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2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon
Originally Posted by RJC
Lexus makes good cars. I will add in my personal experience Lexus does not stand behind their product as well as MB
I’ve had MB SL’s since 1979, but my daily drivers between 1993 and 2012 were eight, brand new, fully loaded Lexus LS sedans. And, this is the way I always responded to questions about MB vs. Lexus service:
When you take your MB in and complain about something not being right, a big, tall guy with a blonde crew cut comes out, wearing a white lab coat. He says “Zer kut nat be anyzing out of order mit dis fine medcedes. YOU muz be doing sumsing vrong!” Then, two big guys in long, black leather trench coats come along side you and the blond guy says “take him, take him!”
When you take your Lexus in and complain about something, the service manager bows profusely and says “We are so very, VERY sorry that our car has not lived up to your expectations. We will completely dismantle the car to determine just what the problem is. If we cannot find the problem, we will airfreight the car back to the factory in Japan and when the problem is found, the person responsible for it will be executed. In the mean time, here are the keys to a brand new Lexus for you to drive.”
Obviously, I jest, but in the 90’s and 00’s, that’s how I felt about the difference. MB always gave me an argument, while Lexus always took care of me. I will say that MB has improved tremendously since then and I have been pleased with their service ever since about 2010.
I’ve had MB SL’s since 1979, but my daily drivers between 1993 and 2012 were eight, brand new, fully loaded Lexus LS sedans. And, this is the way I always responded to questions about MB vs. Lexus service:
When you take your MB in and complain about something not being right, a big, tall guy with a blonde crew cut comes out, wearing a white lab coat. He says “Zer kut nat be anyzing out of order mit dis fine medcedes. YOU muz be doing sumsing vrong!” Then, two big guys in long, black leather trench coats come along side you and the blond guy says “take him, take him!”
When you take your Lexus in and complain about something, the service manager bows profusely and says “We are so very, VERY sorry that our car has not lived up to your expectations. We will completely dismantle the car to determine just what the problem is. If we cannot find the problem, we will airfreight the car back to the factory in Japan and when the problem is found, the person responsible for it will be executed. In the mean time, here are the keys to a brand new Lexus for you to drive.”
Obviously, I jest, but in the 90’s and 00’s, that’s how I felt about the difference. MB always gave me an argument, while Lexus always took care of me. I will say that MB has improved tremendously since then and I have been pleased with their service ever since about 2010.
We will NEVER buy another Lexus nor Audi, they both continually lied, even when the proof presented was 100% irrefutable. they were wrong.
Lexus was so bad I took them to LL arb after they first forced us to go through a BS NADA arbitration (yes when buying a Lexus you are required to do this first before one can go Lemon Law). The NADA arb was rigged and we lost, but I cleaned Lexus' clocks in the State AG LL hearing (it was me against 3 reps from Lexus USA in addition to their outside counsel) and I won in a unanimous decision. After the hearing, counsel for Lexus came to shake my hand and bowed deeply in shame in front of the Lexus corp guys...the main Lexus rep said "you should be happy you got what you wanted". After over a year of lies, denial and countless service visits, I could have "strangled" that guy. Lexus even had the nerve to send three Japanese engineers to my home and were found driving around the base of my cobblestone driveway UNINIVTED trying to figure out the horrible metal/metal suspension noise we were complaining about, where one of our security people had to kick them off the property.
With respect to the German's see the video (here I jest of course).
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon
I guess if you buy enough new cars, everyone has a horror story and a brand they hate. I don’t hate BMW’s, but they bought back FOUR 12 cylinder cars from me, BETWEEN 1988 and 1995. I was surprised that they ever sold me the third one, after taking two back, but they did. You would have thought that after the fourth one, they would have sent a letter asking me to never darken their doorways again, but I never got one. One might ask why I kept buying them and the answer is that I always felt that it could NEVER happen to me AGAIN, but it did, over and over and over. Truly amazing!
I guess if you buy enough new cars, everyone has a horror story and a brand they hate. I don’t hate BMW’s, but they bought back FOUR 12 cylinder cars from me, BETWEEN 1988 and 1995. I was surprised that they ever sold me the third one, after taking two back, but they did. You would have thought that after the fourth one, they would have sent a letter asking me to never darken their doorways again, but I never got one. One might ask why I kept buying them and the answer is that I always felt that it could NEVER happen to me AGAIN, but it did, over and over and over. Truly amazing!
Yes, they count on the many that say "never again" where studies have shown many eventually soften over time and come crawling back. I have had issues with MB too, but the way they have taken care of me in recent times won me over, and because of this MB will be my first choice unless something changes in the way they handle us/things. Granted, a lot of this has to do with the dealership, the regional rep and what model of cars you buy. When it comes to Lexus and Audi they are done, far too many other great vehicles out there to choose from and I despise liars. BTW, the last Lexus was a new 2013 (bought 3 new ones from them) and we've never gone back!
Wolfman, hope you enjoy your E63. Brilliant machine. A friend has an E63s with Renntech upgrades. Car is actually frightening.
Just please keep posting in this space. You always provide valuable insights.
I have never been one to track cars but as a German I have had my fair share of high speed adventures in Europe. That said, this particular car is very trackable.
So far, these E63s' are setting records unheard of with previous AMG models (that is, apart from the AMG GTR). Here is one from Car and Drivers 2017 lightning lap https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...p-2017-feature
Wolfman, hope you enjoy your E63. Brilliant machine. A friend has an E63s with Renntech upgrades. Car is actually frightening.
Just please keep posting in this space. You always provide valuable insights.
Thanks for the compliment! My interest for the S-Class hasn't diminished and I look forward to hearing about the experience of others with their new 450s/560s
This is a good time to be a car enthusiast. The advances in tech is so rapid. So many cool cars and cool tech.
I admit I am biased towards German cars because I have experienced their capabilities at the limit. Having a fast car is fun but a safe car is more important...
Our lease was up on our 2015 S550 and I had been pondering, like others, what move to make. New S-Class (450 or 560) or switch it up for a different brand. After trying out the Tesla Model S (P100D), Porsche Panamera 4S, BMW 750 or Alpina B7, No Audi as the A8 is EOL, we ended up with another MB.
For the S-Class, the S560 was the only choice as I like the power of the engine and a well equipped interior, something that wasn't in any 450 models. But dealers had less than ideal models in stock (except lots of the somewhat undesirable (to me) Ruby Black/mahogany launch editions). Since MB is pushing the S450 with good rates and allocations while starving the S560 allocations and worse rates, it meant a February/March car at a higher price point for essentially the same car we are driving today.
Added to that annoyance came my wife's desire to have a smaller car. The SL fits her like a glove. So all said and done, we ended up with a 2018 E-Class
To me, the E-Class is somewhat a lesser S-Class that car clearly lacks the elegance of the exterior design and material quality of the S-class interior, especially with the exclusive Nappa, so the focus on this car was driving experience.
So here is Streamliner's nightmare, a 600 plus horsepower AMG
The car is actually extremely solid, much more than any regular E-Class and a even touch more than the S-Class. Aggressive, fast and extremely capable, it is supposed not to resemble a luxury cruiser.
I really am ready for an EV and the Porsche Mission E is shaping up nicely; this should be a fun car to bridge the time...
Congrats on the stunning new ride. You are a brave man for getting matte paint - btw Dr. Beasley's makes good stuff for matte paint!
Stream,say it isn't so!A LS over an S!Initial reviews are not particularly good.Road/tire noise,lack of refinement,etc.Have you done a thorough test drive of a MY17 or18?My MY17 rides and handles better than my MY15 and the new 9G trans is a vast improvement.Relatively sure MB made suspension upgrades.It was mentioned in website material and the the 17 weighs about 100 lbs. less than the 15,i.e.lighter suspension components.Just returned from 800 mile round trip and it was sublime!Effortless cruising with improved tracking and compliance.Quiet with instant response.Been driving these cars my whole life and it just doesn't get any better.Overcome your objections and stick with the best!Wolf,good luck with the "beast."
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon
Originally Posted by it's good
Stream,say it isn't so!A LS over an S!Initial reviews are not particularly good.Road/tire noise,lack of refinement,etc.Have you done a thorough test drive of a MY17 or18?My MY17 rides and handles better than my MY15 and the new 9G trans is a vast improvement.Relatively sure MB made suspension upgrades.It was mentioned in website material and the the 17 weighs about 100 lbs. less than the 15,i.e.lighter suspension components.Just returned from 800 mile round trip and it was sublime!Effortless cruising with improved tracking and compliance.Quiet with instant response.Been driving these cars my whole life and it just doesn't get any better.Overcome your objections and stick with the best!Wolf,good luck with the "beast."
Well, you said it and I agree. There are some truly excellent luxury sedans on the market, all with their own high and low points. I’ve been looking and reading and talking and driving, to the point where I feel I have an excellent understanding of just what is available and what is on the horizon, and no matter how I try to spin this thing, I always come back to the S Class. And, I also know that it is easier to dissect the car you own, as opposed to those you merely test drive. Who knows what additional foibles & gremlins will expose themselves in another brand or another model, once you finally live with a car for a period of time?
I have a new S560 on order. I know it will come with things I’m not happy with, but overall, I believe it is my best choice.
Many thanks for the compliments! It is definitely a very different experience. The car just has endless power but can't be mistaken for an S-Class. As I enjoy the benefit of the AMG I can also say that while driving in a different model I realize just how good the S-Class is with its refinements, ride comfort and better interior. The W222 is simply understated elegance inside, out. That said, that AMG is good at everything
Streamliner, the areas of issue are small quibbles compared to the whole package. The S560 is the improved version of the S550 in every aspect other than maybe some color choices. I frankly wouldn't know of any car that would be a better fit for you Plus it's a great value (unlike AMG's which have higher lease rates and sell at lesser discount)
The 2018 S class' will be the best yet; new 4.0 (still matching the gobs of trq rom the 4.7), the amazing 9G from the '17's, and tasteful refinements in/out.
I was shocked. I went to the Zoo today with a friend and I drove my S550, he has also ridden in my new AMG Wagon, he said I like this car better than your Wagon. I'm like what. I payed 60 grand for my S550 and like double that for my Wagon, although the S550 is 3 years old and the Wagon is brand new. But ya the S550 and S560 are a no brainer car to get over the competition, they are in a league of there own.
Well, after being mentioned here twice, I guess I should say something. Congratulations, Wolf. It’s not my dream car and probably not yours, but I certainly do understand the idea of wanting a change and I hope you enjoy your new ride.
I sent Dietmar Exler an email, asking if I could special order a new S560 without the Pano Roof, since the car is now available that way in Germany. I told him I would be happy to pay a special order charge and wait as long as need be. As I knew, the answer arrived today and it was “NO.” Virtually anything I ever ask them for, the answer is always the same, NO!
Anyway, I have a new S560 on order, but I will probably not get it. I may do the exact opposite of what you did and I may go back to Lexus. Today, they sent me ordering info on the new LS. Lots of great interior and exterior colors and the frigging glass roof is OPTIONAL! I probably won’t be happy with the new LS, but I’m not happy with my current S550 and won’t be happy with a new S560, especially knowing that moon roof versions exist across the pond, but that we lowly Americans are not worthy. So, I may make a big change as well. Whatever, I will hope that all of this new competition for the S Class will bring them around to being more accommodating to their long time customers—but I’m not holding my breath!
I just came across the new Lexus RX and this one takes the cake. It makes the LS500 look like a beauty queen. What is Lexus thinking? Horrendous!
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I just came across the new Lexus RX and this one takes the cake. It makes the LS500 look like a beauty queen. What is Lexus thinking? Horrendous!
I completely agree. I used to really like the RX, but they went absolutely CARTOON with it a few years ago, to the point where I question the sanity of anyone driving one. This photo is of the new RXL, which is an extended model, to accommodate a third row. Now, the design is a DISTORTED CARTOON! Right up there with the long gone Pontiac Aztec. As for the new LS, I must say that it is growing on me, but I don’t see one in my future, at least not this time around.
Since Tesla Model S P100D was in our selection process and excluded, we still receive some updates/deals from our local Tesla guys. Just got an lease offer from for a nicely loaded Tesla Model X P100D, 24 months/10k for under $1300! $12k down which is bout $5k more than their normal required down payment. But normal lease rates for this $145k car are near $2200!
This is quite cheap. Is this would have been a Model S, I would grab it for an extra car
12-01-2017, 11:33 PM
