is the wheel spin or traction control kicking in everytime.

Those that have driven or own W222 S65, can you share your experience please? Is it better in any way than S63?
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Old 10-20-2017, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ronin1099 View Post
Hi everyone, I am in the market for a used 2015 Mercedes S63 or S65 Sedan. S65 is about 30-40k more than S63 in a used market.

I've driven S63 and loved the 4wheel drive, no wheel spin. Some people say S65 is a much better tranny but my fear is the wheel spin or traction control kicking in everytime.

Those that have driven or own W222 S65, can you share your experience please? Is it better in any way than S63?
Don't buy either one. They both will chew up a set of front tires at every 8000 miles on the fronts. I drive easy and smooth and still can't get much out of the front tires. I blame it on the 4matic setup. MB has really got this messed up. I get 35,000 on a set of rear tires but only 8K on the front. Go with a S550, 560, etc.
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Old 10-20-2017, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MBS63AMG View Post
Don't buy either one. They both will chew up a set of front tires at every 8000 miles on the fronts. I drive easy and smooth and still can't get much out of the front tires. I blame it on the 4matic setup. MB has really got this messed up. I get 35,000 on a set of rear tires but only 8K on the front. Go with a S550, 560, etc.
Outer wear on the front tires is a S550/S63 trademark indeed and will likely be the same with the S560. Funny though, I have never gotten more than 15k miles on our RWD MB's
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Old 10-20-2017, 10:00 PM
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Wear does not bother me as much. My question is more about traction, transmission and drive feel of S63 vs 65. Which one is also more enjoyable to drive.

is there anything great about S65 other than V12?
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Old 10-21-2017, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ronin1099 View Post
Wear does not bother me as much. My question is more about traction, transmission and drive feel of S63 vs 65. Which one is also more enjoyable to drive.

is there anything great about S65 other than V12?
Generally, there are almost no options for the S-65--it comes with everything.
Generally, there are limited options for the S-63--it comes with most options.

So, there can be $10K or so in options not present on the S-63 that would be present on the S-65.

And BTW, once you experience the smoothness of the V12, you will understand why the V8 is nothing but a buzzy high perf engine.
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Old 10-22-2017, 04:11 PM
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('94 SL600,'05 SL600,'06 S65,'07 E63,'14 E63S,all sold). 09 SL600,15 S65,18 E63S,'17 SL65
I own a W222 S65 so I am probably biased. I drove an S63 first since my wife had a E63S, I thought I would try out the S version.It just did not call to me and the transmission was awful. So now I have my second S65. I just replaced the factory tires at 17,000 miles, they probably had another 2k in them but decided to do it now. I was running the tires at 46 front, 38 rear. Wear was even across all 4 tires.
It is easy to engage traction control but also pretty easy to launch hard and not engage it with a little practice. The transmission is almost perfect, the only flaw is a delayed engine response when doing a rolling stop. No problem after a full stop. I think the only things truly unique to the S65 are the leather headliner, engine, transmission and chrome mesh front inserts.
For options I have the semi Analine leather upgrade, the executive rear seating with the tray tables, entertainment screens etc and I think the metallic black paint was extra. I do not have the carbon ceramic brakes or any of the carbon fiber packages.
Fuel mileage is much improved over my W220 S65. I frequently drive to San Diego, when I go during light traffic and use the cruise control set to 82 it always is right at 21mpg for 60 highway miles plus 5 city street miles. When I control it in heavy traffic it drops to about 18mpg. The factor tune and performance of the W222 is much better that my tuned W220 was. Fuel mileage is better and untuned it is as fast or slightly faster than my tuned W220 was.
In Southern California for me it is an easy decision to pick the S65, if I lived where it snowed a lot I would have to consider an AWD S63.
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Quadrobenz View Post
I own a W222 S65 so I am probably biased. I drove an S63 first since my wife had a E63S, I thought I would try out the S version.It just did not call to me and the transmission was awful. So now I have my second S65. I just replaced the factory tires at 17,000 miles, they probably had another 2k in them but decided to do it now. I was running the tires at 46 front, 38 rear. Wear was even across all 4 tires.
It is easy to engage traction control but also pretty easy to launch hard and not engage it with a little practice. The transmission is almost perfect, the only flaw is a delayed engine response when doing a rolling stop. No problem after a full stop. I think the only things truly unique to the S65 are the leather headliner, engine, transmission and chrome mesh front inserts.
For options I have the semi Analine leather upgrade, the executive rear seating with the tray tables, entertainment screens etc and I think the metallic black paint was extra. I do not have the carbon ceramic brakes or any of the carbon fiber packages.
Fuel mileage is much improved over my W220 S65. I frequently drive to San Diego, when I go during light traffic and use the cruise control set to 82 it always is right at 21mpg for 60 highway miles plus 5 city street miles. When I control it in heavy traffic it drops to about 18mpg. The factor tune and performance of the W222 is much better that my tuned W220 was. Fuel mileage is better and untuned it is as fast or slightly faster than my tuned W220 was.
In Southern California for me it is an easy decision to pick the S65, if I lived where it snowed a lot I would have to consider an AWD S63.

Thank you for sharing your experience owning an S65.

So you had W222 S63 but did not like the transmission and switched it to S65 and you actually like it much more than S63?!
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Old 10-24-2017, 12:18 PM
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('94 SL600,'05 SL600,'06 S65,'07 E63,'14 E63S,all sold). 09 SL600,15 S65,18 E63S,'17 SL65
Poor wording on my part. I just did an extended test drive of the S63 before buying the S65. As I said the S65 transmission is much more pleasant in every day driving and having 738 ft-lbs of torque instantly available as low as 2k RPM is very enjoyable. This is my second S65, very hard to give them up.
On options the Burmester 3D was an option, standard equipment was the non 3D, at least in 2015. The 3D is absolutely worth the small loss in space in one corner of the trunk.
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Old 10-24-2017, 12:22 PM
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('94 SL600,'05 SL600,'06 S65,'07 E63,'14 E63S,all sold). 09 SL600,15 S65,18 E63S,'17 SL65
One additional difference that is noticeable in some driving conditions is the suspension. The S65 has ABC with Magic Body Control, the S63 has Airmatic.
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Quadrobenz View Post
One additional difference that is noticeable in some driving conditions is the suspension. The S65 has ABC with Magic Body Control, the S63 has Airmatic.
Thank you Tom for a very detailed feedback on S65. Seems like S65 is a much better car in terms of transmission and engine response. I guess the only caveat is being rear wheel drive with so much torque, traction must interfere a lot to stop the wheel spin.

As far as suspension, I hear ABC is better in terms of a less body roll in terms, did you experience the same? I know some owners reported issues with ABC.
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Old 10-24-2017, 08:38 PM
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('94 SL600,'05 SL600,'06 S65,'07 E63,'14 E63S,all sold). 09 SL600,15 S65,18 E63S,'17 SL65
I have a 2009 SL600 with ABC and have found it to be more reliable than my 2005 and 2006 cars. MB seems to have improved some of the components and seals in the newer models. I have the 7 year extended factory warranty on the S65 so I have 4 more years before I would need to pay for anything.
In Sport mode the car corners almost flat but it turns off the MBC feature. I find the C suspension mode is good for most driving, an improvement over the 2006 S65. I find the ABC noticeably better than Airmatic, but the Airmatic is better that the steel springs on my wife’s 2014 E63S.
Traction is pretty easy with a little practice and the right tire pressure in the rear tires. That said, unless drag slicks are installed I doubt there is enough traction for a sub 4.0 second 0 to 60 time. Still fast enough for any street situation. From a rolling 55mph it is unbelievably fast and quiet to any speed you might need. Remember a 12 cylinder has 50% more power strokes per revolution than an 8 cylinder engine (6 vs 4.) The V12 is a unique driving experience.
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Old 10-25-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ronin1099 View Post
Hi everyone, I am in the market for a used 2015 Mercedes S63 or S65 Sedan. S65 is about 30-40k more than S63 in a used market.

I've driven S63 and loved the 4wheel drive, no wheel spin. Some people say S65 is a much better tranny but my fear is the wheel spin or traction control kicking in everytime.

Those that have driven or own W222 S65, can you share your experience please? Is it better in any way than S63?

I just took delevery 10 days ago of an S63 2018 with the new facelift it is a big upgrade from my S550 2015 . This car is perfect in any condition . I can't tell you about the tire wear but I'm sure I will do as much as I do on my 911 . If you want to spend the money you will not look back . I ordered it in polar white I think it looks great




me
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:15 PM
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Awesome Jupiter., congrats.
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:54 PM
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For guys with tire wear concerns, most of the 222's we align have alignment out of spec from new, with excessive toe-in in the front that wears the tires quickly. If you want to prevent it, complain about the alignment early on, have it done under warranty. They can actually set it on the outer side of the range, closer to zero but still green, to get maximum life from the tires.
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:05 PM
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('94 SL600,'05 SL600,'06 S65,'07 E63,'14 E63S,all sold). 09 SL600,15 S65,18 E63S,'17 SL65
I can say the alignment on my S65 was incorrect from the factory. It was realigned under warranty early on. All 4 wheels were in the red, and not by small amounts.
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Old 10-31-2017, 04:47 AM
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The most important question which one is more enjoyable to drive S63 or S65. Seems like very few people own or have driven S65 but a lot have tried S63. Same for me, I owned S550 and test driven S63 but never tried S65 and even the older S65 models.

I spoke to few local S65 owners and they all in love with their W222 S65.
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Old 10-31-2017, 11:47 PM
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There is nothing like a V12. I'm clearly biased (I drive a V12 CL600), but in my times driving all manners of CL/S class cars, the V8 cars are great, and a tune/downpipe S63 coupe is just nasty fast due to the AWD, but I'd take the buttery smooth V12 power over a V8 any day, assuming cost isn't a factor. There's just something about a 12 that presents itself better than anything you've ever driven. Its smoother, more luxurious, and still ungodly fast, all in one. Doesn't have that raw, ripping character of the v8, but it's got more actual power with much more refinement, and it makes it all the more special. I love the 70mph wheelspin with no noise that I can get with my CL.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:48 AM
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Have had ~8 new CL/SL/S65 Coupes over past ~10yrs: all used as daily commuter cars and for wkend mtn twisties driving

Best perf cars I've ever driven esp vs fun mtn rds (even vs '17 991TTS Coupe which I also have)

Tire wear: never do hard 0-xxx accel but do hard 65-xxx accel on empty fwys and hard braking in mtns: replace rears at ~6K mis; trade-in cars within <2yrs so have never needed to replace fronts

It's all abt refinements at these levels: 63 motor is not as refined or as tq-rich on fast fwys as 65s; engine/exhaust music of 65 IMO is best on planet at any speed from inside w/windows closed (have never used audio in car as prefer 65 engine/exhaust music)

Traction of 65s for past ~10yrs has been superb, even vs modestly damp CA rds (such as early AM coastal mist); fine even in heavy rains (obviously adjust driving style; and placebo effect of AWD is for idiots given risks of hydroplaning or hydroplaning/spinning nearby cars); can recall having '07 SL65 w/awful traction even on mildly bumpy stretches of dry fwys in 65-xxx accel

63 MCT is a POS of a gearbox: been that way for ~10yrs, unlikely to ever change

In urban driving, 65 gearbox is acceptably smooth and robust, not as smooth as the ole 5-sp 65 box but much prefer the downshift blips of the 7-sp box; but I prefer 991TTS throttle/gearbox responsiveness&smoothness in <35MPH urban driving; perhaps counterintuitively, I prefer 65's tq/stability/safety/music in spirited driving on fast fwys or mtn twisties
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ItalianJoe1 View Post
There is nothing like a V12. I'm clearly biased (I drive a V12 CL600), but in my times driving all manners of CL/S class cars, the V8 cars are great, and a tune/downpipe S63 coupe is just nasty fast due to the AWD, but I'd take the buttery smooth V12 power over a V8 any day, assuming cost isn't a factor. There's just something about a 12 that presents itself better than anything you've ever driven. Its smoother, more luxurious, and still ungodly fast, all in one. Doesn't have that raw, ripping character of the v8, but it's got more actual power with much more refinement, and it makes it all the more special. I love the 70mph wheelspin with no noise that I can get with my CL.
My favorite MB was a CL600. The V12 was smooth and produced an engine whine that was intoxicating. I replaced it with a S63 that was a great car for sure, but it didn't measure up to the V12.
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Old 11-02-2017, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MBS63AMG View Post
Don't buy either one. They both will chew up a set of front tires at every 8000 miles on the fronts. I drive easy and smooth and still can't get much out of the front tires. I blame it on the 4matic setup. MB has really got this messed up. I get 35,000 on a set of rear tires but only 8K on the front. Go with a S550, 560, etc.
Fact is (new car industry's best kept secret) there is no Camber or Caster - only front and rear Toe (directional) adjustment OEM !

CAMBER - Allows to actually change the tire contact angles to correctly resolve costly, premature edge tire wear, improving traction / understeer / oversteer.

CASTER – Allows to Correctly resolve steering pull, increases steering response. With better turn in and high speed directional control. Along with anti dive/lift under brake and acceleration.

Not having Camber and Caster is OK if maintained and driven at showroom height. But the reality of day to day commuting encountering High cambered roads or altered height through load carrying or lowering. Fitting wide profile tires. Curb knocks.... Camber and Caster - full adjustment capability is essential.

For the front (only) you can fit inaccurate, basic "one offset position" fluted bolts - but they only offer a minimal 0.3 degrees (1/8") change! With K-MAC Front (and Rear) providing 4 times this amount and precisely adjustable!

We saw the need therefore to re-instate from the early 90's precise/full adjustment capability - TO FIX IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. (Front and rear - All models to 2017)

The K-MAC patented design front kits provide up to 4 times the adjustment range of the "one position" bolts and is PRECISE SINGLE WRENCH ADJUSTMENT - accurately on car (under load) direct on alignment rack.

No more ongoing trips to dealers or alignment shops trying to resolve the issue with Toe only directional adjustment - or constantly changing tire brands.

Extra feature is that the front kit replaces the 4 highest wearing bushings and is 2 axis/mono ball (self aligning) without the OEM oil and air voids. Result is noticeably improved brake and steering response.

Rear kit also provides precise single wrench Camber adjustment for the first time (and extra Toe adjustment to compensate for the new Camber facility).

Another popular kit manufactured is uprated replacement bushings (12) for the '6' multi link rear arms. Providing significant improvement to rear end stability. Less twitch/flex, improved traction especially when applying power to lane change / overtake.

S-Class (W222):
Front Camber and Caster kit #502816L $545
Rear Camber (and extra Toe) #502526K $480
Rear Bushing kit (12) for the 6 multi link arms #502828K $480


Delivery one kit $30. Each additional kit $20. PayPal, Visa or MasterCard (Dealer inquires welcome).

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Old 11-02-2017, 03:37 AM
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I hear some people putting orders on the new S63, anyone ordering S65?
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